Recall Perspective

[C-MaxSea]

Love that word perspective.  Hate the word perception - so very often wrong.

 

For recall perspective (and 'hot off the press'), here is my dump on BMW, Toyota, Nissan, Chrysler, Honda ...........:

 

Bad brakes, air bags, accelerator parts, suspension parts ........................ just your everyday crashy kinds of stuff.  (and all we get are fuel efficiency improvements, nav improvements, entertainment improvements ....... - oh, & the headliner thingy for some.  Our C-Max recall life is so very good - so far, especially considering all of the new components.)

 

http://www.inautonews.com/recall-roundup-bmw-vehicles-for-braking-fail-in-the-u-s

 

http://www.inautonews.com/over-180000-cars-recalled-in-china-by-bmw-hyundai-and-kia

 

http://www.inautonews.com/nissan-recalls-almost-910000-vehicles-globally-on-accelerator-sensor-issue

 

http://www.inautonews.com/chrysler-recalls-667000-vehicles-beginning-with-august

 

http://www.inautonews.com/toyota-issues-recall-for-sienna-vehicles

 

http://www.inautonews.com/recall-of-over-400000-vehicles-in-china

 

the list is endless,

 

Nick

(Uncle Alan sent me this list :secret: , just kidding)

 

(PS  I don't have anything against any of these fine companies.)

Edited October 2, 2013 by C-MaxSea

[Jus-A-CMax]

What! You're dumping on the other car companies, surely you jest Nick....why Ford is the EVIL one here judging by the consensus.

 

Careful now, you'll may accused of being Uncle Alan's shill...jus as I may be accused of shilling the MPGs for the CMax and Uncle Alan too... :secret:

 

Psssst....good post, adds some reality and context to the other thread  :salute:

 

 

PS I know there are a ton of Prii recalls as well which you could have easily thrown in. You know, hybrid to hybrid.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[Noah Harbinger]

Reliability surveys are a better measurement of a vehicle. Unfortunately the C-Max doesn't do well in that regard. (Of course the actual survey places so much weight on qualitative disapprovals that it's hard to get a sense of how much of it is due to "mechanical defects vs. personal preferences".)

 

I certainly hope the second-year numbers recover significantly. 

[C-MaxSea]

Jus, never got back to you on the dictator-in-training. 

 

Anyway, Dennis, Jong Un & I (three peas in a pod you know), if it’s not shooting hoops, it’s bar hopping ........ drinks, ice cream, drinks, ice cream ……….   after three rounds of Soju at the bar, we can sure come up with some juicy torture treatments - Unnie (what Rodsy & I call him) thinks I’m a little soft – huh, can you believe that!  BTW, Unnie sets a mean pick, but is tough to feed on the roll (a little slow).  He sets the rim really low though (home court), and we generally let him win; he is the real deal you know! 

Nick

[Noah Harbinger]

What! You're dumping on the other car companies, surely you jest Nick....why Ford is the EVIL one here judging by the consensus.

 

Careful now, you'll may accused of being Uncle Alan's shill...jus as I may be accused of shilling the MPGs for the CMax and Uncle Alan too... :secret:

 

Psssst....good post, adds some reality and context to the other thread  :salute:

 

 

PS I know there are a ton of Prii recalls as well which you could have easily thrown in. You know, hybrid to hybrid.

 

There's no reason to cheerlead. Find alternative measurements and perspectives (satisfaction surveys, for example). But turning a blind eye to problems only justifies not fixing them.  

[C-MaxSea]

Reliability surveys are a better measurement of a vehicle. Unfortunately the C-Max doesn't do well in that regard. (Of course the actual survey places so much weight on qualitative disapprovals that it's hard to get a sense of how much of it is due to "mechanical defects vs. personal preferences".)

 

I certainly hope the second-year numbers recover significantly. 

Certainly agree to an extent, Noah.  'Reliability surveys' can be extremely subjective, however, and as you say with great "weight (placed) on qualitative disapprovals.........", an almost impossible gauntlet for the C-Max hybrid.  Nick

 

PS  No one here is turning a blind eye to C-Max issues, rather trying to do the opposite, trying to focus on the C-Max rather than Ford.

Edited October 2, 2013 by C-MaxSea

[fotomoto]

I signed up for and participate on truedelta.com    The CMax is taking a huge beating on reliability because of the software updates and headliner recall.   

[C-MaxSea]

That is really sad to hear, Foto, and amazing at the same time - qualitative improvements and get bashed - sad.  IMHO the 'bar' set for the C-Max is one of the highest out there - a shooting gallery with a florescent orange decoy.  Just MHO.  Nick

Edited October 2, 2013 by C-MaxSea

[fotomoto]

Yeah, most folks are calling these reliability issues.  I think of it like this:  losing 2nd gear in your transmission is a serious reliability issue but getting a software update to make is shift smoother or get better FE isn't.

 

I'd like to know more about the JD power survey where it says, "two-thirds of the reported problems in the Initial Quality Study are related to bad design, instead of factory goofs. A manufacturing mistake can usually be fixed, but design problems are much harder to quickly remedy."  What are the bad designs?  Dead battery syndrome.   What else?

[MichaelM]

I got a request to go to the J.D. Power website to fill out customer satisfaction survey. Got to first page where I filled out make and model, then the page froze and kicked me out. When I went back to try and finish the survey, it said 'You have already completed this survey'. Not quite sure how that scored.

 

I wrote to J.D. Powers and told them, if there were more people than me who have had the same problem, that the veracity of their survey was questionable.

[ScubaDadMiami]

I just completed the survey, about a week ago.

[Laurel]

What flubs and what flaws?  http://www.evworld.com/focus.cfm?cid=157

[Jus-A-CMax]

There's no reason to cheerlead. Find alternative measurements and perspectives (satisfaction surveys, for example). But turning a blind eye to problems only justifies not fixing them.  

Why is this directed at me...this should have been directed at Nick.

 

As I said, if I want to hear about this ongoing crap-dump on Ford, I go to the next Firefox tab and see the Prii-forum-boyz do a better, funier job.

 

Jus stop dumping in the house you live in, thats all. After a while everyone notices the smell...even the drive bys ;)

Edited October 3, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[Laurel]

The reason this is a good forum is that we can politely and honestly say what we think.  If we say Ford messed up on many things that is what we have experienced and we are not dumping on Ford Jus.  We aren't moderators who have to be politically correct.  We are members who have lived through the first year of Ford bringing out a new car with all the hiccups that have come along with it.  If we have to stop being honest, I will exit this forum.  I do not like having to tread lightly because I will be seen as a disloyal Ford buyer.

[Jus-A-CMax]

The reason this is a good forum is that we can politely and honestly say what we think.  If we say Ford messed up on many things that is what we have experienced and we are not dumping on Ford Jus.  We aren't moderators who have to be politically correct.  We are members who have lived through the first year of Ford bringing out a new car with all the hiccups that have come along with it.  If we have to stop being honest, I will exit this forum.  I do not like having to tread lightly because I will be seen as a disloyal Ford buyer.

 

Yes and I have a right to reply to things as I see, jus as well. Thats my Ying to the Yang. Ping to the Pong...no pun intended. I have not censored anything, but Nick and I can comment on the negativity posts as well, its our right too. Should we both jus shut up? If everyone wants to keep going on, just think about what I said in the last sentence I posted on unlucky #13...think about it.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[Laurel]

Well I can agree about you not having to shut up, but you are a moderator who has a role that we don't.  It is different if I tell Nick or Noah they are full of baloney.  If you say it, it is in my eyes an order or strong suggestion that is to be obeyed.  You aren't just another guy or the forum.  You are an authority figure.  My lips are zipped on the subject now that I have said my piece.

PS It is the last sentence in unlucky post #13 that made my blood pressure go up.  Visitors who are sincere in information seeking on the C-Max want to read the facts and not a bunch of "oh well all is good now and Ford just made some innocent boo boos".

Edited October 3, 2013 by Laurel

[Jus-A-CMax]

Ok....mods on forums participate in the forum as well. I do alot of threads and posts. Our role is to basically to monitor for trolls aka KBF KBF and also to move dead threads and/or posts. We are part of the community. I don't think I told anyone here they are baloney either, afaik...and all I am saying is tone it down with all the negative dumping but again, I reiterate, I have not modded anyone's posts about what they said either....if the forum wants to head in this direction, so be it.

 

Also in the past, we had such negativity and we all tried to be positive to counter act.

 

Its not attacking anyone's honesty, baloney or whatever anyone care to think I may be poking at, I'm not. I rest by my last sentence on Post #13, think about it.

 

Be positive, look forward...what Ford did or did not do, it's done.... :)

 

Now its my turn to zip up.... :flyaway:

 

Peace.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[C-MaxSea]

Peace & Love all.  Jus made a fun post in #2, and Noah kind of took a cheap shot in # 6 suggesting that Jus and/or I or someone was turning a blind eye to C-Max imperfections/issues which is simply not the case.  Neither Jus nor I are the least bit interested in sweeping any C-Max issues under the rug, both of us have introduced and/or discussed imperfections/issues all of the time as our experience dictates.  Moreover, Jus has even had direct contact with Ford through the Tech session or whatever it was to give his feedback on C-Max issues - it does not get any better than that.  I for one understand Jus's frustration at that post. Nick

 

PS  That is a great link Laurel, nice find, thanks for sharing: http://www.evworld.com/focus.cfm?cid=157  

       (Shows how the JDPowers stuff can warp perceptions.)

Edited October 3, 2013 by C-MaxSea

[catsailor]

FWIW Laurel I am in your corner, a life long Ford client (5 cars and +650,000 miles) I bought the Max with a low bar expectation since I knew the technology was going to be very new. BUT what I truly did not expect was Ford stepping up and making continuous improvements along the way. Ford scouched the pouch as they say but they are trying to FIX the issues in as timely a manner as they can...this is a pleasant surprise to me. I still feel for those that have battery and FE issues. I think the issues of the early adapters should be stated and the fixes and improvements stated. I for one thought and still believe that Ford LIED about what the car could do from a FE standpoint to begin with and this focused a lot more of the publics attention on the short comings of the car...... I do believe that 47/47/47 is very doable but NOT to an everyday driver...how do you convey that in print without offending folks. Anyway I think all and all this place is managed very well and it remains civil. I hope you stay and contribute to the dialog.

 

BTW my first true HWY test of Gas Pods for 45 miles driven at +55 mph :)

[Adair]

http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/02/news/companies/tesla-stock-fire-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[Laurel]

Interesting Adair.  A good point is made by you posting that.  One bad incident and the kingdom is lost.

[DaveofDurham]

I got a request to go to the J.D. Power website to fill out customer satisfaction survey. Got to first page where I filled out make and model, then the page froze and kicked me out. When I went back to try and finish the survey, it said 'You have already completed this survey'. Not quite sure how that scored.

 

I wrote to J.D. Powers and told them, if there were more people than me who have had the same problem, that the veracity of their survey was questionable.

We did the J.D. Power satisfaction survey for the C-Max months ago.  Then a few days ago we got a message asking us to do another C-Max related survey.  I just did this survey which was almost entirely about how we paid for/financed our vehicle and how satisfired we were with the payment/financing process.  The only C-Max questions were - Do you own a C-Max?  How satisfied were you with your dealer?  How satisfied are you with your C-Max?

[Testdriver]

The problem with the JD Power survey is that 1 report of disappointing MPG or buggy MFT is equal to 1 Model S becoming engulfed in flames. There is no weighting for the magnitude of each issue, so it's not a very useful rating system, especially when the difference between the top rated car and the bottom rated car is about 1 issue reported per car.

 

I DO think the C-Max has some issues: the dead battery issue that seems to affect a decent number of C-Maxes, and the MPG controversy are both decent knocks against it. Most of the other frequently reported problems seem very minor, imo. Of course, the vast majority of C-Max owners who have not experienced the dead battery issue are highly satisfied with the vehicle, even if they are mildy disappointed in the MPG. That, for some reason, is not reflected in the JD Power "quality" ratings.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Testdriver