Strange, long wooooo sound at steady speeds, ICE on

[djc]

Jenie, good luck with customer service.

 

If you do have a chance, it would be useful to know which engine mount got replaced.

Also, what is the build date of your car?  Ford changed the passenger side mount on 2/25/2013, and the center rear mount on 9/8/2013 (sounds like the start of the 2014 model year production).  Looks like the revised parts are being used through 2016 models - so maybe a potential problem with both those mounts in early production.

 

I have just read various on-line discussions of Focus mounts failing and transmitting vibrations, as well as discussions of Focus enthusiasts who replace the stock hydraulic mounts with solid ones so the transmission moves less when accelerating, enabling quicker manual gearbox shifts (trade-off: more drivetrain noise in passenger compartment).

 

The upshot of the discussions (for me) was to re-enforce the thought that different mounts might well make a difference to powertrain noise in the C-max.

My car was fine yesterday; temps in low 20s.  Under moderate engine load I could feel vibration through the steering wheel, but no disturbing noises.

Fine today with lower temps (17).

 

Anyone who is interested can see the 3 C-max powertrain mounts here (a dealer that sells discounted parts):

 

http://www.gaudinautoparts.com/auto-parts/2013/ford/c-max/hybrid-se-trim/2-0l-l4-electric-gas-engine/engine-cat/engine-and-trans-mounting-scat

 

The lower mount shows two parts, a small link and a bracket -- I think it mounts to the suspension cross-member, possibly transmitting vibration to the floor pans.  The other two bigger mounts carry the weight of the powertrain, and bolt to the frame high-up near where the top of the front shocks mount.  

Edited December 31, 2015 by djc

[Jenie Benson]

Still waiting for a supervisor to call me as promised. They missed 2 promised call backs last week (Tues and Weds last week were the days I was told I would get a call from a supervisor "before the end of business tomorrow") .  I gave them some leeway given the holiday for the call back that should have come Thursday and thought maybe they would call yesterday or at the very least sometime this afternoon.  It's 3:30pm and still no call. The lack of response is disheartening and leaning me away from Ford completely. Not sure I want to visit this circus again if I have an issue in the future that I need to speak with someone at Ford about. This is not anything like what I consider good customer service.

[djc]

Jenie,  What's the build date of your C-max?  As I mentioned, they have changed engine mounts twice during C-max production run.

Thanks.

This weekend will be cold here; I am curious / anxious to see whether noise shows up (hasn't so far this winter).

[stevedebi]

Jenie,  What's the build date of your C-max?  As I mentioned, they have changed engine mounts twice during C-max production run.

Thanks.

This weekend will be cold here; I am curious / anxious to see whether noise shows up (hasn't so far this winter).

Do you have the build dates for the changes?

[Jenie Benson]

Jenie,  What's the build date of your C-max?  As I mentioned, they have changed engine mounts twice during C-max production run.

Thanks.

This weekend will be cold here; I am curious / anxious to see whether noise shows up (hasn't so far this winter).

6.11.2013

[Jenie Benson]

Round 4 - Got a call finally from the supervisor in the regional customer care department.  Similar answer - not going to buy my car back, but not because I missed some kind of "presumption period" but because Ford doesn't believe I have met the requirements. I asked them to clarify, but apparently only their legal department will clarify and I'm not allowed to talk with them and get any straight answers.  So I outlined that I have had the car in the shop for 38 business days for warranty related issues in under 2 years of ownership, that I have had 3 attempts to fix the same issue with no results and that the resale value is basically nothing because in the winter if someone test drove it they would look at me like I was crazy after the car made it's horrible noise and vibration and the only way I could sell it is if I did so in the summer and I was dishonest and did not disclose the fact that it has a problem no one knows how to fix.  The supervisor said they were sure Ford could fix the car and that I should take it to the dealership and have them work on it again and that Ford would make sure all resources were at their disposal for fixing it (which I informed her had already happened and they have exhausted resources and it's a waste of time for me to have them try again). My mind is now made up, I will not be buying another Ford of any kind after this is all over. I have no faith that if I did and had a problem with that car such that I needed the help of the regional management that I would get anywhere besides facing a brick wall.  I will also be sure to tell anyone I come in contact with about this story and the very bad customer service provided by Ford corporate. The dealership has been great, corporate on the other hand couldn't care less if I like them or not.

 

Started BBB Autoline complaint for arbitration just now.  And will be looking for a lawyer since I am not willing to take one less penny than I am entitled to (which it is likely the BBB Autoline will not offer to give me what I am entitled to. From reports I have read, they do not follow the letter of the law when figuring what the buy back amount should be and often try to short change people.  I know I'm entitled to entire purchase price of car, including the amount from my trade-in, taxes and fees minus a very specific amount for mileage I have used). Ford wanted to do this the hard way - so be it.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Jenie Benson

[plus 3 golfer]

Round 4 - Got a call finally from the supervisor in the regional customer care department.  Similar answer - not going to buy my car back, but not because I missed some kind of "presumption period" but because Ford doesn't believe I have met the requirements. I asked them to clarify, but apparently only their legal department will clarify and I'm not allowed to talk with them and get any straight answers.  ...

 

Started BBB Autoline complaint for arbitration just now.  And will be looking for a lawyer ...

You now know that you have the attention of Ford's legal department.  It's likely a standard response from legal as some will just go away.  Yes, good choice in talking to an attorney.

 

Good luck.

[Jenie Benson]

You now know that you have the attention of Ford's legal department.  It's likely a standard response from legal as some will just go away.  Yes, good choice in talking to an attorney.

 

Good luck.

Not going away :) I spent a lot of money to get my very first brand new car and traded in a perfectly good low mileage car because I really wanted a hybrid and after my looking at the options, the Cmax Energi really was what I wanted.  And the one at the dealership had options I liked and was a color I really loved. I'm not about to walk away knowing I am still making payments on something that has basically no resale value due to an issue that cannot be solved that could potentially be something serious and end up costing me a lot more money later to fix or could end up being something that jeopardizes my safety (since they don't know what's wrong with it, anyone's guess is as good as mine if it will be some kind of catastrophic failure in the future or not). Ford may have drastically underestimated my resolve and my knowledge of warranty related things (as well as my persistence - though they may be realizing that now that I kept calling and reminding them that my call had gone unreturned for several days in a row). Totally not letting them get off easy.  They chose the hard route for themselves.

[raadsel]

Forgive me for adding this to the thread but it seems it could be a related issue. I'm thinking I've seen it mentioned here before but don't recall when. In any case, while slowing to make a turn recently, the car shuddered as if I had been rear ended -- but the car behind me was far enough back (10 ft or so) that I wasn't actually hit by another car. It really seemed like there was a mild "bang" sound, again like I had been hit, to go with the shuddering. Afterward the car seemed fine, fuel economy doesn't seem to be different, so not quite sure what to think. 

 

As I said, I recall someone else here saying they had something similar happen, just wondering if other people have and if we have any idea what might have caused it. Is there something happening that I should be concerned with or something I should check (or have Ford check out)?

Edited January 6, 2016 by raadsel

[stevedebi]

Forgive me for adding this to the thread but it seems it could be a related issue. I'm thinking I've seen it mentioned here before but don't recall when. In any case, while slowing to make a turn recently, the car shuddered as if I had been rear ended -- but the car behind me was far enough back (10 ft or so) that I wasn't actually hit by another car. It really seemed like there was a mild "bang" sound, again like I had been hit, to go with the shuddering. Afterward the car seemed fine, fuel economy doesn't seem to be different, so not quite sure what to think. 

 

As I said, I recall someone else here saying they had something similar happen, just wondering if other people have and if we have any idea what might have caused it. Is there something happening that I should be concerned with or something I should check (or have Ford check out)?

 

Could be a wheel lost traction and the ABS kicked in, or you got very slow and the physical brake pads engaged, and burned off some rust.

 

Never had that sort of thing happen on mine. But it won't hurt to have Ford check it out if you are under warranty.

[djc]

Re: Engine mount changes, as I mentioned in 12/31 post:

 

"Ford changed the passenger side mount on 2/25/2013, and the center rear mount on 9/8/2013 (sounds like the start of the 2014 model year production).  Looks like the revised parts are being used through 2016 models - so maybe a potential problem with both those mounts in early production."

 

So the center engine mount was changed after Jenie's 6/11/13 build date (and after my July build also).  We have both experienced the noise. 

 

Yesterday I heard a very subdued version of the noise going up hill, power at second bar on the Kw gauge (= 2 Kw?), temps in 20s.  What was different from experience last winter is it was not electronically amplified to ear deafening.  It is possible the round of firmware updates the dealer did last month fixed the problem; won't know until we get first temps near 0 this weekend.  Of course my service receipt didn't tell me what was actually done - just update of many unspecified modules.

 

So possible fixes for the problem in 2013 cars are:

1. Module firmware updates.

2. Replace passenger (engine side) and especially center engine mounts with current production versions - or more deluxe, if available.

3. unplug ANC module in the dash (leaving audio system functional).

[raadsel]

Could be a wheel lost traction and the ABS kicked in, or you got very slow and the physical brake pads engaged, and burned off some rust.

 

Never had that sort of thing happen on mine. But it won't hurt to have Ford check it out if you are under warranty.

 

I suppose it could have something to do with ABS. I have a hard time thinking it might be rust on the brake pads, considering I'd been driving for several minutes before it happened, with several stops and turns prior. I'm thinking it is likely pointless to have it checked out as it appears to have been a one time issue, and as near as I can tell without checking, no codes were generated -- at least no lights came on, even momentarily.

[stevedebi]

Re: Engine mount changes, as I mentioned in 12/31 post:

 

"Ford changed the passenger side mount on 2/25/2013, and the center rear mount on 9/8/2013 (sounds like the start of the 2014 model year production).  Looks like the revised parts are being used through 2016 models - so maybe a potential problem with both those mounts in early production."

 

So the center engine mount was changed after Jenie's 6/11/13 build date (and after my July build also).  We have both experienced the noise. 

 

Yesterday I heard a very subdued version of the noise going up hill, power at second bar on the Kw gauge (= 2 Kw?), temps in 20s.  What was different from experience last winter is it was not electronically amplified to ear deafening.  It is possible the round of firmware updates the dealer did last month fixed the problem; won't know until we get first temps near 0 this weekend.  Of course my service receipt didn't tell me what was actually done - just update of many unspecified modules.

 

So possible fixes for the problem in 2013 cars are:

1. Module firmware updates.

2. Replace passenger (engine side) and especially center engine mounts with current production versions - or more deluxe, if available.

3. unplug ANC module in the dash (leaving audio system functional).

Thanks for the info, it won't affect my 2014, which was built in July 14.

[djc]

OK, some real winter here in MN finally.  Yesterday at 0° the noise appeared on the freeway.  ICE on, power meter at 2nd bar.  Went away with either increasing or reducing throttle  (which of course is not an option when cruise control is maintaining posted speed).   Difference from a year ago is that it did not seem to be electronically amplified - a considerable improvement.  Noise also appeared at lower speeds going up hill, under 2-bar power delivery.  SO I am still thinking Dec module reprogramming changed the behavior of noise cancellation system so that it is either working a bit or out of the picture, but at least not making things worse. 

 

What I would like to know is how (and why) the C-max center engine mount was changed in Sept 2013, and whether the change affects the resonant noise.

[Jenie Benson]

Well, I'll be leaving the forum soon. Ford has agreed to offer a re-purchase on my car via the MN Lemon Law after filing with the BBB auto line (38 business days in the shop for warranty in 2 years of ownership and even though they tried to tell me I'd missed some kind of window to have it bought back, the law here is still the law here and when push came to shove, they knew I had fulfilled all the requirements.). I should receive a letter from Ford's legal department in a couple of weeks with their calculation on what they think I should get via the MN Lemon Law. We'll see if their legal department is good at math (goodness knows I am with all the accounting I do at work so I'll be triple checking theirs). Sad to see the car go, but happy to have the mess done with soon. Let's hope they don't try anything funny with the numbers that will force me to take them to arbitration. 

[ptjones]

So what are you going to get to replace it? ;)

 

Paul

[Jenie Benson]

So what are you going to get to replace it? ;)

 

Paul

Haven't decided yet, but we have been throwing around a number of ideas.  Our truck recently died and we just bought another car to replace the truck. so maybe a truck.

[djc]

Jennie, congrats on getting a buy-back.  Good luck with shopping.

My 2013 seems to have been cured by routine module firmware updates the dealer did in December - I haven't experienced the problem noise this winter. 

If you have a chance, let us know how Ford determined the buy-back price.

[wb8nbs]

Jennie, congrats on getting a buy-back.  Good luck with shopping.

My 2013 seems to have been cured by routine module firmware updates the dealer did in December - I haven't experienced the problem noise this winter. 

If you have a chance, let us know how Ford determined the buy-back price.

 

Could you maybe find out what was updated? My 2013 is still moaning but with the mild winter we've had this year, not often.

[stevedebi]

I've noticed a few times that the engine puts out a "wooo" sound on. Each time I've let off the gas and the sound goes away. I don't know if it is the ANC adjusting or what. It wasn't that loud, but definitely present.

 

Just adding a data point here. It isn't worth mentioning to the dealer. I think what folks are hearing on this thread is a lot louder.

[scottwood2]

I've noticed a few times that the engine puts out a "wooo" sound on. Each time I've let off the gas and the sound goes away. I don't know if it is the ANC adjusting or what. It wasn't that loud, but definitely present.

 

Just adding a data point here. It isn't worth mentioning to the dealer. I think what folks are hearing on this thread is a lot louder.

Mine is the same.  Happens about 2200 RPM.  Go above or below and it goes away.  Mine is not that bad and not always there.  As you said I think some are much more noticeable.  

[stevedebi]

Mine is the same.  Happens about 2200 RPM.  Go above or below and it goes away.  Mine is not that bad and not always there.  As you said I think some are much more noticeable.  

Except on long highway trips I don't have the RPM gauge up, so I don't know where it shows up.

[fbov]

Tachometer is a My View option.

[stevedebi]

Tachometer is a My View option.

I know, as I said, I use it on long highway trips.

[WNY]

i have the drone/woo sounds right at 2350-2450 RPM on the scan gauge usually just under load like going up an on ramp or something if I keep it steady at that RPM. 
Usually don't notice it much with the radio on. lol