April '14 C-Max sales ...ouch

[ptjones]

I heard the same 10 year rule too and they are making a lot more in Europe. :)

 

Paul

[fordfan82]

I have a 2014 Fusion, not the eco boost model and the best I have gotten has been 31 mpg but in most cases I average around 26-28 combined. Our escape we love but the best we can get is 24 mpg combined. I did check a C-Max out at the dealership and peeked in the window and noticed it does have a lot of headroom. We pay 200 now in gas for our Escape if gas is near 4.00. My wife commutes 5 days a week to work on the highway and some city driving.

 

I'm curious as to how many less fill ups we would do. On a 2 year lease I was quoted 370 a month for 12,000 miles a year. My wife used to never consider a C-max but she is now if we're able to save a good amount of gas a month.

[ptjones]

I have a 2014 Fusion, not the eco boost model and the best I have gotten has been 31 mpg but in most cases I average around 26-28 combined. Our escape we love but the best we can get is 24 mpg combined. I did check a C-Max out at the dealership and peeked in the window and noticed it does have a lot of headroom. We pay 200 now in gas for our Escape if gas is near 4.00. My wife commutes 5 days a week to work on the highway and some city driving.

 

I'm curious as to how many less fill ups we would do. On a 2 year lease I was quoted 370 a month for 12,000 miles a year. My wife used to never consider a C-max but she is now if we're able to save a good amount of gas a month.

I would think she could get 40-45mpg without working very hard on the gas mileage. Just keep it under 70mpg and it shouldn't be a problem. IMO :)

 

Paul

[fbov]

It's really not that hard to keep it under 70mpg....

 

I think your wife would have to be an amazing woman to beat 40mpg; my car's lifetime mileage at receipt (8K miles) was 38mpg, and after ~7.5K on on the PCM update, I'm at 37.8, with only 5% EV (yes, 360-some EV miles on 7,500 total miles - winter sucks!). While I've been hitting 50+ for a few weeks, and the current tank's at 49.2, that's on back roads with 35mph speed limits. Expect a lot closer to 38 in your wife's commute.

 

HAve fun,

Frank

[fordfan82]

Where as my commute is 90 % city with speeds of 40 mph-55mph. So she would get + 14 mph more with the C-max than her escape. A salesman was explaining to me it would only be in gas mode for a short period on the expressway and once it was up to speed it would go back in Ev mode. There's also a bigger rebate of 1,000 to buy vs lease of only 250.00 at the moment. Maybe they'll have a better lease deal as they start clearing out the current model.

[ptjones]

It's really not that hard to keep it under 70mpg....

 

I think your wife would have to be an amazing woman to beat 40mpg; my car's lifetime mileage at receipt (8K miles) was 38mpg, and after ~7.5K on on the PCM update, I'm at 37.8, with only 5% EV (yes, 360-some EV miles on 7,500 total miles - winter sucks!). While I've been hitting 50+ for a few weeks, and the current tank's at 49.2, that's on back roads with 35mph speed limits. Expect a lot closer to 38 in your wife's commute.

 

HAve fun,

Frank

We are going into Summer so your should pickup around 6MPG over Winter. I filled up yesterday and got 53.6mpg with 50% Hwy. You just got to love Grill Covers. LOL :)

 

Paul

[seansrq11]

My experience with the C-Max has overall been very enjoyable. I have not done the Fuelly thing because I have noticed a discrepancy between filling up from station to station. When I have had the chance to fill up at the same station, my mileage has by doing the match has come very close to the display's mileage. From station to station, the difference is between negative 1-3 mpgs. That being said, at the worst, I am still in the 40's and that is due to driving habits. The article about the difference between 60 and 70 mph due to drag is dramatic. I hit the hwy and set the eco-cruise at 60, sit back (in the right lane of course) and enjoy the ride comfort and the amenities of the C-Max. This is perfectly legal and safe with the minimum hwy speed set at 40 mph and pretty relaxing at that. Wind direction is another factor. If there is a strong headwind then forget about it, mpg will be in the 30's. Strong tailwind, 70-80 mph still strong mileage numbers.

 

Around town I pulse and glide lite, pulse to 10 mph above speed limit, glide back down to speed limit until battery has a nice charge and then ride out the battery on eco-cruise. Repeat as necessary. This does not piss off the other drivers too much since you are at least maintaining the speed limit.

 

Finally, know thy red lights. Be able to anticipate when lights are going to change to red. If I accelerate thinking I might make it through the light then have to slam on the brakes then game over for the mpg if this happens often enough.

 

Bottom line, leave on time and take it easy and you will reap the benefits of the C-Max. 

[salsaguy]

Fbov, each person's results will vary greatly depending on if they live in a warm or cold climate, if the drive like a racer or a normal person and if they apply some of the tips posted in this form or not. 

 

It's really not that hard to keep it under 70mpg....

 

I think your wife would have to be an amazing woman to beat 40mpg; my car's lifetime mileage at receipt (8K miles) was 38mpg, and after ~7.5K on on the PCM update, I'm at 37.8, with only 5% EV (yes, 360-some EV miles on 7,500 total miles - winter sucks!). While I've been hitting 50+ for a few weeks, and the current tank's at 49.2, that's on back roads with 35mph speed limits. Expect a lot closer to 38 in your wife's commute.

 

HAve fun,

Frank

[oldloboy]

Of course it's due to the bad mileage.  I just rented a new Fusion with Eco Boost last week.  I got consistently better mileage than I've ever gotten on my C Max.  

 

--------Do you ever drive the C Max in-town?  I've found that a hybrid's mileage goes way up when I'm coasting from stoplight to stoplight or cruising around a mall, looking for a parking space.  The deal is, a straight gas motor does miserably at low power.  Any gas engine has to be strangled with its air/fuel mixture to put out only 10-20 horsepower.  You get extremely low efficiency with gas at low power.  This type of  situation is when the EV mode saves the mileage.  If you work the engine hard, accelerating and charging, and then back off to put it in the EV mode, your average mileage will be in the forties instead of the thirties.

[oldloboy]

Fbov, each person's results will vary greatly depending on if they live in a warm or cold climate, if the drive like a racer or a normal person and if they apply some of the tips posted in this form or not. 

------- Yes, winter sucks.  A really big thing is the tires.  They roll well only when they get hot.  I've found that any highway that is cold or wet takes high power levels even at moderate speeds, and the same roads take low power when the outside temp is 60 or 70  and the tires have warmed up.  This happened even if I carefully adjust the tire pressure to hit 38 psi when it is below freezing.

   I would hate to own a C Max in Canada.  2 or 3 months of decent mileage and then the bottom drops out!

Edited May 13, 2014 by oldloboy

[plus 3 golfer]

....

Edited May 14, 2014 by Plus 3 Golfer

[fbov]

I expected tires to make a difference, certainly between OEM "Energy Saver" tires and Michelin X-Ice3 snow tires. Not so. I see no evidence of increased rolling resistance between X-Ice 3 (purple)and Energy Saver A/S (green), both set to 51psi at 35-40F ambient temperature.

 

One can also see that without a fuel economy advantage, I chose to drive expressways all winter. Getting 30mpg at 8F, I still was cycling the heat, and this with top and center grills blocked. Far easier to take the highway, which kept the engine and occupant temperatures in the operating range.

 

And I'll note that I took the snows off mid-April, and since then, tank average is close to 50, and round trips have hit 60mpg. I think I'm exceeding my baseline, without slowing down - improved technique???

 

HAve fun,

Frank

 

PS I named this wrong; no Summer 14 data here! Just snows vs. last Fall data.

Edited May 13, 2014 by fbov

[zalusky]

I have mentioned this before but warm up time makes a big difference.  My wife and I both bought the exact same CMAX.  She drove 2 miles to work and I drove 15 miles to work.  50/50 freeway/city.

My avg mileage is 44.6 and her's is 37.5 

 

This is in SF Bay area weather including the 40 degree winter weather.  Enough said!

[BIG ROCCO]

I'm not yet a C-Max owner, but am seriously thinking about one. The Fusion is also on the list of 3 or 4 cars I'm considering so I've been reading the Fusion forms as well as this one.

 

One doesn't have to read too far into the comments from Fusion owners to find out their MPG complaints are just as extensive, if not more so, than those of the C-Maxers. On the flip side, it is actually a bit easier to find a C-Max owner boasting of significantly bettering their EPA figures than it is to find a Fusion owner doing the same.

 

That leaves a couple of possible explanations for the wildly varying results. One is that there is a significant quality control inconsistency between cars. Or, it could be a wide difference in the conscious (or unconscious) driving habits of the owners. Or, it could be external factors such as temperature and route differences such as length of trips, city vs highway, flat vs hills, number of stoplights, etc.

 

While people love answers where one single thing has caused all the problems for everyone, I suspect all three play a role with the driver's habits being the biggest issue. When I test drove a C-Max, I had no problem getting 42 MPG, but I test drive cars no differently than I drive the car I own. My wife, who pushes cars much harder in a test drive than she normally drives, got 29 mpg in the same car over roughly the same route with no substantial weather differences.

 

It seems pretty obvious to me that if one wants the full sports sedan/hatchback experience, the C-Max is the wrong car to buy. Same thing with the peson who spends 80% of their time on the interstate highways at 70+ mph -- the C-Max is the wrong car. Neither is true for me. About 80% of my miles are city/suburban. And while I like a car with a good suspension, road feel and a bit of zip, I'm well past my sports car phase.

 

Frankly, I think the EPA mileage issue is overblown. I happen to like the way the C-Max drives, its size and versitility. There are a few things I like better about the Fusion, but there is no way I can combine the attributes of each into one car. I'll have to choose one or the other. If that choice is for the C-Max, its mileage is going to be a bonus regardless of the exact number. It's going to be a whole lot better than the annual average of 23 mpg I get from my Volvo right now.

 

I was intrigued by your "80%" ...Our C-Max probably spends 80+% of it's driving time around town - 2-4 mile trips, but 80+% of the miles are highway.  Our lifetime mileage readout on the dash after 1 year/10K miles 45.2 MPG.  We replaced a Lincoln LS V-6, which got about 22 MPG.  Every time we fill up, we figure we save what we spent.  For example, when I filled the tank yesterday for $22, we marveled at the thought that we also saved $22 vs. the car we replaced...and we like the C-Max better (although the Lincoln was a nice car)

[mlsstl]

Rocco, what's your customary highway cruise speed away from cities? You didn't mention your typical speed. (And, interstates in urban areas don't qualify as "highway driving" in my book.)

 

In reading through the C-Max and Fusion Hybrid forums, it seems that the people who get highway mileage in the mid-40s hold their speed to under 70 mph while those who zip along faster lose several mpgs.

[salsaguy]

Yes this has been proven many times over that it takes a car usually 10-15 mins or about 5 miles to fully warm up and get efficient. Short trips age the worst.but if you are on EV mode running on electric power you should do good.

 

So for folks only driving around town most of the time, they should own a plugin hybrid or an all electric.

For those who do both town and highway then a hybrid is the best option.

For those that do power miles/long distance most of the time, a diesel is the best option to get the best mileage.

 

I have mentioned this before but warm up time makes a big difference.  My wife and I both bought the exact same CMAX.  She drove 2 miles to work and I drove 15 miles to work.  50/50 freeway/city.

My avg mileage is 44.6 and her's is 37.5 

 

This is in SF Bay area weather including the 40 degree winter weather.  Enough said!

[salsaguy]

On my Passat I can track the avg miles per hour for the tank in my trip computer. I log this in my Fuelly.com starts when I fill up for gas and take my mileage. My trip to work's on the freeway but since a lot of time is spent in traffic on the streets to get to the freeway, I only average 21 mi/hrs for the entire tank.

There is  table/calculation that is put out by the EPA to determine your % city vs % highway driving, based on your avg speed for the tank ( in miles per hour ).

I will post it here:

 

So if you avg 48 mi/hrs or more over the tank you are considered 100% highway driving. 21 mi/hrs and under you are considered doing 100% city driving.

 

Here is the breakdown by each 10% :

 

You need at least the avg mph value shown to move into the next higher level for % highway...

 

AVG mph. / % hwy /  % city

48 / 100 / 0

45.3 / 90 / 10

42.6 / 80 / 20

39.9 / 70 /30

37.2 / 60 / 40

34.5 / 50 / 50

31.8 / 40 / 60

29.1 / 30 / 70

26.4 / 20 / 80

23.7 / 10 / 90 

21 / 0 / 100

 

This is the table you are supposed to use when you enter your fill up info at fuelly when it asks you % city % highway, if you have your account setup to ask for that. Most just guess without having a way top actually measure it. I'm sure many would be surprised if they actually knew how much they spent driving city mph speed.

 

EDIT: here is the formula where this table is based on:

 

http://www.fuelly.com/tip/555/Find-your-true-cityhighway-driving-splits

 

 

Rocco, what's your customary highway cruise speed away from cities? You didn't mention your typical speed. (And, interstates in urban areas don't qualify as "highway driving" in my book.)

 

In reading through the C-Max and Fusion Hybrid forums, it seems that the people who get highway mileage in the mid-40s hold their speed to under 70 mph while those who zip along faster lose several mpgs.

Edited May 14, 2014 by salsaguy

[hybridbear]

On my Passat I can track the avg miles per hour for the tank in my trip computer. I log this in my Fuelly.com starts when I fill up for gas and take my mileage. My trip to work's on the freeway but since a lot of time is spent in traffic on the streets to get to the freeway, I only average 21 mi/hrs for the entire tank.

There is  table/calculation that is put out by the EPA to determine your % city vs % highway driving, based on your avg speed for the tank ( in miles per hour ).

I will post it here:

 

So if you avg 48 mi/hrs or more over the tank you are considered 100% highway driving. 21 mi/hrs and under you are considered doing 100% city driving.

 

Here is the breakdown by each 10% :

 

You need at least the avg mph value shown to move into the next higher level for % highway...

 

AVG mph. / % hwy /  % city

48 / 100 / 0

45.3 / 90 / 10

42.6 / 80 / 20

39.9 / 70 /30

37.2 / 60 / 40

34.5 / 50 / 50

31.8 / 40 / 60

29.1 / 30 / 70

26.4 / 20 / 80

23.7 / 10 / 90 

21 / 0 / 100

 

This is the table you are supposed to use when you enter your fill up info at fuelly when it asks you % city % highway, if you have your account setup to ask for that. Most just guess without having a way top actually measure it. I'm sure many would be surprised if they actually knew how much they spent driving city mph speed.

 

EDIT: here is the formula where this table is based on:

 

http://www.fuelly.com/tip/555/Find-your-true-cityhighway-driving-splits

Very cool information. The Prius shows the AVG MPH and I record that in my Fuelly notes. I usually estimate city/highway by considering that our driving is 100% city unless I can recall specific long distance (30+ mile) trips that involved sustained freeway speeds. Then I put those miles as "highway". I'm going to update the Prius tanks based on your chart.

 

Edit: before adjusting Prius tanks we were at 83% city, 17% highway. After adjusting the city/highway splits based on the chart above we now show 82% city, 18% highway. There were a number of tanks where we never left the city but our average MPH was high enough to move us out of the 100% city bracket. Those tanks must have had less traffic to slow down my wife's commute.

Edited May 19, 2014 by hybridbear

[bemyax]

Um, yeah, I guess we're way off topic here but:

 

I saw that formula on Fuelly, as well. And I had no idea how to use it. So I scratched my head and came up with this:

 

AVG*(100/27)+(100-(100/27)*48) which is the percent highway miles.

 

Now I will go back through my records for average miles per hour for each gas receipt, then enter that into Fuelly starting with the most recent until I tire of the exercise.

 

have fun, he said

David

[salsaguy]

Glad it was helpful to you, and hopefully others.

 

Very cool information. The Prius shows the AVG MPH and I record that in my Fuelly notes. I usually estimate city/highway by considering that our driving is 100% city unless I can recall specific long distance (30+ mile) trips that involved sustained freeway speeds. Then I put those miles as "highway". I'm going to update the Prius tanks based on your chart.

 

Edit: before adjusting Prius tanks we were at 83% city, 17% highway. After adjusting the city/highway splits based on the chart above we now show 82% city, 18% highway. There were a number of tanks where we never left the city but our average MPH was high enough to move us out of the 100% city bracket. Those tanks must have had less traffic to slow down my wife's commute.

[salsaguy]

The formula that I have goes like this:

 

% Hwy = 100 x (Avg Trip speed in mph  - minus the CITY factor value) / divided by   (HWY factor -   CITY factor)

Where CITY factor = 21 and HWY factor = 48

 

So simplified its :

% hwy = 100 x ( "avg trip speed from your dash"  - 21) / (27)

So if my avg speed for the entire tank when I filled up shows 25 mph then my %hwy would be:

100 x (25 - 21 ) / 27

Or 100 x 4 / 27

= 100 x 0.148

=14.8 % highway 

So % city = 100 - 14.8 or 85.19 % city

I was confused at first as well.

You ate basically comparing your avg mpg versus the factor mph they use as a baseline.

Makes sense to me

 

Um, yeah, I guess we're way off topic here but:

 

I saw that formula on Fuelly, as well. And I had no idea how to use it. So I scratched my head and came up with this:

 

AVG*(100/27)+(100-(100/27)*48) which is the percent highway miles.

 

Now I will go back through my records for average miles per hour for each gas receipt, then enter that into Fuelly starting with the most recent until I tire of the exercise.

 

have fun, he said

David

[salsaguy]

Here is an article on the sales being down:

http://gas2.org/2014/04/29/ford-c-max-mpg-revision-hurt-sales-substantially/

[Jus-A-CMax]

Interesting that they say the Fusion is a larger car, since my wife and I last looked at it, there is no way in hell we could fit all our snowgear into a sedan. Last sedan was a 2007 Jaguar Vanden Plas and it doesn't get any bigger than that (and I had the extended Jag, not the normal one, built for the Queen or my Queen ;) ), and we had to use a Jaguar box on the roof. You can't tell me the Fusion is as big as the Jag but I am sure someone here will. C'mon.

 

I should fire my virtual secretary or the mail man, I keep missing these memo :baby:

Edited May 28, 2014 by Jus-A-CMax

[salsaguy]

Yes I agree. I think they are taking about wheelbase length not the cubic inches in volume.

Since the Fusion didn't have the mpg fiasco because the 47/47 was based on that car maybe the masses have decided to stay worth Ford but flock to the Fusion instead of the CMax. It's obvious they just want the highest mpg they can get.

Keep agree that the 2 cars are not on the same car class (sedan vs mpg) so I don't see glee many can just switch from one to the other when the Fusion wasn't even on their short list when shopping for a car that has the room and height of the CMax. Unless they were open and just wanted a hybrid with high mpg and all other factors didn't matter. Not usually the case. Most likely flawed/incomplete data flee this report/article.

 

Interesting that they say the Fusion is a larger car, since my wife and I last looked at it, there is no way in hell we could fit all our snowgear into a sedan. Last sedan was a 2007 Jaguar Vanden Plas and it doesn't get any bigger than that (and I had the extended Jag, not the normal one, built for the Queen or my Queen ;) ), and we had to use a Jaguar box on the roof. You can't tell me the Fusion is as big as the Jag but I am sure someone here will. C'mon.

 

I should fire my virtual secretary or the mail man, I keep missing these memo :baby:

[rfaunce]

I agree with some of the comments about Ford not marketing the C-Max now.  I suspect they are planning a re-launch with updated sheet metal.  Interestingly, the Escape outsells the C-Max by 10:1 YET they have almost the same dimensions, the interiors are identical and except for the nose they look very similar.  The Escape has a bit more interior and storage room and probably heavier duty underpinings.  In fact, I think the C-Max is really a hybrid version of a FWD Escape.  

 

I think Ford may have backed away from the car after the controversy over mpg ratings but I think this was more a case of people driving a hybrid like a regular car and not like a hybrid is supposed to be driven.  I always drive 5 mph over the speed limit but I take my time getting there.  The longer the car stays on battery the better the mileage and I have been averaging 46-48 mpg since the end of winter and sometimes into the low 50's.  Who could complain about that!