Defenders of Ford hear me out please.

[catsailor]

I have purchased Five (5) Ford cars so far, driven these Five over 650,000 miles and I will buy more Ford cars as long as my dealer is Academy Ford because at days end my dealer has kept me and my cars running. Being in sales means, no car = no money and this affair started in 1990 with a Ford Taurus.

 

When it came time to buy my C Max (took delivery Sept 24 th 2012) the first car off the truck to my dealership I had not driven or ridden in the car. All I knew was what I read in press releases. I ruled out the Prius V but I could not fathom what magic Ford did to beat the mileage figures of the Prii. Heavier car, more HP and more frontal resistance to drag.

 

So I figured if the car got 40-43 mpg I would be happy. I learned to drive this car, my first Hybrid and I get 45-47 mpg in the fall and summer time. Taught myself how to drive a hybrid. I am very happy with my purchase too.

 

BUT you guys that keep defending Ford for their massive F Up is beyond me. They knew what they were doing when they tacked on the 47/47/47 label on this car and admitted that they took the ratings from the Fusion drive train which the EPA allowed them to do EXCEPT they also knew that this car had more aero drag than the Fusion and they still decided to tack on the 47 mpg label.

 

Guys, think of what great PR they could of had, had they been truthful off the bat with their mileage claims. The auto journalists would have focused on the positives of the car and not the stupid mileage which Ford claimed were truthful all along. Ford NEVER came clean to admit that they never tested the C Max until they were put under pressure. I bet it was not somebody in the engineering dept. that made this call, go find some VP of marketing and hang him to the cross.

 

George Costanza said it best "Its not a lie Jerry if you believe it to be true" Ford believed the mileage of the C Max to be the same as the Fusions...NO LIE and just plain dumb ass move.

 

So I am really happy with my C Max and feel for those that still have not figured out the car. 13B07 changes have been nothing short of fantastic for me and I hope Susanne with her Gas Pods help me even further on hwy efficiency improvements. I'll take the $550 check cause Yes at some early point in owning the C Max last winter I did not know if I would ever get 47 mpg per tank. Now I know I can do it and have done it more than once or twice. But in my book Ford got greedy and got caught, tarnished the rep of a great car, they could have easily under-stated the mileage and over delivered too. Greed is a bad thing.

 

Now go ahead and flame me to death. I can take the heat.

 

 

 

[armoredsaint]

no flaming here  - they stretched the truth on mileage and they're now offering money back to buyers - but i do wonder if you need to sign a waiver to not sue them if you take the cash?

 

i drive my C-Max like like a regular person (speed a lot and heavy on the pedal)  only get 36-38 MPG.

Edited September 29, 2013 by armoredsaint

[Laurel]

Catsailor what you say is very true.  I love so many features in our C-Max i.e. visibility, high seats, pep, the look of the car, the mileage compared to my old car.  Like you I think they could have emphasized all of the good things without putting their foot into it like they did.  I have always thought that they made a big mistake from day one.  We knew when we test drove our car in late Fall last year that the mileage was not going to pan out to be what they cited.  But we still loved the car enough to buy it.

[fotomoto]

I, too, expected lower than 47mpg since I rarely obtain EPA ratings in any vehicle and had read the initial reports.  Thus while making purchase decisions, I lowered my estimate to about 42mpg  (my fuelly is rising rapidly with the ending of summer).    If the current ratings would have been in effect, I would have probably lowered my estimate to the upper 30's.  That's a figure that would have dropped the CMax off my shopping radar.  

[DaveofDurham]

George Costanza also said, "Shrinkage!!!"

Ford could have made the same claim about the 47mpg.

[C-MaxSea]

Scratch me, and you would find about 67% negative on Ford, but that is not the point I care to discuss – this is a C-Max Forum.  Flaming Ford (people) for the same thing over & over gets redundant and probably destroys the reputation of the C-Max more than Ford.  In your case you at least have spoken favorably about your C-Max, but even that is likely lost since most casual observers here do not read more than half of any post and are only left with a general (in this case more likely negative) impression.
 
Perception is everything in our modern messed up culture.  Did Ford “ ____up”? ( “It depends on what the meaning of the words “ ____ up” is.”)  None of us really know, and if they did “____ up”, none of us here know the particulars, or even whether it will matter.  We can “bet” each other until we are blue in the face and no one is served the better. 
 
Do we discuss & analyze our C-Max here, and share experiences (pro & con), or do we directly or indirectly contribute to its demise – hopefully the former.  I would like it to ‘sink or swim’ on its’ merits, not Ford’s. (silly statement, impossible, I know)  Its demise would be a shame IMHO, especially if I contributed.  I can help or I can hurt its’ reputation here. Yes, I have my issues with some of the features, and discuss them here openly, but on balance...............
 
All cars & car companies have warts and blemishes; pros & cons;  shoulda, coulda, wouldas……………. The list is endless.  And those nuances can take on the character of each of us.  Personally, I like my “wiggly” DTE readout (it’s a hoot to watch the computer try to guess my next move) – others don’t like the "wiggly" DTE readout.  It’s just plain fun to discuss.
 
Yust getting a tiny bit tired of the Ford flaming side show here.  Nevertheless, I say go for it.  Speculate and crucify, sounds like fun. 
(I’m sure not going to buy one of those dang Fords again.)
 
Just my 2 cents, trying to look forward rather than back,
 
Kind regards,
Nick 

Edited September 30, 2013 by C-MaxSea

[Wingrider01]

Been driving and leasing fords since 1972, I may whine about the unfulfilled promises on the c-max but I will never desert ford for a lot of reasons, the primary one being they never took the dole bailout but stood on their own. I respect that and if I actually got rid of my c-max it would be for another ford, I won;t let the department car go since it is currently a ford and the replacement is a chevy. I don;t do foreign SDT's no matter what. they can pry my ford from my cold dead hands.

[Laurel]

Okay Nick I see what you are saying.  I never think about the people that pop in briefly and then leave with their minds made up in a bad way after just reading a sentence or two.  It isn't the same as family discussing over the dinner table.  I will keep in mind your words of wisdom.  I want Ford and the C-Max to succeed.  Thanks for a different and better perspective.

[BobJustBob]

"You never get a second chance to make a first impression"

 

Thousands of potential Ford customers will never consider Ford because the news is out that Ford lied about the gas mileage of the C-Max.  Period.  Those are lost sales that Ford will never win back.

 

There is nothing more valuable to a company than its reputation.  Ford should have considered this very seriously before deciding to "stretch the truth" about the gas mileage of the C-Max.

[Jus-A-CMax]

Great post Nick.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[ptjones]

"You never get a second chance to make a first impression"

 

Thousands of potential Ford customers will never consider Ford because the news is out that Ford lied about the gas mileage of the C-Max.  Period.  Those are lost sales that Ford will never win back.

 

There is nothing more valuable to a company than its reputation.  Ford should have considered this very seriously before deciding to "stretch the truth" about the gas mileage of the C-Max.

My first tank I got 47mpg in Oct. of last year and then it stated to go down with the temps. Which caused me to come up with the Grill Covers. I don't think Ford needed to come out with refund check but I'm going to use mine to improve it. :)   Paul

Edited September 30, 2013 by ptjones

[Testdriver]

Ford has placated me with $550. I'm over it  ;)

[ScubaDadMiami]

George Costanza also said, "Shrinkage!!!"

Ford could have made the same claim about the 47mpg.

For those that don't know, here's the reference.

[Red Twin]

I am still really happy with my C-Max, I went into my purchase knowing that I would never see 47 MPG, and if I saw around 40, I would be very happy.  So my Averages for April - Sept are:

 

MPG - 42.5 with a High of 46.8 and a Low of 35.7.

Miles per day -39.3 High of 144.6 and a Low of 16.6

S/mile - 0 .079 High of 0.096 and a Low of 0.073

Fuel Price - 3.35/gallon  High of 3.54/gallon and a Low of 3.16/gallon

 

I am "Happy Happy Happy"

[hybridbear]

I agree with both catsailor, C-MaxSea and BobJustBob. Ford made a serious mistake with what they did. I have been saying since January 2013 that Ford took a calculated risk with their C-Max EPA figures and with their heavy promotion of the 47/47/47 MPG instead of actually promoting the merits of the C-Max and Fusion Hybrid. That risk backfired and has cost them millions of dollars.

 

While we can speculate about how or why these things happened or about how many people might have lost their jobs at Ford because of this goof, that doesn't do much good. While I'd really like to know what went on behind closed doors, unfortunately we'll never know. However, I don't believe for one moment the baloney that has been in some quotes from Ford engineers claiming that they "didn't know" the C-Max would have lower real world MPG because of its aerodynamics. When your company sells directly to consumers there can be far-reaching effects to the seemingly small decisions made every day. The seemingly small decision at the time to not test the C-Max but just use the FFH EPA numbers has had far-reaching effects for Ford and has cost them. Hopefully their internal culture will adapt and learn from this mistake and they will use this learning experience to make their future hybrid vehicles even better. 

[Jus-A-CMax]

Red Twin - awesome attitude, glad you're enjoying the car.

 

Whilst we're all arguing about who lied, who goofed up, who lost their bonus (god help Ford if they fire people over this - its tough enough to find any part time job etc)...I think everyone has lost sight of what Ford has done to resolve the MPG issue for some (don't add me to the MPG issue because I HAVE NONE) and contrast this with another company who had more than a decade of hybrid building knowledge, namely:

 

1. The continued and steady improvements of the CMax FE with 3.5 (we know they sneaked that one in) and then the 13b07 update.

2. Unleashing and removing the 63mph EV limit. This one is HUGE! Remember all the "we cannot do this, the battery is not big enough...the EV motor can't handle it...the sky is going to fall)...but to Ford's credit - the overcame whatever technical challenges they had. Contrast this to the other company > 10 yrs of hybrid driving, they are still stuck on the 40 or 45 mph EV limit.

 

If I owned the other car and see what Ford has done with the CMax just on the EV, I would be peeved.

 

As Nick said, argue all you want about the past, who lied, goofed up, fired....but I'm with him, turn around and lets look forward :)

Edited September 30, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[DaveofDurham]

How does 3.6.2 help fuel economy?

[Laurel]

Jus I think we all should try to be positive in life, but I do think it should be okay to vent here on the forum.  We all have had our ups and downs with our beloved C-Maxes.  Because we mutter under our breath cursing Ford at times doesn't mean that we are anti Ford.  It means that we have an issue and we can often get info. here on the forum if we scream out in frustration.  My thread about "unbelievably bad mileage" perhaps should have had a different title so that visitors don't get a bad impression, but I got great info. and learned that cranking up my defrost was the same as cranking up my AC.  I want to be able to vent without being too politically correct always.  However I would defend Ford and the C-Max to any ill informed person that make any disparaging remarks.  Down go my gloves if anyone other than C-Max family makes unfounded comments about Ford or the C-Max, but I am not going to blindly defend their mistakes.

[fbov]

... Down go my gloves if anyone other than C-Max family makes unfounded comments about Ford or the C-Max...

Family is like that...

[Jus-A-CMax]

How does 3.6.2 help fuel economy?

 

Actually, let me take it back - it was the version prior to 3.6.2, 3.5. Search the forum, Adair spoke with one of the Ford engineers as well as other posts about that "1st" upgrade. Yep, thinking back now 3.6.2 was the last one we all "self" updated and the 3.5 was the one installed by the Ford SAs..thats the one they sneaked in the much needed MPG update.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[C-MaxSea]

"You never get a second chance to make a first impression"   Could not agree more, Bob, that is a fact, and a five dollar bill will always be a five dollar bill.  Points:  Most don't even know what a C-Max is yet - shall we keep dumping on Ford here in this forum and spoil it for them too? It is always possible to redeem somewhat with an ounce of forgiveness.  Thankfully, there are still a few folks out there who look beyond the "first impression".

 

Thousands of potential Ford customers will never consider Ford because the news is out that Ford lied about the gas mileage of the C-Max.  Period. With regard to "lied", no, not period, rather speculation / opinion. Oh that's right, guilty until proven innocent.  I'll speculate guilty, of something at least; I'll go with following the rules to unfair advantage; will that work for anybody?  Yes, way too bad they goofed up the numbers, intentional or not, somewhere in the pipeline.

 

Those are lost sales that Ford will never win back.  Absolutely, no argument about some lost sales.  In business, not all sales are desirable sales.  Knee jerk / "first impression" sales are often the weakest / least desirable for big ticket items.  C-Max sales were actually up 12% in August over July, we still have not seen the full impact of the ratings reduction, but the facts we have today are not negative. On occasion in business like politics, even bad news can spur attention & sales - doubt it here, but conceivable.  In addition, sometimes deferred sales are better than immediate sales.

 

There is nothing more valuable to a company than its reputation.  Ford should have considered this very seriously before deciding to "stretch the truth" about the gas mileage of the C-Max.

Certainly reputation is important.  Ford has one of the highest, if not the highest brand loyalty in the business, and has been attempting to address reputation issues admirably over the last decade. They have a long way to go yet, especially at the dealer level.  Polk has their loyalty at 65% leading the field, sales are strong, the stock is up 70% yoy - not exactly negative numbers.  Will these numbers fall, very possibly, but maybe not.  All we can do is speculate, new numbers for Sept. in a day or two - I'll speculate that it is not worth losing sleep over.  I think Ford is looking long term, and long term involves a million short term decisions along the way - some good, some bad.

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2013/06/05/car-buyers-are-increasingly-loyal-to-their-car-brands/

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20130908/RETAIL03/309099957/c-max-sales-holding-up-despite-revision-of-mpg#axzz2gPbFubTC

 

Kind regards & please no offence intended,

Hoping this is all a "tempest in a teapot",

Not defending Ford as much as trying to look at it from all angles,

Nevertheless, tiring repetition of the same opinions,

Can't wait for next weeks edition of this,

 

Nick

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2013 by C-MaxSea

[Adair]

Here it is Dave and Jus...

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/2459-so-ford-did-tweak-things/

 

This was in early-mid-July after 3.5.1 upgrade.

[Jus-A-CMax]

Here it is Dave and Jus...

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/2459-so-ford-did-tweak-things/

 

This was in early-mid-July after 3.5.1 upgrade.

 

That was a GREAT FIND and TIDBIT by the way, would not have seen it anywhere except here :)

[DaveofDurham]

For those that don't know, here's the reference.

Scuba -

 

Thanks for posting the link.  For a show about nothing there sure was a lot of action between when George was exposed and when he made his shrinkage claim.

[DaveofDurham]

Here it is Dave and Jus...

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/2459-so-ford-did-tweak-things/

 

This was in early-mid-July after 3.5.1 upgrade.

 

Adair - You are now both a Moderator and an Archivist.  Thanks.