Considering Purchasing 2013, worried about battery

[craze]

I'm in the market for a c max because it is the only hybrid that is big enough for a family and gets good mileage that I fit in (not even with a prius).  Obviously there have been a lot of battery concerns.  Other than the poll here, is there any evidence that later builds of the 2013 cmax had better luck with batteries?  Local dealer still has 3 2013's on the lot and I'm sure I could get a great deal.  They were all built in November of 2013.  If this darn car were just the least bit reliable, I'd be all in.  Has everything else I need!

[webcontrol]

I think you will have a great experience with C-MAX. I have 2013 model, and my friends with long legs are also driving 2013 C-MAX after seeing mine. One of my friend had battery problem once. I never had any.  My purchase was earlier than that friend had one problem.

 

My son loves this C-MAX better than our Lexus SUV for its responsiveness and driving a long time without worry running out gas.  My friend told me their family love C-MAX better than their Acura sedan because the leg room in front and back row.  I am getting average 45.7MPG for last year and half. My friend got 48MPG for his last 25,000 miles. 

[plus 3 golfer]

craze, welcome.  The short answer is we don't know.  No one on this site (AFAIK) that has compiled a comprehensive list of owners that have had the battery issue and done analysis.  The poll is likely not a good reference only a starting point for analysis.  It appears that owners have had battery issues after they've had all updates that supposedly remedied the issue.

 

A few things to consider which are not based on analysis, just my thoughts and recollection.  I'm sure others will jump in if they disagree. 

 

1) The failure rate seems to be fairly small but owners that have had a no start seem to have a higher likelihood of multiple no starts suggesting the root cause is not a random occurrence but may be related to the operational environment and conditions.   

2) It seems that the no start occurs virtually always at home.  It seems the car need to be off for a period of time (say 10 - 12 hours) suggesting a large drain on the 12V battery.

3) It also seems that the no start issue occurs earlier rather than later after in-service.  In other words, if one hasn't had a no start issue within XX months, the likelihood of a no start diminishes.

4) It seems that the SEL and Energi models have a less likelihood of a no start as it appears that Ford updates to fix the no start targeted the SE model.

 

There are certain things one can do to lessen the inconvenience of or hedge against a no start (in no particular order).

 

1) Carry a set of jumper cables under the driver's seat (I do this).

2) Carry a small battery jump start kit as it appears that is all that is needed to allow the electronics to operate and start the car.

3) Put the battery on a trickle charger.

4) Monitor the 12 V battery voltage as an indication of state of charge.

 

The C-Max is a great car.  Only you can weighs the pros and cons.  One last thought and that is Ford appears to be receptive to buybacks under lemon laws for those that have had the issue multiple times. 

Edited April 1, 2014 by Plus 3 Golfer

[craze]

Great points.  I know buying a first year model is risky with any car,  especially such a high tech one.  I would just buy a 2014 but I believe those are still having similar issues.  Is there any evidence the 2014's have been better?  I don't care about the bells and whistles so I would gladly go for a 2014 se model

[Jus-A-CMax]

I think its imperative you select a good, large, reputable Ford dealer like Galpin Ford, here in Van Nuys, CA. If you have any issues, then you have the confidence that they are large enough and CARE enough about the cars they sell to give you top customer service. While I am not inferring smaller dealers are bad, they may not have the volume or expertise to properly handle a complex car like the CMax when it comes to trouble shooting the hard issues like battery. The 13b07 update showed up a ton of Ford dealers that were not ready.

 

So rank the dealer/service over $$$. Jus my 2c and good luck with it.

 

For the record, my CMax is @28,000 and not single battery issue except when it was banged up and the body shop did not turn off the light in the final drive testing. No big deal, its been fine since.

[lowbar]

I have a 2013 SEL that was built in Feb. 2013.  I bought it in March so it is now 13 months old and has 15k miles on it.  I have not experienced the battery problem or any other failure.  My car has only been to the dealer for routine maintainence and updates.  ...and yes I am knocking on wood.

[ptjones]

Craze with your concern I would suggest going with an SEL  to minimize the risk and carry jumper battery. Then you don't have anything  to worry about. IMO :)

 

Paul

[craze]

One other question that I can't seem to find a clear answer on even from the Ford website which has the full C Max warranty posted.  Do all warranties transfer to the new owner if the car is sold?  I've considered used but I'd definitely want one still under warranty.

[ScubaDadMiami]

I've not had a single battery issue with my 2013, which will be a year old next month. I sometimes do not drive for up to two weeks or so, and I never had an issue with the battery from the vehicle just sitting for that long. On the other hand, I have the SEL, and the battery issues have been more widely reported on the SE.

 

Not that this is the answer, but it seems that at least a few of the battery problems have been on vehicles that have been sitting on the dealer lot for a long time, draining the battery, and possibly doing damage to it. Perhaps you can make the dealer put in a new battery on any of the vehicles that you are considering.

[webcontrol]

Craze,

 

I am not sure Ford would exclude 2nd owner from any warranty services. In my experience, car warranty is car warranty, it is not fixed on owner.  However, where it was originally sold may affect its EV warranty length from state to state. In California, EV warranty that including battery, motor, and transmission is 80,000 miles or 8 years (I think, not sure), some states only have six year and 60,000 miles EV warranty. Engine and other body parts have 3 year 36,000 miles warranty.

 

Because the engine is not always running in warm states like CA, FL, etc, gasoline engine could last much longer in those warm states than in cold states.

[Edsel]

I wouldn't consider used unless you get a complete service history.  Reliability could be the reason for the trade in.

[ptjones]

One other question that I can't seem to find a clear answer on even from the Ford website which has the full C Max warranty posted.  Do all warranties transfer to the new owner if the car is sold?  I've considered used but I'd definitely want one still under warranty.

There is a transfer fee so the warranty stays with car for what's left and I think it is 8yrs/100k mi.Hybrid stuff and I got my whole warranty extended to 4yrs/100k from 3yrs/36k. :)

 

Paul

[cmak2]

I have a 2013 SE model and have experienced the dead-battery drain symptom 6 times now.  As of yesterday, Ford is most definitely NOT receptive to replacing my vehicle under my state ( Georgia)  lemon laws, they told me to "just take it back to the dealership, it's still under warrantee".    Overall, I love the car and the great gas mileage.   The "dead car syndrome"  occurs always at home after being in the garage.   It has had multiple attempts to correct the problem.   It has occurred after 2,  3,  5, 8, 10, and 15 months of ownership.  I have only 8300 miles on it. Not all the 2013 models have this problem,  buyer beware.

[fbov]

...It seems that the SEL and Energi models have a less likelihood of a no start as it appears that Ford updates to fix the no start targeted the SE model.

+1 no issues with my SEL, just oil changes and the recalls/updates as we puch 25K miles, 8K since we took ownership (inherited from Father-in-law who had no issues either).

Frank

[MarkS]

I have a 2013 SE that I purchased in April 2013 and don't drive all that much (< 6K miles on it).  I have had all of the Recall services and didn't expect any problems and the car has been great.  This morning I got home around 8AM and left the car in the carport.  Tonight I went out to use it at 10PM and the 12V battery was dead ... decided to call Ford Roadside Assistance and they sent someone out to jump it 25 min later.  I actually have AAA and my own jumper, but wanted to watch "an expert" do the first jump on the C-Max, and also to ensure that Ford has a record of the problem.

 

Now what has me suspicious is that I forgot to leave my window's cracked, the carport lets the afternoon sun shine on the car (it was parked with the back end to the afternoon sun), and after the car was jumped this evening the AC came on but I wasn't using it this morning.  Is it possible that the C-Max will auto-run the AC (and thereby drain the 12V battery) if the car's internal temperature gets too high???  I've been browsing my User Manual but can't find anything to confirm or deny this suspicion.

[shinytop]

Pretty sure not, at least in the 2014.  Mine is parked in the open at work and we have been having sunny days with 95+ days all week and 80+ before that.  No indication that the a/c has been on.

[plus 3 golfer]

There is nothing I can find in the Ford Service Manual that indicates the ac activates when the car is OFF and the cabin temperature reaches a trigger level.  Just yesterday the ambient was 108F when I picked my car up at the dealer.  I presume the car was in the sun from about 9 am when I got a call it was ready until about 2 pm when I picked it up.  The climate system ran at about 4 kW for about 4 miles until the cabin temperature got about set point of 74F at which time the fan speed dropped and the usage dropped to less than 1 kW.  Suffice it to say that the interior was very hot. 

 

Someone recently posted that their dealer indicated Ford believes the problem might be that the electric coolant pump may start  / continue to run after shutdown discharging  the 12 V battery.  This seems consistent with Ford indicating that certain connectors in the front lower left had side of the engine bay may allow water intrusion causing a short to ground.  IIRC, the connectors are for the coolant pump, grille shutters, and fog lights.

[Adrian_L]

Now what has me suspicious is that I forgot to leave my window's cracked, the carport lets the afternoon sun shine on the car (it was parked with the back end to the afternoon sun), and after the car was jumped this evening the AC came on but I wasn't using it this morning.  Is it possible that the C-Max will auto-run the AC (and thereby drain the 12V battery) if the car's internal temperature gets too high???  I've been browsing my User Manual but can't find anything to confirm or deny this suspicion.

 

No way.  The climate control will not engage unless you turn it on.  There is a (car running) issue with the A/C engaging without "permission" (i.e. after the climate control on/off switch is pressed and the A/C was off before) but that doesn't happen when the car is off in a parking lot.

 

As to the original question:  SEL models seem largely immune from battery problems.  A November 2013 build would bode very well.  I like to tell myself that my Nov. 2013 built SEL is more-or-less a 2014. 

[kostby]

There is nothing I can find in the Ford Service Manual that indicates the ac activates when the car is OFF and the cabin temperature reaches a trigger level.  Just yesterday the ambient was 108F when I picked my car up at the dealer.  I presume the car was in the sun from about 9 am when I got a call it was ready until about 2 pm when I picked it up.  The climate system ran at about 4 kW for about 4 miles until the cabin temperature got about set point of 74F at which time the fan speed dropped and the usage dropped to less than 1 kW.  Suffice it to say that the interior was very hot. 

 

Someone recently posted that their dealer indicated Ford believes the problem might be that the electric coolant pump may start  / continue to run after shutdown discharging  the 12 V battery.  This seems consistent with Ford indicating that certain connectors in the front lower left had side of the engine bay may allow water intrusion causing a short to ground.  IIRC, the connectors are for the coolant pump, grille shutters, and fog lights.

 

What about the (high-voltage battery) cooling fan in the rear of the car? I've heard it turn on and run for maybe 5 minutes on our C-MAX hours after the car was last driven.

[BullDurham]

I'm in the market for a c max because it is the only hybrid that is big enough for a family and gets good mileage that I fit in (not even with a prius).  Obviously there have been a lot of battery concerns.  Other than the poll here, is there any evidence that later builds of the 2013 cmax had better luck with batteries?  Local dealer still has 3 2013's on the lot and I'm sure I could get a great deal.  They were all built in November of 2013.  If this darn car were just the least bit reliable, I'd be all in.  Has everything else I need!

I think you would have to be crazy to buy that car.  Why do you suppose the original owner sold it or traded it in?  I am willing to bet it was because of battery problems. Ask the dealer for the original owner's name and telephone number, and call him yourself.  I am in exactly the same situation:  I am thinking of trading my car just to get away from this problem.  I would not think of selling it privately on Craig's list, simply because I could not in good conscience tell a prospective buyer that I had no problems with it.  And, believe me, word has gotten around about the issues with this car:  I took it to Carmax and they offered me $16,000 for a car that I paid over $26,000 for a year-and-a-half ago.  That's a nearly forty percent loss of value for a car with 7500 miles on it.  Why do you suppose that dealer would give you a "great deal?"

 

Here's my situation.  I bought the car in November 2012.  I took it in for service in December of 2013 (with 5800 miles on it) in response to the Ford recall that was supposed to fix the the battery problem.  The service advisor said they replaced the battery because it was almost entirely drained.  I thought I was lucky.  In February, 2013, I went out one morning, and the battery was dead.  It was towed to the dealer.  They did another fix that was supposed to deal with the battery problem.  (Cold weather was causing it to drain, they said.  I live in North Carolina, well known for its arctic winters, of course.)  They recharged the battery.  In June, I took it in for two more recalls, and asked them to check the battery.  They replaced the battery, again.  So now I'm on my third battery.  I went out this morning and the battery is dead.  It's the Fourth of July, and so the service department at the dealership will not be open until Monday.  So all weekend with no car.   

 

Here's the additional rub.  I was diagnosed with cancer a couple of weeks ago, and in about a week, I will have to begin five-day-a-week radiation and chemotherapy treatment.  I need a reliable car to get there, not this POS.

 

So all of the people who talk about how they love the mileage, the ride, the acceleration, etc. etc. are doing you no favors.  The fact remains that someone traded in that car for a reason, and it probably wasn't because they decided they didn't like the color.  I bought this car when it first came out, and in retrospect, that was stupid.  But stupider still, would be to buy this car, knowing that it has problems that Ford can't or won't fix.  Caveat emptor.  You've been warned.   

[ptjones]

I think you would have to be crazy to buy that car.  Why do you suppose the original owner sold it or traded it in?  I am willing to bet it was because of battery problems. Ask the dealer for the original owner's name and telephone number, and call him yourself.  I am in exactly the same situation:  I am thinking of trading my car just to get away from this problem.  I would not think of selling it privately on Craig's list, simply because I could not in good conscience tell a prospective buyer that I had no problems with it.  And, believe me, word has gotten around about the issues with this car:  I took it to Carmax and they offered me $16,000 for a car that I paid over $26,000 for a year-and-a-half ago.  That's a nearly forty percent loss of value for a car with 7500 miles on it.  Why do you suppose that dealer would give you a "great deal?"

 

Here's my situation.  I bought the car in November 2012.  I took it in for service in December of 2013 (with 5800 miles on it) in response to the Ford recall that was supposed to fix the the battery problem.  The service advisor said they replaced the battery because it was almost entirely drained.  I thought I was lucky.  In February, 2013, I went out one morning, and the battery was dead.  It was towed to the dealer.  They did another fix that was supposed to deal with the battery problem.  (Cold weather was causing it to drain, they said.  I live in North Carolina, well known for its arctic winters, of course.)  They recharged the battery.  In June, I took it in for two more recalls, and asked them to check the battery.  They replaced the battery, again.  So now I'm on my third battery.  I went out this morning and the battery is dead.  It's the Fourth of July, and so the service department at the dealership will not be open until Monday.  So all weekend with no car.   

 

Here's the additional rub.  I was diagnosed with cancer a couple of weeks ago, and in about a week, I will have to begin five-day-a-week radiation and chemotherapy treatment.  I need a reliable car to get there, not this POS.

 

So all of the people who talk about how they love the mileage, the ride, the acceleration, etc. etc. are doing you no favors.  The fact remains that someone traded in that car for a reason, and it probably wasn't because they decided they didn't like the color.  I bought this car when it first came out, and in retrospect, that was stupid.  But stupider still, would be to buy this car, knowing that it has problems that Ford can't or won't fix.  Caveat emptor.  You've been warned.   

I'm confused, You say you're without a car, but you have had this happen a number of times now, don't you have a jumper battery to cover you when this happens, I sure would. IMHO Having a dead battery should only be a minor 5min. inconvenience of opening the hood and connect jumper battery cables, just about anyone can do this. Jumper battery goes for around $50-$60.Then you can go to the Dealer when it is convenient for you. :)    

[BullDurham]

I'm confused, You say you're without a car, but you have had this happen a number of times now, don't you have a jumper battery to cover you when this happens, I sure would. IMHO Having a dead battery should only be a minor 5min. inconvenience of opening the hood and connect jumper battery cables, just about anyone can do this. Jumper battery goes for around $50-$60.Then you can go to the Dealer when it is convenient for you. :)    

The first time the battery died, Ford Roadside Assistance sent a guy to jump it, and he could not get it started.  It had to be towed.  A jumper cable might work sometime.  But I want a permanent fix to the problem.  Is that unreasonable on a car that is a year and a half old and has 7600 miles on it?  

[ptjones]

The first time the battery died, Ford Roadside Assistance sent a guy to jump it, and he could not get it started.  It had to be towed.  A jumper cable might work sometime.  But I want a permanent fix to the problem.  Is that unreasonable on a car that is a year and a half old and has 7600 miles on it?  

What happened the other times? Did you try to jumping or charging the battery? :)

 

Paul

[Adrian_L]

I'm confused, You say you're without a car, but you have had this happen a number of times now, don't you have a jumper battery to cover you when this happens, I sure would. IMHO Having a dead battery should only be a minor 5min. inconvenience of opening the hood and connect jumper battery cables, just about anyone can do this. Jumper battery goes for around $50-$60.Then you can go to the Dealer when it is convenient for you. :)    

I'm confused too.  The car was towed because it had a dead battery?  I'd get a booster pack if I were you.  I think mine was $50 on sale and has got me out of a jam many times (not with the C-max but with a VW van).  I know you want a permanent fix but......

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original post was referring to brand-new 2013 models on a dealer's lot.  They have not had previous drivers as Bull alluded to.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Adrian_L

[BullDurham]

What happened the other times? Did you try to jumping or charging the battery? :)

 

Paul

Not that it matters, Paul, but here's the story:  I took it in for the recall that was supposed to fix the battery problem.  They told me that the battery was so run down that they replaced it. That was December of 2013, and that's incident number one.  In February, Ione fine morning, it was drained and would not start.  It could not be jumped, and was towed.  The dealer recharged the battery and did something, claiming that it was cold weather that caused the problem.  That was incident number 2.   I took it in for two recalls in June, and asked them to check the battery.  They told me they replaced it.  That's incident number three.  Now, today, it was dead, and that's incident number four.  No, I have not tried jumping it today.  You see, my previous car was a Toyota that I had for 13 years, and before that I had a Honda for ten years, and together, both of them spent less time in the shop in 23 years than the C-Max has spent in a year and a half.   So I, unlike you, am not used to cars that need to carry around a mechanical shop in the the trunk.

 

I think your attitude is indicative of what's wrong with Detroit.  If there are persistent problems, somehow it's the customer's fault for not doing something differently.