mbedit Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 The Customer Care Manager also told me there is a new TSB, recently issued, advising Ford dealers to re-program the modules that send door & hatch open messages to the instrument panel. There seems to be a problem with these modules sometimes coming awake at odd times. The TSB is an advisory, not a recall. The technical experts recommend doing the re-programming if there are any incidents of trouble with the 12 volt system. Modules coming awake could drain some power, but in my view these modules should not drain much power. This sounds a bit like something they tried on mine. They replaced a module (twice) that required the keys to be re-programmed. All to no avail. As an updated, Ford initated the buyback/replacement of mine. Hopefully the replacement will work fine. When talking to the Ford Rep, he said he had cross refferenced other regions and dealers to see if anyone was experincing the exact issue mine was and they believe the battery issues are unique to each vehical. I really do like the vehical so I decided to give it another shot. RachelnLa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salman Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 This sounds a bit like something they tried on mine. They replaced a module (twice) that required the keys to be re-programmed. All to no avail. As an updated, Ford initated the buyback/replacement of mine. Hopefully the replacement will work fine. When talking to the Ford Rep, he said he had cross refferenced other regions and dealers to see if anyone was experincing the exact issue mine was and they believe the battery issues are unique to each vehical. I really do like the vehical so I decided to give it another shot. Would you please do a quick re-cap of your case? What does Ford think is unique about your case, unlike others with battery problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbedit Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 I purchased mine at the end of Oct start of Nov. I had about 800 miles on it and the day before Thanksgiving, I came out to find it completely dead. I had it jumped and called the dealer, they did a load test and checked the battery, but did not find anything and and didn't replace the battery. The said don't leave accessories plugged into it and sent me on my way. a week later, it was dead again, this time they dug a bit deeper and claimed to have found a "spike" that was making an intermittent draw on the battery that could drain it. They replaced a module, and I think its the Body control module you mentioned, because they had to reprogram the keys and everything. When that didn't work they tore the car apart looking for the source of this electrical spike and eventually came back around and replaced the same module again. Apperently nothing worked. The 2nd time it happened I called the Ford rep and have been working with Ford as well as the Dealer. So when they started circling around and replacing parts they previously replaced, I said its time to either fix it or get me a new one. Plus they had it in the shop since the begining of Dec. so N. Carolina law requires a fix or replace to make the consumer whole after 20 buisness days, which it has been. I've been driving rental cars longer than I got to drive the C-Max, and they have shown that I really don't like much of Fords other lines as much! Anyhow, when presented with the option of the buyback I explained I did like the car but was concerned that this was a bigger issue, and the Ford rep said that he called other dealers (people who called and raiased a concern in thier system) to see if they were seeing this same type of electrical spike, and non of them reported that the issue was exactly the same. I know that an early poster reported that faultly instrument pannel was the culprit on his C-Max, and it is likely that there are several issues, one of which I think you've started to uncover Salman, which is that Hybrids in general are using smaller weaker batteries which may be more suspectible to damage when drained. Weight makes all the difference in these cars, so its understandable that they want to put the smallest, lightest battery in them to keep weight down, and I think if every person were having issues there would be larger outcry. Still it seems you roll the dice a bit with these, and since I like the vehical (when the battery doesn't get drained!) I decided to take another gamble. If I end up back in maintanence hell, I'll probably take a buyback the 2nd time and buy a Suburu Outback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid dude Posted January 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 As the originator of this post, thanks to everyone who has and will continue to contribute information. As suggested, I reported my second dead battery occurrence to Ford, received a reply email that my case was moved to Tier 1 and "A Customer Care Specialist will contact you by close of business tomorrow." ... That was on January 9. I had yet to receive the call so I called this morning and the person said the case was opened and then closed immediately. I am now awaiting another call after so and so discusses with his supervisor. What's the deal? Every email I've received comes from someone named Mea. I don't think there is an actual person with that name, as what are the chances of that person replying to me each time ... I don't know. I love how they also "congratulate you for the purchase of your 2013 Ford C-Max. At Ford, we truly value your business with us." Is this just on par with large corporate customer service protocol? I guess they value the sale but what it takes to get after-sales help and tech support, I may never know. If this is the help within the warranty period, I'm not going to find out what it would be like after the warranty ends. I'd love a buyback and yes, just like mbedit, I probably would get another one. I've complained a lot here and there and my MPGs have taken a nose dive due to cold weather and cold weather short trips but I really enjoy it for several reasons: 1. It really drives and handles well and has surprisingly good power, just like European vehicles of which I previously owned, probably because it is designed in Europe. 2. The ability to go totally electric on a 0.5 mile trip to the market and various other EV only situations. However, I wouldn't buy an Energi model because that larger battery leaves much less room to carry stuff. I rarely have the option to haul things in the back seats as they are usually occupied with kids. Also, running an outlet to our condo parking lot would be quite a feat, a battle for which I'm not yet ready to fight. 3. Kids have a lot of room in the back seat. Anyway, I'll step off the soapbox for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salman Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 As the originator of this post, thanks to everyone who has and will continue to contribute information. As suggested, I reported my second dead battery occurrence to Ford, received a reply email that my case was moved to Tier 1 and "A Customer Care Specialist will contact you by close of business tomorrow." ... That was on January 9. I had yet to receive the call so I called this morning and the person said the case was opened and then closed immediately. I am now awaiting another call after so and so discusses with his supervisor. What's the deal? Every email I've received comes from someone named Mea. I don't think there is an actual person with that name, as what are the chances of that person replying to me each time ... I don't know. I love how they also "congratulate you for the purchase of your 2013 Ford C-Max. At Ford, we truly value your business with us." Is this just on par with large corporate customer service protocol? Way back in December I sent an e-mail to Ford via the company website and never received a reply. So I called them via phone, and then called several more times to follow-up until several days later a "Customer Care Manager" called me back. Ignore the e-mail and use the phone, and be persistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewwx Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 My Service Manager just called. He told me he was able to drive my car around for about 200 yards even though the key was in his desk. He now thinks it might be a shut down/shut off issue. He is going to call the service hot line again with this info. He wants Ford to send an engineer out here to look at the car. So it will be interesting to see how they respond. Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkraider Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 If his desk is close enough to the car, he can drive the car all day anywhere he wants until the gas runs out. Once the car is started it doesn't require the key until you turn it off again. Although I would hope it would give you a warning. Maybe I will play with it tomorrow and see how it plays out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoutsNC Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 As Valk said, as long as it's started with the key inside the car, the car can be driven until fuel runs out. There have been several times that I have left my key in my pocket while the valet drove off in it. I don't think that there is any proximity sensor to turn the car off if the key is outside. I do know that the horn will sound if you leave the car on and get out of the car, yet someone can get in and drive away if it's unlocked and on. CNCGeek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkraider Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 I have read about people with proximity keys who have gotten stranded. Say a wife or friend gives someone a ride to work and the someone has the key. They get out and go in to work while the other person without the key drives off in the car thinking all is OK until they stop somewhere else and are then stranded because the key is back with the person at work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salman Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Glad I like the old fashioned key-in-the-ignition set up. Please keep us all posted on the engineer's visit. Should be interesting. pomtrey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewwx Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 The Car was not on. I hope the proximity key does not have more than a 10 foot range. I don't want to leave my keys on the dining room table - start the car - drive to work and be stranded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoutsNC Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 I do believe that the keyfob has to be inside the car to actually start it. After it's started, you can leave the car with the key and leave it running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salman Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Andrew Wow. that is freaky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valkraider Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 I just tried. I set the key on my work bench three feet from the car, got in and hit start. "No Key Detected". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbedit Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Way back in December I sent an e-mail to Ford via the company website and never received a reply. So I called them via phone, and then called several more times to follow-up until several days later a "Customer Care Manager" called me back. Ignore the e-mail and use the phone, and be persistent. I never bothered with e-mail I went straight to the customer care center, and I've found them to be responsive. Typically they explain when they will contact me the next time, and if they don't get to me on the day they say they will, I call and they, have either picked up or promptly called me back. The thing to understand is its a process. As soon as I started having issues, I educated myself on the state/local laws of what my rights and recourses are, just in case things don't go well. Even though its frustrating and a dissapointment, you have to give Ford the oppertunity to fix the issue and make you whole, once they can't, only then can you exercise your right to a buyback/replacement. I've found that they seem to respond well to being level headed, asking questions and asking for a commitment and follow up. Yelling or ranting about things isn't going to advance your cause really, and in the end these are people that trying to do a job so you have to try and let them do it, but help them so you get your issue resolved. Thats why forms like this are important, so we can share ino with them to help them. Keep any and all documentation, and if you think you need to, talk to a lawer. Federal law says that, you as a consumer, don't have to pay a lawer for resolving warrrenty issues. The car company does, but the lawer won't take your case unless certain criteria are met, but they will educate you on what that criteria is. So either way the information is free. pomtrey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtb9153 Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 Not sure how anyone is supposed to know how to check the battery, the owners manual under scheduled maintenance says to check "Battery performance" (gee thanks Ford) - my idea, make sure the connections are clean & tight also the eye (on top of the battery) is green. (12 volt hybrid batteries are different, ideally they would be in stock)I have a question, where is the 12volt battery located on a hybrid model cmax? I have yet to find it on mine. Also there is a hard black plastic looking box in the back of the car underneath near the muffler. I keep wondering what it is? It is about the size of a 12volt battery. I wondered if it is in the back and not under the hood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSmith1915 Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 Lift up the cover in the back. On the right side there is a storage compartment, lift the rubber mat up and then lift the plastic cover, that is where the 12 volt battery is located. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurel Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Mbedit I have a question or two for you please. I have read through all your posts trying to find exactly why Ford is doing a buy back. Am I correct in saying you have had a dead battery twice and basically they have not been able to find out why? And the dead battery x 2 is the only problem with your car? There seem to be lots of folks on the forum with dead batteries repeatedly and no rationale for them. Just wondering why Ford is being so pro-active with your situation? I know from reading that you have been very in their face with phone calls, but is it your assertiveness that resulted in your outcome, or do they suspect major problems with your car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbedit Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Laurel, The 2nd time Ford dug into my vehicle they found an abnormal spike that could be the reason for my battery getting drained, they worked and work very hard to try and fix that problem, but have not yet been successful. I wouldn't say I was assertive or "in their face" as much as just being proactive. The simple matter is that a new vehicle should not have to be jumped to started. At least not since in invention of the electric starter back in 1911! So, after buying a new car and having it behave that way, I instantly brought it in. The 2nd time I brought it in and Called the Ford Customer Service to start getting the issue escalated. Even after that, they have had my vehicle in the shop since the end of Nov. In NC, under the New Motor Vehicles Warranties Act, A vehicle that can't be repaired (for the same issue) in 4 tries, or is in the shop a cumulative of 20 or more business days (in a 12 month period) must be refunded or replaced. Ford has had my C-max in the shop more than 40 business days now, so I've given them much more time to get it fixed then I needed to. After the 30 days I requested the buyback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurel Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Mbedit thank you for your reply. I wasn't being critical of you by wondering if you were in their faces or assertive---just trying to get a sense of whether Ford is viewing these dead batteries as a serious flaw in the cars --thus warranting a buy back or whether your car had a more serious issue. I think that you are saying the discovery of an "abnormal spike" makes it different from the dead batteries that others have experienced. Or perhaps the other dead battery owners haven't had mechanics delve so deeply as yours did? I want to stay informed in case something surfaces with my car down the road. Thanks so much for telling your story as it could help all of us down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbedit Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Yes, I would say that is the difference. No offense taken Laurel, but I always assume in public forums like this that even Ford reps can be reading and lurking, and so I would always want to be represented the way I have treated them, just as I know they would want to be represented fairly, and, for the record, thus far, I think they have been fair and equitable on handling and resolving the issue. Only once was there a hint that Ford might think some of these are related, and from reading some other accounts, I'm sure there are a few categories of issues. If it were me I'd be trying to sort them into buckets this way, 1. Its something the owner did, e.g. leaving the door ajar or a light left on. These are easy to do, but doesn't warrant anything wrong with the car. 2. There is a just a defect part. e.g. a bad battery or some part needing replacement... this is manufacturing issue, but a certain number of bad parts will hit the supply chain, and they just have to be fixed. 3. There is something else going on, a subtle design flaw, and Ford needs to identify it and figure it out. For the moment, based on the feedback, I'm assuming mine falls into the #2 bucket, and since Ford has been unable to repair I'll be happy with a replacement. IF I get another and it does the same thing... well, then I'll probably be right back here going through this process again... and next time I'll just get a refund and have to go elsewhere, but I'll worry about that if and when it comes around. For the moment I'm still giving Ford products my support as I do actually like the car, I just want one that works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewwx Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 I really hope it is number 2 and Ford that figures it out soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtorres Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 It would be sad if it's #1 because my last three Fords going back to 1998 all had what Ford called the "battery minder" feature. It turned off accessory power if it detected the battery power dropping low enough that the car might not start. Short of a bad battery you couldn't accidentally drain the battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roninsd Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 I may not be 100% correct, but it looks like most of the battery issues are with the SE, and not the SEL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtorres Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) Unfortunately that does appear true :-( On the upside for us SE owners most of the issues with reverse not working and the car being accidentally left on are limited to the SEL owners ;-) Edited January 23, 2013 by dtorres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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