Jus Another Gas Pod

[ptjones]

Paul, I am surprised you have not done something similar with A to B runs to see if your gas pods vs non gas pods stats reflect a similar result or better since you have the additional cover for the grill and wheels. Would you care to do some runs here for the forum? Also what distance are you running your Pods it from the back edge (can't recall if I or others asked this before hand...hmmmh).

I'll do some testing with/without GasPods and wheel covers on my 14 mile test loop when I return home to GA next week. My pods are 1" from the back of the rear roof line. Will be glad to report back on Forum.

 

Also need to do some some testing to determine what is the ideal coolant temp for the best fuel economy. My testing shows that the ICE update has caused the coolant temp to increase by 10 degrees. I don't know whether Ford is making the engine run leaner which would explain the improvement in fuel economy on the highway. I'm going to video the shutters to see if they stay closed to a higher temp.

 

Will keep you posted with new findings. And yes I'm lucky my other half puts up with my experiments!

 

Glad you're feeling better and hope things work out with the car.

paul

[Jus-A-CMax]

I started with 1" and moved it back to 1 1/2" which seemed better according to my results as I had a 78.4 MPG run on that fateful day...then ka-boom. So you'll have to run with it for the time being - be very interested in what you find Paul. If you can stack it with stock, stock with covers and stock with covers and pods, that would be nice to see the trending, if any.

 

It will be a while before I am back in the cockpit - not gonna be quick and I have not decided how its going to swing either. If I end up with the repair route, I have to baseline again jus to see how the fixed is fairing and if it effects the battery and MPG - so might be good to get more data points.

 

I jus want an open discussions about these Pods. If this is the only place Aerohance can get a fair and reasonable shake with us CMaxers, so be it.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Jus-A-CMax

[wab]

This is really going to be interesting this winter with the colder air and 13B07.

[Jus-A-CMax]

This is really going to be interesting this winter with the colder air and 13B07.

Thats the beauty of living in this scr*wed up state called California, we still have beautiful weather and little rain...but God help us when it rains, we don't know how to drive when the road is wet...we only practice wet road driving and it's small patch only - after we wash our cars on the driveway. I lie...some of us have more training - at the local car wash. I think catsailor will get the cold and same with Brother Mike up in SF before I get the coldies.

[mtb9153]

Thats the beauty of living in this scr*wed up state called California, we still have beautiful weather and little rain...but God help us when it rains, we don't know how to drive when the road is wet...we only practice wet road driving and it's small patch only - after we wash our cars on the driveway. I lie...some of us have more training - at the local car wash. I think catsailor will get the cold and same with Brother Mike up in SF before I get the coldies.

That's right Jus, if winter rains ever start up again and that can be anytime now, usually our rainy season is end of October to end of March or April.  We sorely need a wet winter or next summer we will have a bad water shortage.  I remember one April I was with the family at your end of the state visiting the Mouse House (a.k.a. Disneyland), it was cold, bitterly cold and it rained as well.  SoCal usually is very temperate sort of the Hawaii of the west coast, but it can get cold and rainy in winter.  With global warming its a crap shoot any more.  This week on Tuesday we had a system push through with it's target set right on the SouthBay which is rare since most systems push through to our north from the Gulf of Alaska and we get the spiraling bands of clouds and moisture spinning off as it moves east.  This system appeared very promising with plenty of moisture laden clouds passing over head, but we didn't get a drop.  Instead it pushed east and ran into warm moisture coming out of the gulf of mexico.  Forming a huge front stretching from southeastTexas to Michigan dumping lots of rain and high winds and hail.  Maybe some of you experienced this today as I was watching the reports on the Weather Channel.  Crazy times we are living in.

[mtb9153]

Frank, thought has crossed my mind taping long pieces of different colored 1/4" ribbon on top, sides and back of car to see air flow pattern. Will see if I can make some time to experiment.

 

Anyone have connections to someone with a wind tunnel!?! LOL

Here in the SillyCorn Valley at the NASA Ames Research Center they have a huge 40' x 80' x 32' wind tunnel just sitting there until NASA needs it for something.  When my Father worked there back in 1966-1980 I used to get tours inside.  They could taxi a aircraft inside from one end which opened to the outside.  Park it in the test area and do a slip stream airflow measurements off the aero surfaces.  It is cool stuff.  I wish I could get permission to take Maxus in there to testing with the GasPods, we could finally put the speculation to rest as to how much functionality they bring to the CMax.  I wonder if I still know anybody at the tunnel I could push for  test run? 

[Jus-A-CMax]

That! Would be a hell of a coup if you can pull it off Brother Mike :)

[mtb9153]

For those interested in a little aero testing, I can upon a very nice set of articles, one of which shows how vortex generators can reduce drag.

 

The idea is to set up the back of your car for a "tuft test" wherein you tape tufts of yarn to the car surfaces and then photograph them at speed to see what the airflow is doing. 

- Laminar flow regions, the tufts lie flat and straight.

- Turbulent regions they bend and twist in many directions.

 

The link explains this all very well, including a practical analysis of rear window turbulence and the effect of vortex generators at the rear edge of the roof, 2 ft. ahead of the turbulent region. My first thought was if anyone had done this with a C-Max, because I like to understand a problem before trying to fix it. My next thought was how busy I am this weekend...

 

Any chance someone's aready tufted their C-Max?

 

HAve fun,

Frank

I have been toying with doing this and putting my GoPro on a boom rig to allow for external video shots of the laminar flow over the pods.  Maybe I'll work on this over the weekend?

[mtb9153]

That! Would be a hell of a coup if you can pull it off Brother Mike :)

Yes wouldn't it, I think I'll start with doing some laminar flow tests using my GoPro camera and work my way up to the wind tunnel test if possible?  And that's a BIG "IF"  NASA is not in the habit of renting out time for their expensive toys to just anyone.

[fbov]

Two comments...

 

We mortals can't afford the hourly run-time cost of something like NASA Ames, much less set-up costs... Lockheed, however, has a low speed wind tunnel in Smryna, GA, with a contact.

 

I, too, and thinking of ways to tuft Porter this weekend and dashcam the results. I'm thinking I can mount the dashcam on a tripod out the window of the wife's car, to get a roof angle.

 

FWIW, I was only planning to tuft from the start of the rear wheel well, back, across the tailgate and bumper, as the research I've seen indicates that's where you get the most payback. If anyone had removable mods, like grill covers, wheel covers or magnetic GasPods, show us with and without (tufting the appropriate area of the car of course)!

 

I will also ask you to look at something on your cars for me. I left the camera home, so pics to follow. I put a straight edge on my roofline next to the sat antenna, and there's a nice vertical gap to the lead edge of the hatch. Even with the trail edge flip, the hatch line never gets close to the roofline. I would have expected a continuous roofline transition to the hatch might be beneficial. Take a look at your cars...

 

HAve fun,

Frank

[wab]

Two comments...

 

We mortals can't afford the hourly run-time cost of something like NASA Ames, much less set-up costs... Lockheed, however, has a low speed wind tunnel in Smryna, GA, with a contact.

 

I, too, and thinking of ways to tuft Porter this weekend and dashcam the results. I'm thinking I can mount the dashcam on a tripod out the window of the wife's car, to get a roof angle.

 

FWIW, I was only planning to tuft from the start of the rear wheel well, back, across the tailgate and bumper, as the research I've seen indicates that's where you get the most payback. If anyone had removable mods, like grill covers, wheel covers or magnetic GasPods, show us with and without (tufting the appropriate area of the car of course)!

 

I will also ask you to look at something on your cars for me. I left the camera home, so pics to follow. I put a straight edge on my roofline next to the sat antenna, and there's a nice vertical gap to the lead edge of the hatch. Even with the trail edge flip, the hatch line never gets close to the roofline. I would have expected a continuous roofline transition to the hatch might be beneficial. Take a look at your cars...

 

HAve fun,

Frank

"on a tripod out the window"

 

Is there a way to get good video out the back or any window?

Sticking something out a window will effect the air flow, = not a good test.

[fbov]

I like the way you're thinking, but read the rest of the sentence; your snippet obfuscates my statement.

 

You can't do a proper tuft test with one car. I'll use a chase car, and hope the camera mount is steady enough that the images are useful. We'll see...

 

HAve fun,

Frank

[wab]

"on a tripod out the window"

 

Is there a way to get good video out the back or any window?

Sticking something out a window will effect the air flow, = not a good test.

 

 

I like the way you're thinking, but read the rest of the sentence; your snippet obfuscates my statement.

 

You can't do a proper tuft test with one car. I'll use a chase car, and hope the camera mount is steady enough that the images are useful. We'll see...

 

HAve fun,

Frank

 

proofread, PROofread, PROOFREAD how many times have I said that to co-workers

 

"of the wife's car"

you got me :worship:

Edited November 1, 2013 by wab

[marshtex2]

In a nutshell, running the numbers with the wonders of an Excel spreadsheet: With gas between $3.50 and $4.00 per gallon, a device (Gas Pod) that costs $50 that gets an 8% improvement in mpg and a car that gets from 40 to 60 mpg without the device, it will take from 7,000 to 11,000 miles for savings through fuel economy to pay off the device.   Worth it?  As miles get bigger a maintenance consideration for the device would add to the effective cost of it.  With the Pods maybe they would need to be re-stuck or could lose one.  The car that gets lower mpg will have to go a shorter distance to pay off the device.

Edited November 3, 2013 by marshtex2

[wab]

In a nutshell, running the numbers with the wonders of an Excel spreadsheet: With gas between $3.50 and $4.00 per gallon, a device (Gas Pod) that costs $50 that gets an 8% improvement in mpg and a car that gets from 40 to 60 mpg without the device, it will take from 7,000 to 11,000 miles for savings through fuel economy to pay off the device.   Worth it?  As miles get bigger a maintenance consideration for the device would add to the effective cost of it.  With the Pods maybe they would need to be re-stuck or could lose one.  The car that gets lower mpg will have to go a shorter distance to pay off the device.

 

8% (is this a marketing # or has it been documented?) seems a little high for a car that spends most of it's time below 55 MPH.

Our car spends most of its time above 55 MPH.

Edited November 3, 2013 by wab

[marshtex2]

wab, that 8% was taken from the starting entry of this thread by Jus-A-CMax on page one.  Sort of a roundup of his best numbers.  Optimistically high perhaps but if it is halved to 4% that would double the miles required for the payout.

Edited November 4, 2013 by marshtex2

[marshtex2]

Hey mtb9153, on page 2 you mentioned being at Disneyland in LA and it got “bitterly cold”.  I started life in California and I’m back again but in between I was several years in Indiana and 30 years in upstate NY.  Man, most Californians don’t know what bitterly cold is, that word just doesn’t fit.  I’ll bet some others would agree.

[Adair]

Hey mtb9153, on page 2 you mentioned being at Disneyland in LA and it got “bitterly cold”.  I started life in California and I’m back again but in between I was several years in Indiana and 30 years in upstate NY.  Man, most Californians don’t know what bitterly cold is, that word just doesn’t fit.  I’ll bet some others would agree.

HAHAHAHA!!! We're in MI and have seen what they think is bitterly cold.....if it's below 70 they are in  Uggs with scarves and gloves!!! 

[Jus-A-CMax]

Hey mtb9153, on page 2 you mentioned being at Disneyland in LA and it got “bitterly cold”.  I started life in California and I’m back again but in between I was several years in Indiana and 30 years in upstate NY.  Man, most Californians don’t know what bitterly cold is, that word just doesn’t fit.  I’ll bet some others would agree.

Try going up Chair 23 to the peak of Mammoth Mountain when its already below zero and add in some HOT (not) wind chill factor to push it into the negative teens and colder...and I do this for :airquote:  fun. Like to go to the snow but won't live there. I do not envy those who live in the north east when those storms barrel thru....or those who live in AK with a CMax ala Don :rockon:

[fbov]

Jus, stop trying to cheer me up...

[Jus-A-CMax]

Jus, stop trying to cheer me up...

...might be time to see The Chech ;)

[mtb9153]

HAHAHAHA!!! We're in MI and have seen what they think is bitterly cold.....if it's below 70 they are in  Uggs with scarves and gloves!!! 

 

Just to set the record straight, the time I was referring to it was unusual weather for the time of the year (April) in SoCal or for that matter NorCal which is my part of the state.  The day I'm referring to it was rainy, cold (below 45 wind factored) and very not April weather for California.  I'll be the first to admit that we Californian's are taken off guard by unusual weather patterns thanks to global warming or what ever it was.  Nicer weather is why we live here and pay the high price for doing so.  My idea of fun in April is riding amusement park rides like Disneyland, but you guys let some of your nasty normal weather patterns for April dump on the west bank that year.   :noobie:  :rockon: Lets see any of the Mid westerners and East coast folks try doing this :skateboard:  :skateboard: in April.  End of story.  :wub2:   

Edited November 4, 2013 by mtb9153

[ptjones]

Now it seems there are several of us that are getting the same 1or so MPG inprovement with GasPods.

Paul

[mtb9153]

Now it seems there are several of us that are getting the same 1or so MPG inprovement with GasPods.

Paul

Paul, as I've always said my MPG started to stabilize and improve from it's poor levels in the mid to upper 30's to my now lower to mid 40's most of the time.  I see no problem recording upper 40's and low 50's regularly if I can continue to brake more efficiently.  Braking seems to be my biggest factor for improving my AvMPG in increments of .1 or more.  With careful braking I watched my numbers go from 41.3 to 44.4 in the course of a few days while driving my daily route from home and back each day.  A good day's commute for me is driving surface streets over my round trip 30 miles and getting back home with either the same AvMPG as I started with or slightly better.  Hope that makes sense?

[ptjones]

Paul, as I've always said my MPG started to stabilize and improve from it's poor levels in the mid to upper 30's to my now lower to mid 40's most of the time.  I see no problem recording upper 40's and low 50's regularly if I can continue to brake more efficiently.  Braking seems to be my biggest factor for improving my AvMPG in increments of .1 or more.  With careful braking I watched my numbers go from 41.3 to 44.4 in the course of a few days while driving my daily route from home and back each day.  A good day's commute for me is driving surface streets over my round trip 30 miles and getting back home with either the same AvMPG as I started with or slightly better.  Hope that makes sense?

I can tell you that my lifetime Brake score is 98% if that is any help.

Paul