Announcing Advance Notice 14C03 Compliance Recall

[ArizonaEnergi]

No recall notice for my 12/20/2012 build-date car. It appears I missed the bullet on this one.

 

"Ford and the seatback manufacturer also continued to review manufacturing records from the beginning of production (beginning of the 2013 model year) through November 2013 when corrective actions were fully implemented at the manufacturing facility."

[ScubaDadMiami]

"A review of the detailed supplier manufacturing information available for the field return parts identified certain production conditions that could result in sub-standard seat recliner welds."

 

I wonder if this means that Ford will not absolutely have to replace the parts, but only to inspect to determine if this is required.

 

I can't detect any issue with my seats, so I am going to add this to the list for when I do the 10,000 service, which should be in about mid-May.

[rhea]

Since I just took my Energi in for this recall, I will tell you what I was told by the dealership. They are required to inspect the joints. If the inspection determines the back/s need/s to be replaced, they will order the part/s. Again, from the dealership, the parts are not yet available. In my case, it appears one seatback needs to be replaced. The letter from Ford was misleading as far as I was concerned. It did not indicate that parts were not yet available, nor did it speak to an inspection to determine need. I was glad that the inspection was required. No one wants to have his car "torn up"--an exaggeration in this case, if not necessary.

[Marc Smith]

2013 was the first US model.  but hasn't the cmax been in production in europe in its current form since 2010...

 

One would have though that some of the growing pains would have been ironed out in the European production runs.

[kostby]

European C-MAX and relatives likely don't use the same seat manufacturer (Mexico) as the North American-spec model assembled in Michigan.

[DaveofDurham]

Does anyone know whether the replacement parts in this recall are internal (e.g., seat frame) parts only or entire upholstered seat backs?

[Marc Smith]

Kos,

 

Agreed, probably not...from mexico....

 

but some of the other recall stuff  coudl also be  just result of a new production line...

 

Still a better recall history than toyota....

[MichaelM]

@DaveofDurham it involves the seat frame and requires replacement.

[DaveofDurham]

@DaveofDurham it involves the seat frame and requires replacement.

I know the problem is with the seat back frames. What I want to know is if you have a bad seat back frame do they replace the entire seat back (i.e. the frame and the upholstery) OR do they replace the frame and reuse the original upholstery?

[Ponypower]

2014 Ruby Red CMax here in Chicago, not one single problem, 3900 miles, average MPG life time 42.7  She's a keeper, and a blast to drive.

[salsaguy]

Yes I agree Ford is best to stay on top of it. GM will be scarred flee life with their bad handing of the issue.

 

And yes it's difficult to inspect for weld issues. Some are surface issues you can see with a loupe. Some you need to use NDT methods and special X-Ray fluorescent testing or dye penetrant to detect.

Most likely the seats are done outside by a subtler supplier. I know when I was interviewing for a job one time for the company that made the heated and cooked seats in the Cadillac and Lexus cars many years ago.

Most car companies outsource alot of the sub assemblies and only do the key components and processes in-house.

Hope they get past it quickly. It is critical since a bad welds can crack and not maintain the strength of the seats during a crash.

Since welds can be done manually or by robots they have to determine if the person was not trained properly or doing bad work and not checking after them selvesor if the machine was out of whack that caused the lesser quality weld joint.

Hard to believe it wasn't caught sooner if they were doing random spot destructive tests to verify the quality.

I worked in the automotive industry for an OEM supplier of electronic equipment that went into Chrysler cars at the time. Knowing what I know they do crazy amounts of testing and not just once but repeatedly each month and quarterly and there is an insane amount of paperwork the supplier has to submit to Ford to show their process / manufacturing system is set-up correctly and there are controls and systems in place to prevent problems. and if there is a problem it's usually caught earlier on when the part is still at the suppliers site instead of getting out into the field or to the end user/customer, as was the case here.

 

With the millions of cars sold each year it is amazing just how few problems there are.

I'm sure Ford is on top of it unlike what GM did (err, hump, DIDNT do).

 

Even the smallest quality issues can cost someone their life.

 

salsaguy

Senior Quality Engineer for a manufacturing company

 

I would agree with you if this was a design flaw, but it sounds like a manufacturing welding quality control problem and FORD may not even make the seats. Most of us haven't had any significant problems with our CMAX's. Personally I don't think software updates count, our personal computers are being updated all the time, that a way of life these days. Given the GM problems, I think FORD is being very careful not have something like that happen to them. IMO It will be interesting to see the solution they come up with for this problem. It may be difficult to tell if a weld is bad or not. :)

 

Paul

Edited September 26, 2014 by salsaguy

[salsaguy]

Ashley, how do we know if the cars on the lots for sale are available to buy or not or would they have to keep those out of view and not allowed to be seen by a prospective customer?

If a new buyer like me wants a new CMax will they fix the cars that are sold but not yet delivered in the first round of repairs?

Or is it by region?

Should we just wait a few months for this to be over before we can go car shopping?

Or do we just buy a custom cmax built new from the factory?

Are the new ones coming off the line in the factory using a different process so new ones won't have this issue?

 

Thanks

 

Hi folks,

 

If you're concerned about whether this recall applies to your vehicle, check out the Ford Owner website. If it applies to you, I recommend keeping in touch with your dealer so you will be notified when the parts arrive to perform the recall.

 

Ashley

Edited June 28, 2014 by salsaguy

[salsaguy]

It depends on manufacturing date not model for this issue.

The assembly is most likely compatible/the same for each version. The trim level would affect the covering (leather vs cloth) .

 

Recall didn't show up for my feb 2013 SEL, so maybe it applies to the SE seats.

[Marc Smith]

my 2013 SEL  got the notice when I logged into the ford website...

 

On way to took at this is that  there have been no deaths int he c-max (to my knowledge) as a result of any recalls  or as a result of failing to issue a recall....

 

I had a f150  that had the ignition switch problem.   It torched up pretty good I got the fire out and was able to save the vehicle.  thankfully it wasn't parked in the garage overnight with the family asleep inside when it happened...

 

Every company has these moments of conscience...in which  they have to weight the value of potential lawsuits VS  the cost of issuing a massive recall..  And I think every company  has made the wrong choice, at least once....some  many times...

Edited June 5, 2014 by Marc Smith

[kostby]

RE: Salsaguy 05-June-2014 2:21 am post

 

Quoting from the second document I linked above on 12 April 2014, 2:39 pm, my italics, and my emphasis

http://www-odi.nhtsa...14V164-8361.pdf

 

"On March 24, 2014, Ford's Field Review Committee reviewed this concern and approved a field

action.

573.6 © (8) - Service Program

Ford will notify dealers to stop demonstrating or delivering the affected vehicles until the

seatbacks are replaced. Ford will notify owners and instruct them to take their vehicles to a

Ford or Lincoln dealer for seatback replacement. There will be no charge to owners for this

service.

Mailing of owner notification letters will occur during the week of May 19, 2014. Initial

notification to dealers will occur on April 2, 2014."

[FordService]

Ashley, how do we know if the cars on the lots for sale are available to buy or not or would they have to keep those out of view and not allowed to be seen by a prospective customer?

If s new bitter like me wants a new CMax will they fix the cars that are sold but not yet delivered in the first round of repairs?

Or is it by region?

Should we just wait a few months for this to be over before we can go car shopping?

Or do we just buy a custom cmax built new from the factory?

Are the new ones coming off the line in the factory using a different process so new ones won't have this issue?

 

Thanks

 

salsaguy,

 

Because dealers are independently owned and operated, it is hard for me to guess how each dealer will go about getting this recall taken care of on the existing vehicles on their lots. They won't be able to sell them until the recall has been performed, however. Your best bet is to give the dealer and call and ask about their stock and whether they've been able to take care of the stock yet, that way you'll know before you get there to look. If you order your C-Max, it will have any recalls performed before you pick it up.

 

Ashley

[MichaelM]

Does anyone know whether the replacement parts in this recall are internal (e.g., seat frame) parts only or entire upholstered seat backs?

 

@DaveofDurham sorry, I think of these as separate entities, they must replace seatback frames and reuse upolstery and internal components (i.e. heater, airbags, lumbar support etc..) It's like a 14 page procedure.

Edited June 5, 2014 by MichaelM

[DaveofDurham]

@DaveofDurham sorry, I think of these as separate entities, they must replace seatback frames and reuse upolstery and internal components (i.e. heater, airbags, lumbar support etc..) It's like a 14 page procedure.

 

MichaelM -

 

Thanks for the update.  I was hoping the replacement would be an entire new seatback with fresh clean upholstery.  I'm not surprised that it's the frame only because an entire seatback must be very expensive.  I wonder how good the service techs will be at removing and reinstalling the upholstery?

[fbov]

With the right tools, fixing a seatback frame isn't a big deal. I broke a seatback weld on one of my Volvos once. The only hard part required ring pliers, a special tool for the metal rings used to keep things in place, that I didn't buy.

 

I'm in the recall group as well, just got the letter, and I am disappointed that they're not supplying parts, rather ordering them when they get a recalled vehicle. At the same time, if this is keeping cars in dealer inventory, one can understand why those cars might have priority.

 

HAve fun,

Frank

[DaveofDurham]

With the right tools, fixing a seatback frame isn't a big deal. I broke a seatback weld on one of my Volvos once. The only hard part required ring pliers, a special tool for the metal rings used to keep things in place, that I didn't buy.

 

I'm in the recall group as well, just got the letter, and I am disappointed that they're not supplying parts, rather ordering them when they get a recalled vehicle. At the same time, if this is keeping cars in dealer inventory, one can understand why those cars might have priority.

 

HAve fun,

Frank

 

Frank -

 

Were you rewelding your broken Volvo seatback frame?

 

For the C-Max seatback frame recall it appears they are replacing the seatback frames that have bad welds.

Edited June 5, 2014 by DaveofDurham

[ScubaDadMiami]

Question: If my dealer inspects this and finds that it is not a problem, will they "clear" it on Etis? I had mine inspected, but I still see it as an issue on the Etis report.

[JAZ]

Took mine in Friday for the recall, service rep said they'd checked about 15 vehicles, found only 1 bad weld.  My passenger seat failed the inspection and I was told it would take about a week for the part to arrive...here in Michigan, about 10 miles from the factory.

[Bill-N]

Took mine in Friday for the recall, service rep said they'd checked about 15 vehicles, found only 1 bad weld.  My passenger seat failed the inspection and I was told it would take about a week for the part to arrive...here in Michigan, about 10 miles from the factory.

 

About how long did it take for the inspection?

[JAZ]

I took it in about 8:30 in the morning, also had the air bag reprogram recall done, plus a complaint about an Audio Off problem (another reprogram issue) and lastly the GPS not always knowing where the vehicle is located (my GPS appears unacquainted with parts of Arkansas).  Anyhoo, the car was ready for pickup by 3 pm that afternoon and have had no issues since then.

[FordService]

Took mine in Friday for the recall, service rep said they'd checked about 15 vehicles, found only 1 bad weld.  My passenger seat failed the inspection and I was told it would take about a week for the part to arrive...here in Michigan, about 10 miles from the factory.

 

JAZ,

 

I'm happy to look into this parts delay for you. Just send me a PM with your name, phone number, VIN, mileage, and dealer info.

 

Ashley