Strange, long wooooo sound at steady speeds, ICE on

[FordService]

They exhausted all suggestions related to ANC and the issue persists. At this point I am giving up due to lack of confidence they have any idea what is wrong. I think they should have offered to replace my car already, but they haven't which leads me to believe that ford thinks I should just put up with it, but that is a pretty expensive annoyance for your average consumer.

My offer to look into this further still stands. :)

 

Meagan

[stevedebi]

They exhausted all suggestions related to ANC and the issue persists. At this point I am giving up due to lack of confidence they have any idea what is wrong. I think they should have offered to replace my car already, but they haven't which leads me to believe that ford thinks I should just put up with it, but that is a pretty expensive annoyance for your average consumer.

I'm sorry, I could not tell from your post if they tried replacing the microphones?

[SillyBear]

I'm sorry, I could not tell from your post if they tried replacing the microphones?

I believe it was mentioned earlier in the thread that the microphones were replaced. From I understood the sound lessened because it was no longer being amplified, but it still persisted outside the car.

[stevedebi]

I believe it was mentioned earlier in the thread that the microphones were replaced. From I understood the sound lessened because it was no longer being amplified, but it still persisted outside the car.

Ah, thanks. Yes, it sounds like it is time to get a buy back.

[wb8nbs]

My offer to look into this further still stands. :)

 

Meagan

 

Meagan, It would help a lot to isolate the problem if Ford could come up with a way to disable ANC, preferably as an option setting in MyFordTouch. Pulling fuse 22 disables more than the canceller, it kills the radio too so that is not a long term fix and is not something you can do while moving. I have no idea where the ANC processor is located so can't disconnect it there. If I did know I'd drive a wooden stake through it's heart.

 

We still hear the noise on cool mornings but not when the car is warmed up now that the weather is nice.  I'm getting 50 mpg pretty consistantly now.

[Jenie Benson]

I've sent a PM to Meagan in hopes of getting information on initiating buy back asap. Life got in the way for the past couple months, but I'm still frustrated with this car and not being able to use my hands free stuff over the past 6 months since they fiddled with my ANC at the dealership. And i know as soon as winter comes, my original problem will still exist and I'll be ready to drive the car through the front window of the dealership and leave it there. So buy-back initiation here we come. Here's hoping Ford wants to stand behind their good name and their product and refund me for this hunk of junk.

[Jenie Benson]

Well, I just got off the phone with the same regional Ford guy I've chatted with during this whole ordeal and got the same baloney canned answers. I was hoping someone would finally get me in touch with someone who had the knowledge and the power to buy back my car or help initiate the process.  Instead, I got told that regional Ford hadn't followed up with the dealership about my last repair (which didn't fix the car) and considered my car fixed because the repair order was closed and I'd picked up the car. That's an interesting way to determine if something is fixed, don't you think? Well it wasn't fixed, which is why I went back to the dealership to have them write a new repair order without any labor stating they verified the problem wasn't fixed. However, regional Ford didn't follow up with the dealership, they just took the paperwork they had and ran with it. 

 

Now I'm being told that unless there is a verifyable problem and they can make a new repair order (yes, he actually asked me several times if I would be bringing my car to the dealership to have the cold weather issue verified in mid-July) that Ford can't do anything to help me and I'll just have to wait until the problem resurfaces and go back again to have the problem worked on.  When I asked how many times Ford expected me to keep having to go back for the same issue, he tried to explain how warranty works. I had to remind him that in this state, there is a set number of times that Ford can require me to keep coming back for the same not-fixed issue and that I'd already passed that threshold. I was trying to reach out to Ford for buy-back directly and make this all a lot less painful on everyone involved, but he told me they would NOT buy my car back.  I reminded him that there are laws in this state and based on those laws, I already had enough days in the shop to force Ford to buy my car back under Lemon Law.  Then he back-pedalled to say yes, well I have that option. I guess Ford has decided they would like me to sue them under Lemon Law. I can tell you this - that one regional customer service guy, who is the only one for this region he told me - is enough to make me think twice before buying a new Ford once this is over. I'm gonna miss this car, but I am not gonna miss the incredible hassle it has been.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Jenie Benson

[SillyBear]

Well, I just got off the phone with the same regional Ford guy I've chatted with during this whole ordeal and got the same baloney canned answers. I was hoping someone would finally get me in touch with someone who had the knowledge and the power to buy back my car or help initiate the process. Instead, I got told that regional Ford hadn't followed up with the dealership about my last repair (which didn't fix the car) and considered my car fixed because the repair order was closed and I'd picked up the car. That's an interesting way to determine if something is fixed, don't you think? Well it wasn't fixed, which is why I went back to the dealership to have them write a new repair order without any labor stating they verified the problem wasn't fixed. However, regional Ford didn't follow up with the dealership, they just took the paperwork they had and ran with it.

 

Now I'm being told that unless there is a verifyable problem and they can make a new repair order (yes, he actually asked me several times if I would be bringing my car to the dealership to have the cold weather issue verified in mid-July) that Ford can't do anything to help me and I'll just have to wait until the problem resurfaces and go back again to have the problem worked on. When I asked how many times Ford expected me to keep having to go back for the same issue, he tried to explain how warranty works. I had to remind him that in this state, there is a set number of times that Ford can require me to keep coming back for the same not-fixed issue and that I'd already passed that threshold. I was trying to reach out to Ford for buy-back directly and make this all a lot less painful on everyone involved, but he told me they would NOT buy my car back. I reminded him that there are laws in this state and based on those laws, I already had enough days in the shop to force Ford to buy my car back under Lemon Law. Then he back-pedalled to say yes, well I have that option. I guess Ford has decided they would like me to sue them under Lemon Law. I can tell you this - that one regional customer service guy, who is the only one for this region he told me - is enough to make me think twice before buying a new Ford once this is over. I'm gonna miss this car, but I am not gonna miss the incredible hassle it has been.

Hi Jenie,

 

Have you ended up finding a resolution to the problem? Ford had made adjustments to the ANC in my car back in June. The noise was gone but now that the weather is cooling it's unfortunately back. I picked up my car from my dealer today and they said the noise is most related my tires. I highly doubt it is but they requested I come back in on a cooler day when I can reproduce the noise and take a technician out.

Edited October 14, 2015 by SillyBear

[Jenie Benson]

Hi Jenie,

 

Have you ended up finding a resolution to the problem? Ford had made adjustments to the ANC in my car back in June. The noise was gone but now that the weather is cooling it's unfortunately back. I picked up my car from my dealer today and they said the noise is most related my tires. I highly doubt it is but they requested I come back in on a cooler day when I can reproduce the noise and take a technician out.

Nope, no resolution on this yet. 

 

It was 38 degrees out this morning and the noise has returned (it doesn't happen during nice warm summer weather).  It has never happened before above 32.  I have had very little time to put together a letter asking for buy back under lemon law in my state this summer, and figured they were going to insist on one more chance to fix it even though they have had more than the legally required days to do so and they wouldn't be able to recreate the issue until it was cold, so I didn't stress out over getting that all put together. I do, however, have all my service records printed out and ready to attach to my letter when it is finished.  I also heard from the dealership that the regional manager that was so unhelpful (and kinda rude) to me is no longer the regional manager of this area, so I might give it one more go talking to the new regional manager to see if I can get anywhere with that. 

 

I have decided though, that I do not want another hybrid at this time.  There is too much fancy stuff and the technology (at least from Ford) is still too new. I'm gonna go with something a bit more tried and true for a while and maybe come back to hybrid at a later time.  I will miss the quietness of the electric engine, but not the loudness of the combustion engine in cold weather.  And I will miss the gas mileage, though I have started looking at new cars and if I stay with a smallish car, I can probably get something with about 40mpg, which is pretty decent.

 

If you take your car back on a colder day, pay attention to when the noise happens (for me, it's at a specific RPM, not any particular speed and it's under a certain temp range - which appears to have gone up to under 40 instead of under 32). Pay attention to if it happens with any particular accessory on (heat, radio, etc).  Pay attention to if the noise kicks off when the electric engine is running (mine does, it only makes the noise when the ICE hits that magical RPM range).  If those things sound like your car, it's not the tires, it's not the ANC, it's not an aftermarket roof rack, it's not your driving style, it's not the motor mounts, it's not normal for that model car or any hybrid for that matter - some people have been told "well, hybrids make weird noises". It's likely a harmonic resonance native to the vehicle as a whole that is amplified under certain temperature conditions.  No amount of fiddling with the car will ever find it.  My car is proof of that. 

[raadsel]

If you can't get this worked out and Ford buys your car back, and are willing to go with a sedan, I might suggest trying out the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid. Since it has a traditional automatic transmission, it doesn't have some of the odd sounds that you get from the CVT. The 2016 version of the hybrid (technically the 2nd gen) appears to be quite good; Alex on Autos considers it and the Honda Accord Hybrid as the two best hybrids currently. 

[Jenie Benson]

If you can't get this worked out and Ford buys your car back, and are willing to go with a sedan, I might suggest trying out the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid. Since it has a traditional automatic transmission, it doesn't have some of the odd sounds that you get from the CVT. The 2016 version of the hybrid (technically the 2nd gen) appears to be quite good; Alex on Autos considers it and the Honda Accord Hybrid as the two best hybrids currently. 

Thanks for the advice.  I'm rather partial to hatchbacks, so I'm looking to get something with that same styling. Not sure what just yet, but a few things have started to look worth researching.

[stevedebi]

Thanks for the advice.  I'm rather partial to hatchbacks, so I'm looking to get something with that same styling. Not sure what just yet, but a few things have started to look worth researching.

Just a note, a hybrid IS inherently complex. There are different types of engineering, but it takes a lot of software to balance out the electric and ICE. I'd take a look at other forums before buying a hybrid if you think you don't like them because of your Ford experience.

[GSMacLean]

For anyone reading this thread who might benefit from this information:

 

My 2013 Energi was making a kind of "wooo" noise at times as wel, and it was getting louder and more frequent. To me it sounded like a bearing noise. I could determine that it was only occurring when the engine (ICE) was running, AND it was charging the HV battery. If the ICE was running and the HV battery was being depleted or not used, then the noise did not occur. As soon as it switched into charge mode, the noise would start again.

 

The end result is that the car is at the dealer this week getting a new transmission (after a bunch of remote diagnostics by a Ford engineer).

 

I posted more about it (along with a sound file) here: http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/topic/3861-bearing-noise-with-cold-engine/

[Jenie Benson]

For anyone reading this thread who might benefit from this information:

 

My 2013 Energi was making a kind of "wooo" noise at times as wel, and it was getting louder and more frequent. To me it sounded like a bearing noise. I could determine that it was only occurring when the engine (ICE) was running, AND it was charging the HV battery. If the ICE was running and the HV battery was being depleted or not used, then the noise did not occur. As soon as it switched into charge mode, the noise would start again.

 

The end result is that the car is at the dealer this week getting a new transmission (after a bunch of remote diagnostics by a Ford engineer).

 

I posted more about it (along with a sound file) here: http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/topic/3861-bearing-noise-with-cold-engine/

I listened to the sound your car makes. Mine is similar, but a lower pitch and only happens at a certain RPM range when the car is below about 40 degrees and only when the ICE is running. My husband has been convinced it's the transmission, but every Ford tech working with my dealership remotely has said it was something in the headliner or roof of the car or in the ANC system (which they messed with so much that it no longer works properly and causes my bluetooth to garble so I can't even use voice commands cause the car can't understand me).  This weekend, I'll be compiling my data to send my letter to Ford requesting buy back under our state's Lemon Law.  I'm through messing with this. My 36K warranty will be up after this weekend's driving (like I told the previous Ford regional guy - I am not interested in letting Ford run out my warranty and then charging me to fix an issue I never should have been dealing with for multiple years). You might say, I'm a bit ticked off at Ford at this point after their regional guy said point blank "Ford will not buy  your car back".  To which I reminded him that in Minnesota, we have laws about such things and my car has already met the guidelines of being a lemon per how many warranty days in the shop and how many times back for the same issue they were unable to fix. And then he blew me off.  I think he thought he could make me go away. :doh: I'll let you all know how the lemon law thing comes out and if I end up having to get a lawyer. :rant2:

[wb8nbs]

Thanks for the advice.  I'm rather partial to hatchbacks, so I'm looking to get something with that same styling. Not sure what just yet, but a few things have started to look worth researching.

My wife hates the hatchback. She says other cars are more likely to tailgate a hatchback.

[wb8nbs]

Thirty degree days now and the CMax is starting to make the wooo again.

[Podivin]

My wife hates the hatchback. She says other cars are more likely to tailgate a hatchback.

 

I suspect that they just APPEAR closer in the rear view mirror because they are closer to the back glass.  I think that people who tailgate don't care what kind of a car is in front of them, they're going too ride to close no matter what.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Podivin

[raadsel]

I suspect that they just APPEAR closer in the rear view mirror because they are closer to the back glass.  I think that people who tailgate don't care what kind of a car is in front of them, they're going to ride to close no matter what.

 

I'll second this, it is an issue I had to get used to when I first got my C-Max.

[Jenie Benson]

My letter is officially sent requesting buy-back. The problem has returned with the winter weather and the frequency has increased.

[ptjones]

My letter is officially sent requesting buy-back. The problem has returned with the winter weather and the frequency has increased.

It would have been nice if they figured out what's causing the noise. ;)

 

Paul

[Jenie Benson]

It would have been nice if they figured out what's causing the noise. ;)

 

Paul

Yep, sure would have. But after 2 years of wrestling with this, we have thrown in the towel, requested buy back and started looking at different models for our next vehicle. Depending on how agreeable Ford is about buy back, it is possible we'll be buying from them again. The dealership we've been working with has been great and kind and as helpful as they could be. We're thinking of sticking to a less complicated technology for the next vehicle however. After all the hassles with the dealership trying to diagnose the gremlin plaguing our Cmax, we don't feel comfortable gambling on having to deal with that again.  It's a shame. I really do like driving this car. If they could have repaired it last winter, I'd have been a happy camper.

[ptjones]

Are you the only one with the problem?  How long did it take to show up?  Maybe buying a low mile used one could be the solution? Just thinking out loud. LOL  I would think the chances are very small and you like your CMAX.  Good Luck! :) 

 

Paul 

[Jenie Benson]

Are you the only one with the problem?  How long did it take to show up?  Maybe buying a low mile used one could be the solution? Just thinking out loud. LOL  I would think the chances are very small and you like your CMAX.  Good Luck! :)

 

Paul 

 

I am not the only one with this issue.  There are a few others I know of around the country.  We have verified the conditions under which the issue happens and by MP3 file that the noise that accompanies the vibration is identical. So far, none of us have a solution. I may be the first one to request buy back.  I just don't want to take the chance with getting another with so many issues. With how much this car cost, I really expected much more. And I did kinda expect Ford to step in a long time ago and offer to help out or make it right, but the only things I've been offered is advise to take it to the dealer (which I have done over and over to the tune of 38 business days in the shop) and the regional manager offered me an extended warranty to 75K (I already purchased one to 100K at the time I bought the car) OR free oil changes for 2 years or maybe it was 1.  Either way, with the mileage I'm getting between oil changes, it equated to about $70 in benefit. And when I told him how neither of those things were of benefit to me (for the reasons stated above), he stuck to his script and told me that was all he was authorized to offer.  Although this was the same guy who called me after a 17 business day stint in the shop (3 days later when it was cold again, the issue showed it had not bee resolved and I went back to the dealer and had them create a service record notating it). He wanted to chat about the resolution of my issue, but the issue wasn't resolved, just the repair ticket had been closed. When I told him it was not resolved and asked if he'd read the service tickets or talked with the dealership, he flat out said no, he had not. He just saw it was closed so to him that meant resolved. I think that was the last time I decided to bother talking with him. I asked to be put in touch with someone else at Ford, but got him again. Good news is, I hear from the dealership that he has been reassigned and there is a new regional manager.

[djc]

I heard the LOUD resonant vibration noise last winter with ICE under partial load, only in temps below 30.  It sounded like a panel vibrating in/around passenger footwell, perhaps being amplified by misguided ANC.  I haven't heard it yet this winter, but it has been unusually mild.  Perhaps that is Ford's fix: global warming.

[Jenie Benson]

I heard the LOUD resonant vibration noise last winter with ICE under partial load, only in temps below 30.  It sounded like a panel vibrating in/around passenger footwell, perhaps being amplified by misguided ANC.  I haven't heard it yet this winter, but it has been unusually mild.  Perhaps that is Ford's fix: global warming.

That was funny.  Global warming....  Yes, it has been quite warm (it would appear you and I are in the same state), however, I leave for work early enough each morning that I have managed to catch some of the coldest weather.  We took it to the North Shore this weekend and it was 36 on the way home and just kept doing it.