Recreational Towing (behind a motor home)

[wab]

In a few days I'm going to be towing my C-Max behind my motor home for the very first time.  I've got it all rigged - hardware-wise, and electrically, for the lights.  Exactly what is the step-by-step procedure to get it into 'tow-ready' mode?  I don't want to go digging into the emergency brake slot to do any gerry-rigging, as far as shifting it out of Park.  I tried starting it, shifting to neutral, and then turning it off, but that leaves a "Shift to Park" message on the display, along with the 'P-R-N-D-L' display lit.

 

I'll be taking it to a campground only about 20 miles away, so there shouldn't be any 'dead battery' issue to worry about, right?  And do you have to cycle it through the gears before it's ready to go?  :headscratch:

 

Thanks for any replies from 'seasoned' tow-ers!

 

VR

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If you haven't read this whole thread take a look on pg1 post #4.

 

When you DO NOT put your foot on the brake and push the Start/Stop button the cars goes into accessory mode.

 

Pg1 post 4

 

"Just got my cmax setup to tow behind the motorhome. Had Blue OX base plates installed. Towed it home with no problems. Took two weeks to get a firm answer from Ford on proper procedures to setup the car for towing I.E. placing the ignition in accessory mode. Owners manual only explained a keyed ignition, I have the keyless push button. Was told they should be adding those procedures in the owners manual in the future. For those who want to know the procedure, I was told is to start the engine and run it for five minutes then shift into reverse and then into drive, then into neutral. Leaving it in reverse and drive for several seconds. Once you are in neutral take your foot off the brake and then push the start button to shut the car down. You should run the car for five minutes about every 5 to 6 hours if continuing to tow the car. Hope this helps and if anyone was told a different procedure chime in here and let us know."

 

 

When you read this thread be aware that things have changed as more info is gathered/posted.

 

Example: "You should run the car for five"

Nobody has been able to run the motor for 5 minutes.

[jmckinley]

When you hit the button with the car in neutral, it doesn't matter whether your foot is on the brake or not, stuff is still drawing current somewhere in the car and the battery will eventually run down. 

 

I tried all combinations on my six week trip this winter and nothing worked - the battery always ran down.  Didn't find out about the brake shift lock override until I got back home.  Only towed once since then.

 

You're right about running the car for five minutes in neutral.  It is not made that way and that is why my guess is that whoever one of the posters spoke to at Ford didn't know what they were talking about.

 

You can press on the gas pedal and get the engine to run in neutral, but weird stuff starts happening and sometimes it will go to 4000 rpm and you can't get it to stop.  Sometimes nothing happens it just runs about 2000 rpm and then stops. Other times it will rev up and slow down over and over again.  All in all, probably not a good idea to do this. It makes the car unhappy and will probably eventually blow something up, like the transmission.

Edited May 11, 2013 by jmckinley

[alanstri]

Reporting back after my first 2 day, 800 mile tow (keyless entry) using my idea of defeating the mechanical shifter lock: :sad:

 

Day 1: Didn't pay full attention to how I got to neutral.  I had pressed the button, then shifted to neutral while disengaging the mechanical lock.  I noticed the left display showed "shift to park".   I got out, locked the door and towed about 7 hours, 400 miles.  That afternoon, battery dead, had to unlock door with POS key (that's not point of sale) and jump start.

 

Day 2: Started car & pulled into place to hook up; placed shifter in park with my foot on the brake; pressed the On/Off button without my foot on the brake with my door still closed. The left display showed the recap of mileage as usual.  Pulled my little wire that defeats the mechanical shift lock and moved the shifter to neutral - The left display didn't change!  Got out, locked the door, the dash faded to dark as it usually does. I'm thinking success this time.  Towed another 6 hours, 300 miles to our destination.  Ready to un-hook and the keyless entry doesn't work - battery dead again...

 

Unless I learn something on my trip home later this week I will be joining the toad charge gang.  

[alanstri]

A continuation of the post above - and the trip...

 

Day 1 of our return trip;  I think I did exactly what I did on day 2 above.  Drove almost 300 miles up the east coast of Florida through torrential rains, 7 hours of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror!  Arrived at our over-night and had to un-hook (no pull-through available).  Doors unlocked with a touch, started right up.  I will pay closer attention in the AM.

[Instr-Tech]

Does anyone know what the voltage is to the park interlock solenoid. If it is 12vdc, I'm thinking I could use a momentary pushbutton SPDT switch hidden under the dash to activate the park interlock solenoid so I could move the shift lever to neutral without bothering anything else. Pushbutton would be wired as follows:

 

normally closed pole: connect to circuit that activates the park interlock solenoid' (maybe the stoplight circuit?)

 

common pole:            connect to park interlock solenoid hot wire

 

normally open pole:   connect to a always-hot 12vdc source with an auto-reset circuit breaker.

 

If this would work, all I would have to do to get ready to tow is push the button and shift to neutral. Nothing else would be affected....

Also, does anyone know yet if there are electrical things (like a transmission lube pump) that need to be active when towing?

 

What do y'all think?????

[Mi-C]

Hi to all other C-toads : -). We had Blue Ox , In Nebraska install our system to recreational tow. Fwiw - ours is Aventa LX tow bar; separate bulb/wiring in tail light/ brake lights BX8869 (yes - room to have separate bulb in space, so no diodes, and power for lighting comes from umbilical, using RV 12v power -- not C 12v). Blue Ox baseplate for C-Max, and we bought the Patriot Brake 2012 system (Blue Ox says these are fine w/hybrid and the regen-brake system on C). not a lot of tow miles just yet, but system worked without problems last fall w approx. 170 mile distance, < 4 hrs drive time in tow behind RV -each way. We do follow the Ford instructions to tow (steps as discussed this forum, leaving C in accessory while towing). We do not have a charge line, but may look into that if we find battery issues drained w/tow future times? Only issue we found in our limited # miles experience tow C so far, was Patriot Brake tripped Error code, one trip so we stopped, disconnected C, driving RV and C separately, not towed, and returned 50 miles to home where we could double ck supplemental brake set-up. think it may have moved in the car floor area which caused a balance shift in Patriot thus causing error??

we will post more updates as we RV more distance/towing time this season. Best wishes to all fellow C-Toads out there!

[Halberstadt]

Earlier in this forum (around mid-March), there were a couple of posts by folks who planned to use a "tow dolly" to tow their C-Max Hybrid. Assuming that "tow dolly" means two wheels on the ground and two on the dolly, this would be an exceptionally bad idea. Ford points out, in the Owner's Manual, that these cars with CVTs (continuously variable transmissions) can be towed with all 4 wheels on a trailer or all 4 wheels on the ground, but that "2 wheels down" will cause catastrophic harm to the transmission. Don't do it!

 

Bill Halberstadt

[jmckinley]

If you tow on a dolly with the front wheels off the ground, I don't see how that could bother the transmission.  This car is front wheel drive, and the rear axle is just a dead axle, like a trailer axle.

[Mi-C]

Does your C-Max register TOWING miles when flat-towed behind an RV? And, need advice on what and how to connect charge line? thanks to all : -)

[jmckinley]

C Max odometer does not accumulate mileage while towing.

 

Look at your owner's manual.  It shows how to hook up jumper cables to two terminals under the hood to jump start.  That's where you hook up the charge line.  Easier that way since 12V battery is under the floor way in the back under the cargo area.

[willald]

Hello,

  I'm a member of an RV-related forum, and this thread, forum was recently broght to my attention.  We've been camping/RVing for many years.  Have owned a Motorhome for just over a year, and a few months ago, we purchased a 2013 Fusion Hybrid to tow behind it.

 

  Anyway, I know I don't own a CMax, which this forum is intended for.  However, I think my experience with the Fusion Hybrid and towing it behind our MH is applicable here and should help some folks.

 

  First off, we found out very early (on our first tow) that Ford's hybrid drivetrain (whether its in a Fusion or Cmax) has a parasitic drain on the battery when towing and key in ACC mode.  After our first trip (around 4 hours), our battery was dead, like so many others experienced.  

 

As soon as we got home from that trip, I put an ammeter across the battery terminal, put key in ACC and tranny in neutral to simulate towing.  Sure enough, ammeter reads a 3 amp draw on the battery.

 

  I figured, there is probably a way to turn it off by pulling the right fuse, but I really, really did not want to fool with pulling fuses, and chose not to go there.  Not how complicated the electrical system is on these hybrids!

 

  It is also not a good idea to continue to just let your battery die, and re-charge it.  You will regret it later if you do.  As already said, these are NOT deep cycle batteries, and using them that way will shorten their life span significantly.  You'll find yourself replacing the battery quite often.  Yes, you may get Ford to cover the first few under warranty, but getting stranded somewhere is no fun and can be very stressful, regardless who ultimately pays the bill for it.

 

  I'm not surprised at all, that many have tried but got nowhere in getting an answer from Ford.  I never even tried that, 'cause I knew the answer I would get, haha.

 

  I too, thought about the approach some have mentioned here, of over-riding the shift lockout and forcing the car into neutral, and leaving ignition switch off.  I chose not to, though, as we just don't know if there are some good reasons why Ford's manual instructs you to leave ignition in ACC position.  Some of the notes earlier about an electric lube pump for the tranny makes me think that even more so. 

 

  My solution, and what I highly, highly recommend:  Install a charge line going from your Motorhome to your Cmax's battery and be done with it.  Its very easy to do, and works great.  Now, I can tow pretty much as long as I want, all day, and battery in the Fusion stays fully charged and ready to go when we get to our destination.  As already mentioned, Ford provides battery contacts under the hood, which makes the perfect place to wire the charge line.  

 

  Just make sure (this is VERY important), that you install a fuse on the charge line on both ends - near the battery terminal under the hood on your Cmax, and on the Motorhome side.  I use a 10 amp fuse, but anything from 10-20 amps should be good, depending on the gauge of the wire you are using.  Some have talked about installing a diode on the wire also, to prevent current from feeding from your Cmax back to the Motorhome.  I haven't done that, but it wouldnt be a bad idea, either.

 

  As to braking systems:  Ford's hybrid drivetrain (again, same in Cmax or Fusion) has 'active braking' that is on/active ALL the time, regardless of ignition position.  Meaning, there is electric power braking on all the time.  You have to keep this in mind when selecting a brake system, and setting it up.  Some systems just are not designed for this, and will over-brake and damage your Cmax (some brakebuddy models are an example).  I highly, highly recommend the Readybrake system (http://www.readybrake.com).  Works just fine with active braking, and is the most simple, economic, and trouble-free system you can get.

 

  Anyway, sorry this got long winded.  Just wanted to share what I had learned on this subject.  Let me know if any of you need/want any more specifics of how to do the charge line, or anything else I could help with.

 

Will

[jmckinley]

Good points, except for this:

 

As to braking systems:  Ford's hybrid drivetrain (again, same in Cmax or Fusion) has 'active braking' that is on/active ALL the time, regardless of ignition position.

 

I disagree with that.  I have coasted down my driveway with the ignition off and applied the brakes and I can guarantee that on my car there is no brake assist with the ignition off.  Contrary to what a lot of people think, the friction brakes on this vehicle are exactly like a those on a 55 Chevy with power brakes (except for disc brakes instead of drums).  There is a master cylinder and a vacuum booster to provide assist in applying force to the master cylinder.  The only addition is a vacuum pump to generate vacuum when we're EVing.  When the engine is off and the Vacuum pump is off, it takes a lot of force to apply the brakes, just like on most other cars. Of course when we're actually driving the thing, a lot of braking is provided by regeneration which uses the electric motor as a generator to charge the big battery. There is definitely not "Electric Power Braking all the time".

 

Others were told that some auxiliary brake systems would not work on the CMax and later found that the suppliers had changed their minds. Certainly the ReadyBrake system works just fine on the CMax and I suspect most of the other systems will too.  There is no magic or high technology, here.  Just a brake pedal, a master cylinder, a vacuum booster and four hydraulic disc brakes. 

[willald]

Good points, except for this:

 

As to braking systems:  Ford's hybrid drivetrain (again, same in Cmax or Fusion) has 'active braking' that is on/active ALL the time, regardless of ignition position.

 

I disagree with that.  I have coasted down my driveway with the ignition off and applied the brakes and I can guarantee that on my car there is no brake assist with the ignition off.  Contrary to what a lot of people think, the friction brakes on this vehicle are exactly like a those on a 55 Chevy with power brakes (except for disc brakes instead of drums).  There is a master cylinder and a vacuum booster to provide assist in applying force to the master cylinder.  The only addition is a vacuum pump to generate vacuum when we're EVing.  When the engine is off and the Vacuum pump is off, it takes a lot of force to apply the brakes, just like on most other cars. Of course when we're actually driving the thing, a lot of braking is provided by regeneration which uses the electric motor as a generator to charge the big battery. There is definitely not "Electric Power Braking all the time".

 

Others were told that some auxiliary brake systems would not work on the CMax and later found that the suppliers had changed their minds. Certainly the ReadyBrake system works just fine on the CMax and I suspect most of the other systems will too.  There is no magic or high technology, here.  Just a brake pedal, a master cylinder, a vacuum booster and four hydraulic disc brakes. 

 

..Then the Fusion hybrids must have a different brake design than the Cmax.  I know for a fact that the power brake assist is on and engages, runs (regardless of ignition position) on our Fusion hybrid.  I can (and have, in testing) hit the brake pedal a few times when ignition is off, and on the 2nd or 3rd time, an electric vacuum pump comes on, and 'pumps' the brake vacuum back up.  Brake pedal stays easy to press when ignition is off, does not lose its vacuum assist like conventional brakes do.

 

  I would have thought Ford used same brake design on both the Fusion Hybrid and Cmax, apparently not.

 

Will

[jmckinley]

It's interesting that the Fusion vacuum pump still works with the ignition off.  I've tried my CMax several times, just to be sure, because I thought the pump might still work and that might have been what was running the 12v battery down while towing.  On my car at least, the pump doesn't work even in the accessory position.

 

I'm using a ReadyBrake too.  I like the simplicity of the whole concept.  It was a little tricky, however, getting the cable through the firewall while avoiding those big orange high voltage lines. I just revised the front part of the installation two nights ago because I found that my cable routing had moved and was bearing against the bottom of the radiator shutters in the lower grille, preventing them from fully closing. I had previously routed the cable to exit through the lower grille but now will be moving it so it comes out through the bodywork below the grille.

[willald]

It's interesting that the Fusion vacuum pump still works with the ignition off.  I've tried my CMax several times, just to be sure, because I thought the pump might still work and that might have been what was running the 12v battery down while towing.  On my car at least, the pump doesn't work even in the accessory position.

 

I'm using a ReadyBrake too.  I like the simplicity of the whole concept.  It was a little tricky, however, getting the cable through the firewall while avoiding those big orange high voltage lines. I just revised the front part of the installation two nights ago because I found that my cable routing had moved and was bearing against the bottom of the radiator shutters in the lower grille, preventing them from fully closing. I had previously routed the cable to exit through the lower grille but now will be moving it so it comes out through the bodywork below the grille.

 

Ah, another Readybrake owner.  Cool.  :)

 

Yes, installing the cable on these hybrids is a challenge, to say the least.  Lots of stuff in the way.  I was too chicken/paranoid to try that installation myself, so had a RV dealer do it.  Had one dealer, the place I normally work with, tell me flat out it couldn't be done.  Said there was too much 'stuff' in the way under the hood (interpreted:  they didn't want to do it, 'cause it was too much work).  Went to another dealer, they did the (cable) installation and did a great job with it.  Very happy with their installation.  Was not cheap, but was cheaper than what it would've cost to buy an 'electronic box' type braking system (that I want no part of).

 

I too, am a bit perplexed as to why the brake vacuum pump is active all the time on the Fusion hybrids (regardless of ignition switch position), and is not on the Cmax.  Wonder whats up with that?

 

Will

Edited July 5, 2013 by willald

[jmckinley]

OK, I admit it, I just found out that I was wrong.  The CMax vacuum pump does stay live all the time.

 

Yesterday after rerouting my ReadyBrake cable i hooked the car up to my van to readjust the cable.  I tripped the Brake Shift Interlock to put the car in neutral without turning on the ignition, then depleted the vacuum and adjusted the cable.  After a couple of stops, I realized that the CMax brakes were dragging.  Further investigation revealed that the vacuum pump had come on and replenished the vacuum supply, even though the ignition was totally off.

 

I pulled the F9 fuse in the underhood fuse box and that deactivated the pump and let me adjust the cable to work with a non vacuum boosted system.  Later, though, when I restarted the car I got a error light  which did reset after a couple of startup, stop cycles.

 

That worried me and I'm now thinking a charge line is the only way to go.  Problem is, however, that this means the pump is indeed always active so in your garage, as the vacuum slowly leaks down, the system will fire up the pump as necessary.  No wonder the owners manual says put it on a charger if you don't plan to drive it for two weeks. 

[wab]

When you are ready to install a charge wire take a look at

item # B004RCXB8A on Amazon.

 

It was an easy DIY for us, less than $25.

Our MH had 12V and ground on the factory hitch.

I ran both to the 12V jump connections under the hood.

 

We have 2500+ towed miles on the cmax with ZERO problems.

I stopped at the first 200 mile mark and tried to start the ICE.

It wouldn't start till I ran the AC for several minutes.

[jmckinley]

It wouldn't start till I ran the AC for several minutes. 

 

Now that is really interesting. I hadn't considered that scenario.  My guess is the car thought the big battery was too hot and had to cool it down before it would let you start it.

[willald]

...Yesterday after rerouting my ReadyBrake cable i hooked the car up to my van to readjust the cable.  I tripped the Brake Shift Interlock to put the car in neutral without turning on the ignition, then depleted the vacuum and adjusted the cable.  After a couple of stops, I realized that the CMax brakes were dragging.  Further investigation revealed that the vacuum pump had come on and replenished the vacuum supply, even though the ignition was totally off.

 

Well, John, you probably already know this, but:  Once you adjust the Readybrake cable properly, the brakes on your Cmax will not drag.  Readybrake works fine with or without power braking.  If the cable is adjusted properly, brakes should never drag, not even when going down a steep hill.

 

I'm actually a little confused as to why yours dragged at all?  That is, unless you just had the cable too tight to begin with, in which case it would have dragged regardless whether or not the vacuum pump was keeping the brakes pumped up.

 

I tow two different vehicles, both with Readybrake - the Fusion hybrid, and my wife's Kia minivan.  Readybrake works fine with either of them, even though one has power braking on all the time (Fusion), and the other does not and RB is basically pulling a 'dead pedal'.  I have noticed, that I actually get a little better braking with the Fusion than I do with the Kia.  Obviously, having power braking on all the time allows the Readybrake actuator/cable to pull on the brakes a little harder, and get things stopped a little quicker.  'Tis one reason I am very glad that Ford designed their hybrid so that power braking stays on all the time.

 

And, yes, you did come to the right conclusion, same one I came to some time ago - With these Ford hybrids, a charge line is the ONLY way to go.  Without it, you're going to be replacing a lot of batteries and need a lot of jump starts

 

Thanks for posting back, and correcting what you had said earlier, confirming that your Cmax's power braking is indeed on all the time.  I could not understand why Ford would have done that different with the Cmax, good to hear that it is the same.

 

Will

[jmckinley]

Just towed my Cmax for the first time after the 13B07 update and something new has shown up.  

 

Previously, you could not idle for more than a minute or two in neutral before the engine would shut off.  Now, since the reprogramming, it will idle forever.  

 

This is good news, since the Owner's Manual says to idle for five minutes before towing each day and after 200 miles.

 

Of course, it also says to move the lever back and forth between Reverse, Drive and Neutral because this is cut and pasted from the six speed automatic transmissions used in non hybrid Fords. Our car, like the Prius which uses the same CVT transmission, does not have a reverse gear.  It reverses by running the electric motor backwards.  So cycling the shifter through reverse is a waste of time since no reverse gears are exercised.

[wab]

HhMm... we haven't towed with  the 13B07 yet

but DW has used the AC for a total of 3 hours idling at the public pool and the park (while I play with the grandkids).

 

The motor cycled on and off just like before.

 

I wonder if it has anything to do with your charge/ground frm the MH?

 

Research continues

wab

[jmckinley]

You were probably in Park.  I was trying to spin the transmission in Neutral to stir up the stuff in there. Previously, in neutral, it would shut off fairly quickly.

 

In Park, mine still shuts off the engine after a minute or so.

[wab]

You were probably in Park.  I was trying to spin the transmission in Neutral to stir up the stuff in there. Previously, in neutral, it would shut off fairly quickly.

 

In Park, mine still shuts off the engine after a minute or so.

 

Maybe someone at Ford realizes they could take a lot of CR-V sales with a little software  ;) .

[holidaynh]

Does anybody have a c max se and tow dehind a motorhome? Do you have to turn the key to aux.? When the key is in aux the dash panel tells you to put the car in park, this read out might kill the battery.

[willald]

Does anybody have a c max se and tow dehind a motorhome? Do you have to turn the key to aux.? When the key is in aux the dash panel tells you to put the car in park, this read out might kill the battery.

 

Yes, Ford manual tells you to keep the key in AUX/ACC position when towing.  You can't take key out when its in neutral to tow, so AUX/ACC position is what you have to leave it in.

 

As to the read-out killing the battery:  Yes, it probably will.  Regardless of the read-out, though, these hybrids have other parasitic drains on the battery when key is in AUX position that make this a problem you have to address.  Read my (long) post at the top of this page, and jmckinley's posts after that.  You'll see where we both have found that due to these drains on the battery, running a charge line from your motorhome to your Cmax is an absolute MUST when flat towing these Ford hybrids.

 

If you don't run a charge wire, you will frequently get to your destination with a dead battery, and require a jump start.  Not only that, but 'killing' your 12 volt battery and re-charging it regularly like that will shorten its lifespan significantly.  Its not a deep cycle battery, and was not designed to be used that way.  You'll be replacing it much more often than normal if you continue that approach.

 

If running a charge line is not an option, only other thing I'd suggest is to plan on stopping every hour or so to start up and run the Cmax's engine for a few minutes.  This will keep the 12V battery from getting depleted too much.  That is a real PITA, though, I would only do that as a temporary solution until you can get a charge line installed.

 

Will