MY CMAX is a lemon

[Adrian_L]

That sums up my initial thoughts.  The lady complained of mpgs "in the 20s" in the freezing Indiana winter.  No amount of grill covers or highway sweet spots is going to raise that up to 47.

[dmk2000]

You might have your wife try going a *little* faster - supposedly there is a sweet spot of between 67 and 68 mph that gets the best gas mileage at freeway speeds (folks are reporting 45+ when they set ecocruise at that sweet spot).

Here is an update. I ask my wife to maintain 67~68 mph as you recommended on eco-cruise and behold, she did get an extra mpg out of it. Granted, she only drives about 15 miles on a high way, but still, it is a nice bonus. Thanks for a tip. Personally I thought sweet spot is around 55~60 mph.

[Kelleytoons]

Well, I'm glad it worked, and she might continue to experiment to see if she can hit that sweet spot exactly (some say it's 67 others say 68).  I don't know if it works for all but it apparently does work for some (I will try it myself the next time we drive to Orlando).  As to why -- who knows?  (These cars are mostly still mystery to me :>)

[Laurel]

dmk2000 is your wife really okay with your advice concerning getting extra mileage?  I have been married 46 years and it is like waving a red flag at me when my husband "suggests" how I drive our C-Max to get better mileage LOL.

[Kelleytoons]

Laurel -- LOL.

 

An honest wife -- you are a treasure (of course my OWN acts the same way but would NEVER admit it :>).

[dmk2000]

dmk2000 is your wife really okay with your advice concerning getting extra mileage?  I have been married 46 years and it is like waving a red flag at me when my husband "suggests" how I drive our C-Max to get better mileage LOL.

Actually she is. One of the reason we bought this car is to get better mileage out of our gas $$. So if any change will further our cause, she is good with it. Advise on other matters such as kids, house remodeling, how to spend a weekend, what's for dinner, and other "minuscule" issues is another topic ;)

Edited August 26, 2014 by dmk2000

[Kelleytoons]

Reminds me of the story about the husband who said "In our household I make ALL the major decisions and my wife makes the minor ones.  I decide where we stand on foreign policy, the trade deficit, and world peace, and she decides where we live, what I do for a living, and how we spend all our money."

[RobMax]

Reminds me of the story about the husband who said "In our household I make ALL the major decisions and my wife makes the minor ones.  I decide where we stand on foreign policy, the trade deficit, and world peace, and she decides where we live, what I do for a living, and how we spend all our money."

 

LOL, I'll remember that one for next time I'm asked.

[Jus-A-CMax]

C'mon folks...keep to the topic, the CMax is a lemon..no good times now.... ;)  l e m o n :victory:

[Kelleytoons]

Oh, right, yes -- BAD C-Max, bad girl!  You go to your room and think about what you've just done (or not, as the case may be).

[CMax-Traveler]

I'm not sure if this has been posted, but here is the 2014 car complaint index:

http://www.lemonlaw.com/carcomplaintindex.html

 

A couple things to note:

This is a RELATIVE index - so it's number of complaints relative to the number of that vehicle sold

While C-Max is on the list, it's nowhere near the top.  It is about 1/3 of the worst car, and just barely worse than the Prius.

 

Anyway, there's some hard data for ya.

[kostby]

According to this ACSI report, customer satisfaction with automakers including several "luxury" brands, has fallen to a 5 year low. Ford ranks "81" with Hyundai, Nissan, and Chrysler.

 

http://www.theacsi.org/news-and-resources/press-releases/press-2014/press-release-automobiles-2014

 

An excerpt:

Mercedes-Benz is down 2 percent but still leads the industry with an ACSI score of 86, followed by Subaru at 85 (-1%). Lexus slips 3 percent to tie Volkswagen (unchanged) at 84, while Toyota and Honda each fall 3 percent to 83. Buick also scores 83 and is the only domestic nameplate to exceed the industry average.

“There are two aspects of these findings that are somewhat unusual,” says Claes Fornell, ACSI Chairman and founder. “The first is that although the domestic car industry has deteriorated in customer satisfaction over the past couple of years, the gap to imports has narrowed due to a weakening of the latter’s customer satisfaction. The other notable finding is that several of the luxury brands do poorly. That didn’t use to be the case, and suggests that consumers now expect more for their money when they pay a premium price.”

Meanwhile, Chevrolet jumps to an ACSI score of 82, matching GMC (down 4%) and Kia (unchanged). Ford, Nissan, Hyundai and Chrysler are all tied at 81, just below industry average. Cadillac plummets 6 percent to an ACSI score of 80, neck and neck with Mazda and BMW (both down 2%).

At the bottom of the rankings are two domestic brands and two imports. Chrysler’s Jeep and Dodge both dip 1 percent to 79 and 78, respectively. Audi, which is included in the Index for the first time this year, posts a score of 79. In last place, Acura plunges 7 percent to 77.

[Kelleytoons]

At the risk of being scolded again for being OT, may I point out (from a scientific standpoint) that margin for error in polls like this is probably at *least* 5%.  IOW, trying to differentiate between a score of 86 and 81 is mostly meaningless (WAY too many variables and slippages in the "science" involved in such a poll).  Plus it's extremely difficult to adjust for things that can skew the results in ways the average person (looking at the base numbers) can find useful.

 

Customer satisfaction for Dell computers, for example, has plummeted but it's nearly all due to them outsourcing their tech support to India.  The computers themselves are still among the best bargains someone can purchase in terms of quality and bang for the buck (you *can* do better if you build it yourself, but not by much).  

 

Trying to judge the value or quality of car based on customer satisfaction for the maker is misleading at best, and almost certainly pointless.

[nsteblay]

I think in general the quality of cars has gone up over the past decade.  Most modern cars have achieved an incredible state of quality when compared to earlier decades.  The C-Max 2013 being a new model I expected a few bumps.  The question you need to ask does Ford follow-up when there are quality issues.  I would answer a resounding "Yes!" to the question.  I've been impressed with the software upgrades, recalls and resetting of the EPA MPG where they even have refunded money.  Your dealer will be a large portion of an owners experience when dealing with quality issues.  

 

I think the design of the car stands on its own merits and I'm very happy with my decision. Are there things that could be better - absolutely.  I think Ford will be a leader in the hybrid space as it evolves.

[plus 3 golfer]

It appears that the complaint data is for the manufacturer not specific models.  Thus, I'd assume that the sample size is relatively large for each manufacturer.  Therefore, for a 95% confidence level my guess is that the margin of error is a lot less than 5%.  A few thousand samples from each manufacturer will get the margin of error to less than 2%.  It only takes a several hundred samples to reach a margin of error of 5%.

[C-MaxSea]

and I'd assume nothing from these polls!  They are extremely weak, represent but a fraction of what car ownership is about, and are relatively meaningless to me. 
 
I wouldn't hesitate to buy a car from any of these Manufacturers if the individual car was compelling and what I wanted. 
 
We buy our cars because we need the dang things, and want what we want.  We then pay whatever it takes (& more sometimes) to keep it going because we like it and want to - if not we move on to the next gamble (& within our budget).
 
just saying, screw the 'scientific' poppycock polling data.  (Alternatively, worship the polls, buy a Mercedes and pour money into it  ;) ;) ;))
(((our friends recently blew theirs up after 7 years and got $500 for the carcass - and it was meticulously cared for)))
 
Nick

 

('Gee, Snugglebuns, should we get an 82% or an 81%' ............ )

We love our lemons Volvo 240, VW Busses, Audi Fox, BMW 525, Renault 16, SAAB 96, ............ C-Max !!!

Edited August 30, 2014 by C-MaxSea

[Jus-A-CMax]

Poppycock? A lemony poppycock? ...hey I am sticking with the Wendelina Stouts' desire to express that the CMax is a poppycock lemon (thanks to the extra flavoring from Nick)....get with the program guys.... :dogwalk: stick to the lemon theme, who cares about polls....(if they don't substantiate what you desire....thats why there are so many polls...pick and choose one that meets your need and go "THERE! THERE! There is a poppycock lemon Cmanx poll"!!!!!!! Oh yes BABY I am SATISIFIED!!!!! :bliss:

Edited August 30, 2014 by Jus-A-CMax

[kostby]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the 2015's will be offered in Lemon-y Yellow with a Poppycock interior…  ;)

[Kelleytoons]

It appears that the complaint data is for the manufacturer not specific models.  Thus, I'd assume that the sample size is relatively large for each manufacturer.  Therefore, for a 95% confidence level my guess is that the margin of error is a lot less than 5%.  A few thousand samples from each manufacturer will get the margin of error to less than 2%.  It only takes a several hundred samples to reach a margin of error of 5%.

 

Well, no, you're missing my point. The margin of error I'm talking about is in the actual complaint data.  

 

If someone doesn't like the fact the repair techs aren't native Americans, for example, they may well complain about service ("I don't like their attitude").  Or the person in question might just be a simpleton (the only way to eliminate personal bias from such data is to try and match it up with liked data.  Hard to explain if you have never done scientific analysis, but the easiest way to state it is if someone says they don't like (A) but they like (B) then you need to find out if their reasons for liking (B) are the same as their reasons for not liking (A) ).

 

But the easiest way to explain this is how I said it -- these polls are meaningless.  They might have some value as predictive analysis (in terms of future sales) but even that is probably unlikely.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Kelleytoons

[Adrian_L]

It appears that the complaint data is for the manufacturer not specific models.  Thus, I'd assume that the sample size is relatively large for each manufacturer.  Therefore, for a 95% confidence level my guess is that the margin of error is a lot less than 5%.  A few thousand samples from each manufacturer will get the margin of error to less than 2%.  It only takes a several hundred samples to reach a margin of error of 5%.

 

Makes sense to me.  Logically, you can't state "this poll is somewhat inaccurate, therefore this poll is worthless" (it would be worthless if you asked 5 Mercedes owners in a shopping mall if they liked their cars) That's poppycock logic.

 

Being uninterested in such polls is a different matter.  Nstblay is right: these days, global manufacturing standards mean that all major manufactures put out comparitively good products, compared to say, the 80s when a Hyundai or a Skoda was a piece of junk compared to a Honda.

 

I've noticed a few comments on the forum to the tune of "I always buy American"  to support the economy etc. etc. 

 

This might interest you:

 

http://www.examiner.com/article/if-you-want-to-buy-american-then-you-really-should-be-buying-a-honda-or-acura

Edited August 30, 2014 by Adrian_L

[Kelleytoons]

My dad bought a lemon (to bring this back OT :>) from Ford and never bought another Ford, and passed that on to me, so I never even considered a Ford.

 

His Ford was a 1946 Super Deluxe Convertible.  Good thing there weren't customer satisfaction polls back then <g>.

[plus 3 golfer]

Well, no, you're missing my point. The margin of error I'm talking about is in the actual complaint data.  

 

If someone doesn't like the fact the repair techs aren't native Americans, for example, they may well complain about service ("I don't like their attitude").  Or the person in question might just be a simpleton (the only way to eliminate personal bias from such data is to try and match it up with liked data.  Hard to explain if you have never done scientific analysis, but the easiest way to state it is if someone says they don't like (A) but they like (B) then you need to find out if their reasons for liking (B) are the same as their reasons for not liking (A) ).

 

But the easiest way to explain this is how I said it -- these polls are meaningless.  They might have some value as predictive analysis (in terms of future sales) but even that is probably unlikely.

Okay, I see your point but the survey questionnaires (at least the ones I've seen and filled out) should be structured / designed to mitigate bias. So, without hard evidence, making generalized statements to blindly discredit is "meaningless".:) If one has problems with a brand, they are less likely to buy that brand again. So, a manufacture likely does not want to be in the bottom quartile.

 

So, I guess the JDPowers 2013 IQS survey is meaningless then because it's virtually impossible to completely eliminate bias. But wait, does that mean the 2014 IQS service is meaningless also. Did the C-max really not improve in 2014 or wasn't it really that bad in 2013. No the answer is Ford fixed many of the initial problems and we expected the 2014 C-Max to improve signicantly in IQ and it did.

 

As I've said before, one should do due diligence and weigh all their findings in their purchase decision including price. To some apparently though surveys are meaningless when they don't provide favorable results or the results they've experienced with their vehicle. I like my C-Max and have not had any significant issues as some have had but the 2014 still appears to be about average with respect to initial quality. It is not bad to be average when one spends less than $30k for a car that beats it's completion in so many ways. If I paid $40k+ for a similar vehicle, I'd expect it to be above average in IQ.

[Kelleytoons]

There are a lot of issues here.  One is the data just isn't extensive enough for a vehicle that is only in its second year of production.  I will admit that if you take, say, 20 years or so of data on a specific make and model of a car you may have some good results, but the problem is that most models aren't in production that long. 

 

It might be more reasonable to look at an entire company's line so that you could say, as the results do, that Ford may only be "average" in customer satisfaction but given the number of models most makers produce this is almost worthless in terms of trying to figure out a specific car.  IOW, let's stipulate for a moment that all the rest of the Ford vehicles got top marks in satisfaction and only the C-Max did not.  If people looked at it and said "Wow, the average is... well, average" they would be very mistaken about deciding to buy another car other than the C-Max (it's like the old joke of the guy who was standing with one foot in boiling water and the other in freezing water and was asked how he felt.  "On average", he said, "I feel just fine").

 

Again, the old saw about the three kinds of lies is almost always true -- and statistics are indeed the worst of them.

[MomsHugs]

My mother grew up on a small farm with a high school education in the 30's, but even she understood basic statistics. She had 6 kids & used to say while some turned out quite well & some didn't amount to a hill of beans - but on the whole most of her kids turned out okay. Mom said she couldn't take credit for those who did well & nor the blame for those who didn't. That, my friends, is a fair description of the Statistics 101 course I took in college. I apply the same reasoning to polls, which are generally skewed by whomever is paying for them.

 

MomsHugs aka Eve

[Kelleytoons]

And obviously, Eve, you were one of the ones who turned out well.

 

(Sorry about your brothers/sisters who didn't, though :>).