April '14 C-Max sales ...ouch

[bro1999]

Only 2,111 sold last month, a 41.5% reduction compared to last year's 3,608. :o Overall, 2014 sales are down over 42% compared to the same point in time last year. Anyone know the reason for the huge drop? People choosing the FFH/FFE instead of the C-Max due to the MSRP drop? Especially the FFE.

 

http://corporate.ford.com/our-company/investors/upcoming-investor-events/webcastevent-detail/fmcwebcast-20140501?packedargs=releaseId%3D1377632363488

Edited May 2, 2014 by bro1999

[kostby]

2013 C-MAX vehicles manufactured from July 23rd, 2012 through May 28th, 2013 and still on dealer lots are subject to the Stop Sale/No Demo order for potential defective welds in the seat recliner mechanism.

 

This notice indicates recall expected to begin about May 19th.

 http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchResults?searchType=ID&targetCategory=R&searchCriteria.nhtsa_ids=14V164000

 

That's hundreds, perhaps thousands of unsold cars just sitting there that can't be sold or even demoed until the seat recall is completed on them.

[dweiser]

Gee, do you think the sales slump could have a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g to do with the estimated m.p.g. being overstated by Ford?  Or maybe all the recalls on the vehicle are making people stay away because they don't see it as a quality product?  Could all the trips to the dealer for "software updates" plus the hours and hours their friends have told them they've spent at the dealer to "fix" the "wrong of the month" with this vehicle?

Hmmmmmm.

[plus 3 golfer]

dweiser, I have a "fire suit" I can lend you. 

 

[jmckinley]

Of course it's due to the bad mileage.  I just rented a new Fusion with Eco Boost last week.  I got consistently better mileage than I've ever gotten on my C Max.  Why would anyone buy a C Max with all the extra weight, complications of the Hybrid system and other aggravations when you can get better mileage for less money on a number of conventional cars.?

 

Now our cars are losing more and more resale value as the word gets out. 

[ScubaDadMiami]

There is no question about sales drop at least partially due to the negative reports. I'll not address that issue here, as there is another focus (not Focus ;) ) I wish to discuss.

 

From the beginning, it seems that Ford treated the C-MAX as a sideline product, and, IMHO, they have marketed this car in the poorest manner. I think that these issues have had a significant impact on sales that were not big to start, and then dropped.

 

At that time that I found out about the C-MAX, I was driving a 20 MPG Nissan Murano that was going on ten years old. I like four door cars for when I have passengers. I need to carry a lot of things around. I don't want two cars, so I am not going to get a truck for hauling and a little two seater for the city. I need a car that can do both. Oh, did I mention getting great fuel economy? I was looking for something that could get at least 40 MPG.

 

Until the Prius V came out, I was hoping to find something like the Prius but bigger. When the Prius V came out, I was planning on buying one at the time of my next car purchase, without even testing one out. After all, there really was nothing else in the category.

 

Then, I saw this dorky C-MAX cartoon commercial on TV. Honestly, it made the C-MAX look like a cheap econo-bucket. Yeah, it held five and was advertised to get better fuel economy than the Prius, but that was about all that the commercial showed. It was so vague about the really rich features available, and really didn't do any kind of justice about the handling and power. The only reason that I bothered to check out the C-MAX was because there really were only a few potential candidates that fell within the requirements I needed.

 

Once I made a test drive, I didn't even bother going to the Toyota dealer. Other than some quick checks online and such, I made up my mind. Sure, I ended out with the C-MAX, but it is almost like a lucky shot that I decided to check one out.

 

Now, if Ford had marketed to someone who wants to be "smart" with his/her money (look at all that you can get for the money), someone who cares about the environment while still enjoying luxury (instead of the vanilla Prius line), someone who needs to be somewhat practical (the need to have sufficient cargo space, room for five), someone who enjoys tech, and someone who is looking for more than an econobox, Ford may have attracted more people to take a look at the C-MAX. Instead of a cartoon, they could have shown things like the real interior of a C-MAX all tricked out with the Pano Roof, Park Assist and kick gate on the SEL, and that would have opened the door.

 

Unfortunately, with a first year launch vehicle, things happen. As issues arose, Ford almost completely discontinued advertising, and the C-MAX has never really been featured since. Ford needs to correct the few problems that are out there, and then should completely revamp its marketing campaign. Perhaps Ford backed off of the marketing while they are still working out these issues, and they already plan a big push for when things are fully resolved. The powers that be aren't stupid, and I would imagine that they are well aware of issues and likely ways to go in the future. However, if they have missed it before now, :superhero: .

Edited May 4, 2014 by ScubaDadMiami

[ptjones]

Of course it's due to the bad mileage.  I just rented a new Fusion with Eco Boost last week.  I got consistently better mileage than I've ever gotten on my C Max.  Why would anyone buy a C Max with all the extra weight, complications of the Hybrid system and other aggravations when you can get better mileage for less money on a number of conventional cars.?

 

Now our cars are losing more and more resale value as the word gets out. 

I checked FORD Fusion web site and the best eco-boost HWY mileage is 37mpg and your Fuelly average 36.9mpg. I also noticed your best tank on Fuelly was 42.8, good gas mileage.  I'm sure the Fusion wasn't getting that good. BTW I don't know if you calculated the difference of actual miles(GPS) vs odometer reading, which is off by about 1.5% or .5mpg to the better which would compute out to 37.4mpg. Not great but still better than ECO Boost Fusion.  Have you any idea why your gas mileage isn't great?  It looks like you have gotten good gas mileage several times in the past on Fuelly. :)

 

Paul

[bro1999]

I've been keeping tabs on EV sales for a while, and noticed the Cmax Energi sales were down, but not nearly to the level the hybrids have tanked. Makes sense, I guess. The Energi had not been apart of the MPG issue, though I'm sure there's still been an effect.

Edited May 4, 2014 by bro1999

[plus 3 golfer]

Have you seen this thread and charts.

[jmckinley]

I checked FORD Fusion web site and the best eco-boost HWY mileage is 37mpg and your Fuelly average 36.9mpg. I also noticed your best tank on Fuelly was 42.8, good gas mileage.  I'm sure the Fusion wasn't getting that good. BTW I don't know if you calculated the difference of actual miles(GPS) vs odometer reading, which is off by about 1.5% or .5mpg to the better which would compute out to 37.4mpg. Not great but still better than ECO Boost Fusion.  Have you any idea why your gas mileage isn't great?  It looks like you have gotten good gas mileage several times in the past on Fuelly. :)

 

Paul

 

All my good fillup to fillup mileages are followed a tank with poor mileage so I attribute the good ones to inadvertent short fills.

 

The Fusion would push 40 mpg at a steady 70 mph on flat roads.  My CMax gets around 36 at 70 mph. I know about the odometer error and that doesn't help improve my averages much. And, I'm running high tire pressures and grill covers.

 

One thing that was interesting about the Fusion is that I could jump in it and run 2 miles to the store and back and get 35+.  Do that in a CMax and, as you know, you'll see around 20-25.

 

Dealer is clueless, says everything checks out OK.  After the Big Fix (13B07) i thought it was improved, at least that's what the dashboard said.  Wrong.  It was actually a little worse.  In my opinion, the biggest thing the new software did was increase the error in the dash readout to fool the people.

 

My point was, as your research confirms, I could have bought a Fusion for $5K less and gotten the same mileage.

[ptjones]

If you ever end up in the Atlanta Area I would like to test your car on my test route if you are interested. Nobody I know gets that kind of Mileage. :)

 

Paul

[hybridbear]

At least Ford acknowledges the issue with C-Max sales.

 

I fear that the C-Max nameplate is forever tarnished now because of the MPG issue.

 

At one point the Ford spokesman in the article below says that Ford remains committed to the C-Max, I hope that he's telling the truth.

 

http://www.autonews....ax-hybrid-sales

[obob]

The Fusion would push 40 mpg at a steady 70 mph on flat roads.  My CMax gets around 36 at 70 mph. I know about the odometer error and that doesn't help improve my averages much. And, I'm running high tire pressures and grill covers.

 

One thing that was interesting about the Fusion is that I could jump in it and run 2 miles to the store and back and get 35+.  Do that in a CMax and, as you know, you'll see around 20-25.

 

Dealer is clueless, says everything checks out OK.  After the Big Fix (13B07) i thought it was improved, at least that's what the dashboard said.  Wrong.  It was actually a little worse.  In my opinion, the biggest thing the new software did was increase the error in the dash readout to fool the people.

 

My point was, as your research confirms, I could have bought a Fusion for $5K less and gotten the same mileage.

 

Highway mileage is closely linked to drag.  The Fusion has lower drag.  The C-Max has much better headroom, so for me better driving position, better viability, but higher drag.

 

There are a lot of factors to get an accurate mileage on a C-Max for a 2 mile drive.  Certainly winter vs spring or summer.  And also the change in the state of charge of the battery.  If I end up with more of battery charge, that is not really accounted for in the mileage.   In the winter, the software charges the battery to warm up the engine.  My mileage on short trips has a wide variation.

 

I would think for driving under 45mph, the C-Max could get substantially better mileage than a Fusion or that matter most standard engine cars if it is driven in a way that takes advantage of the hybrid tech.

 

 

 

Article that I find revealing about the difference between 60 and 65 mph: http://voices.yahoo.com/how-much-power-car-needs-65-vs-60-mph-try-469462.html

 

Description of Drag:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_coefficient  ( I like the chart on the top right with drag for different shapes. )

 

A nice graph of power vs speed: http://voices.yahoo.com/image/126646/index.html?cat=27

 

 

One more note: I find eco-cruise to not be very eco at high speeds. When I first used it I figured it was some computerize thing that would be so much better than how I could do it myself.  My experience at lower speeds (45) is pretty good.

Edited May 4, 2014 by obob

[jmckinley]

Nobody I know gets that kind of Mileage. :)

 

Paul

 

Looking at Fuelly, the 2013 CMax average is 39.6,  Looking at the distribution, I'd venture to say that about half the people reporting on Fuelly get my kind of mileage or less. Apparently the you only know people on the other end of the bell curve.

[mlsstl]

I'm not yet a C-Max owner, but am seriously thinking about one. The Fusion is also on the list of 3 or 4 cars I'm considering so I've been reading the Fusion forms as well as this one.

 

One doesn't have to read too far into the comments from Fusion owners to find out their MPG complaints are just as extensive, if not more so, than those of the C-Maxers. On the flip side, it is actually a bit easier to find a C-Max owner boasting of significantly bettering their EPA figures than it is to find a Fusion owner doing the same.

 

That leaves a couple of possible explanations for the wildly varying results. One is that there is a significant quality control inconsistency between cars. Or, it could be a wide difference in the conscious (or unconscious) driving habits of the owners. Or, it could be external factors such as temperature and route differences such as length of trips, city vs highway, flat vs hills, number of stoplights, etc.

 

While people love answers where one single thing has caused all the problems for everyone, I suspect all three play a role with the driver's habits being the biggest issue. When I test drove a C-Max, I had no problem getting 42 MPG, but I test drive cars no differently than I drive the car I own. My wife, who pushes cars much harder in a test drive than she normally drives, got 29 mpg in the same car over roughly the same route with no substantial weather differences.

 

It seems pretty obvious to me that if one wants the full sports sedan/hatchback experience, the C-Max is the wrong car to buy. Same thing with the peson who spends 80% of their time on the interstate highways at 70+ mph -- the C-Max is the wrong car. Neither is true for me. About 80% of my miles are city/suburban. And while I like a car with a good suspension, road feel and a bit of zip, I'm well past my sports car phase.

 

Frankly, I think the EPA mileage issue is overblown. I happen to like the way the C-Max drives, its size and versitility. There are a few things I like better about the Fusion, but there is no way I can combine the attributes of each into one car. I'll have to choose one or the other. If that choice is for the C-Max, its mileage is going to be a bonus regardless of the exact number. It's going to be a whole lot better than the annual average of 23 mpg I get from my Volvo right now.

[wab]

At least Ford acknowledges the issue with C-Max sales.

 

I fear that the C-Max nameplate is forever tarnished now because of the MPG issue.

 

At one point the Ford spokesman in the article below says that Ford remains committed to the C-Max, I hope that he's telling the truth.

 

http://www.autonews....ax-hybrid-sales

 

" says that Ford remains committed to the C-Max"

 

HHhhmmm statements like usually means a death sentence in the not to far future.

 

BUT maybe there are enough people like dw and I that bought it for the

body style

and the ability to be towed behind a motor home (couldn't be happier, NO fuse, no stop and run the motor, etc!)

MPG was on our list... somewhere.

 

 

Edit: after 13B07 our life time mpg has steadily improved, 40.4 since mid April.

Unfortunately that will drop week after next (675 miles at 75+), hopefully not back to the mid 30’s!

 

Edited May 4, 2014 by wab

[mlsstl]

PS, regarding the C-Max sales figures, I'm in the group that, if I had the chance to ask a question of the powers-that-be at Ford, it would be "what advertising?"

 

I was basically unaware of the car until a Ford salesman showed it to me after I went to the dealership to look at a Fusion. I'm not a voracious TV watcher, but for all the Ford Ecoboost commercials I've seen for their various models, it seems like the C-Max is an abandoned stepchild. I don't ever recall of ever having seen a commercial for the car. It is odd that I constantly see Lincoln commercials for their upscale hybrid, yet zip, zero, nada for the C-Max, which shoots for one of the biggest car segments in the US. Toyota has sold 1.4 million Prius cars since it's introduction -- almost 50% of all the hybrids sold in the US according to Wikipedia.

 

Sure, the C-Max EPA mpg issue was embarrassing, but there have been far worse situations over the years that car makers have made it through. I'd much rather have a Ford car that disappoints a few miles per gallon than a GM product with a bad ignition switch that has killed people. Heck, it was just a few months ago that Toyota reached a $1.6 billion settlement for the sudden acceleration class action lawsuit -- again a life & death problem. I'll take disappointing gas mileage any day of the week.

 

So, I guess this is my question: Is Ford ever going to start advertising their hybrid that is more comfortable, more stylish, a heck of a lot more fun to drive and still gets pretty dang good mileage?

Edited May 5, 2014 by mlsstl

[plus 3 golfer]

Looking at Fuelly, the 2013 CMax average is 39.6,  Looking at the distribution, I'd venture to say that about half the people reporting on Fuelly get my kind of mileage or less. ...

I'd look at it this way.  When I download the 339 fuelly observations for MY 2013, I get a 39.6 mpg mean with a 4 mpg standard deviation around the mean.  Your FE is 36.9 or 2.7 mpg from the mean (less than 1 standard deviation).  So, the 2.7 mpg difference falls within a 50% probability band around the mean (25% below the mean and 25% above the mean).  So, it's likely that 25 % of C-Max Hybrids will get less FE than you and 75% will likely get higher FE than you are getting.

[plus 3 golfer]

PS, regarding the C-Max sales figures, I'm in the group that, if I had the chance to ask a question of the powers-that-be at Ford, it would be "what advertising?"

 

I was basically unaware of the car until a Ford salesman showed it to me after I went to the dealership to look at a Fusion. I'm not a voracious TV watcher, but for all the Ford Ecoboost commercials I've seen for their various models, it seems like the C-Max is an abandoned stepchild. I don't ever recall of ever having seen a commercial for the car. It is odd that I constantly see Lincoln commercials for their upscale hybrid, yet zip, zero, nada for the C-Max, which shoots for one of the biggest car segments in the US. Toyota has sold 1.4 million Prius cars since it's introduction -- almost 50% of all the hybrids sold in the US according to Wikipedia.

 

Sure, the C-Max EPA mpg issue was embarrassing, but there have been far worse situations over the years that car makers have made it through. I'd much rather have a Ford car that disappoints a few miles per gallon than a GM product with a bad ignition switch that has killed people. Heck, it was just a few months ago that Toyota reached a $1.6 billion settlement for the sudden acceleration class action lawsuit -- again a life & death problem. I'll take disappointing gas mileage any day of the week.

 

So, I guess this is my question: Is Ford ever going to start advertising their hybrid that is more comfortable, more stylish, a heck of a lot more fun to drive and still gets pretty dang good mileage?

 

I guess you never saw the "Sal and family" commercial.

 

I think the rub (which I've stated many, many times) is that Ford aggressively promoted 47 mpg (the EPA numbers in those silly C-Max beat the Prius V silhouette commercials in late 2012) knowing that they used the Fusion Hybrid FE test data for the C-Max Hybrid and that the aerodynamic drag of the Fusion was significantly less than the C-Max. Then Raj Nair came up with flimsy reasons why the C-Max didn't score well in FE tests by reviewers instead of coming clean.  This was not a safety issue just a deceptive campaign to promote C-Max sales.  Ford can't resolve the FE issue (like manufacturers do with safety issues) but tried to appease owners with a $550 payment. But they haven't covered prospective diminished value from the revised FE numbers. If one keeps their C-Max long enough, diminished value will be moot.

 

Of course I knew I wouldn't come close to 47 mpg when I purchased in Dec. 2012 having done my due diligence on FE.  I bought the C-Max for the reasons given in the Sal Commercial and expected low 40s mpg. 

Edited May 5, 2014 by Plus 3 Golfer

[ptjones]

Looking at Fuelly, the 2013 CMax average is 39.6,  Looking at the distribution, I'd venture to say that about half the people reporting on Fuelly get my kind of mileage or less. Apparently the you only know people on the other end of the bell curve.

Well I did the math and it comes out 1st there are a few non Hybrids stuck in with the average MPG's. 2nd there are 328 hybrids listed with 52 with no average. 3rd there are 66CMAX's with 37mpg  or worse mpg's. 4th divid 66 by 276 you get 24%. So you are in the bottom 1/4 on Fuelly.  Plus 3 Golfer it is interesting that we came up with the same numbers using to different approaches. 

 

jmckinley the offer is still open if you make it down this way. :)

 

Paul

[Ponypower]

I have owned my 2014 Ford C-Max since January, the coldest month in Chicago in years.  My overall MPG is 42.7 with 2800 miles on the car.  With the warmer temperatures in April, I have averaged around 50 MPG+ around town.  I have just completed my first 600 miles per tank of gas. I guess I am very lucky with no problems or trips back to the dealer.  I would not trade this car in for nothing.(its FANTASTIC) I have owned 4 brand new Fords in the last three years, and the c-Max is by far the most fun to drive. I would encourage the people having trouble with their cars is to find a good Ford service department, that cares. From what I read on this forum, I think its a small percentage of cars that are having problems. If anyone is thinking about buying a C-Max, test drive one yourself and come up with your own conclusion.

 

GO C-Max

 

Thanks to all the C-Max fans

[mlsstl]

Watched the commercial on the link you posted. Have to say I don't ever remember seeing it. Same with the Cadillac-stye spoof that one finds when you do a C-Max ad search on Google.

 

I gather the revised 45/40/43 figures from last summer are now solid EPA figures (with the variance that has always included for different drivers regardless of make/model), so it does seem they should start telling people about the car again.

[Rathbone]

I've been pretty fortunate with fuel economy.  Without paying much attention to it, I'm averaging about 43 mpg (since it got a little warmer).  I was looking for something with just decent gas milage that I could fit in.  I tried the Fusion, but couldn't sit up straight in it without touching the roof.  When I tried the C-Max, I was sold - great handling, pickup, technology, and headroom!  Folks just need to drive it in order for sales to pick up.  Also, Ford definitely needs to advertise it.  As for now, I rarely see another C-Max, and I kind of like the uniqueness.  I haven't regretted my purchase in the least.

[salsaguy]

I'm seeing them more and more on the road now. Last week was the best. I saw 2 climaxes on 2 back to back days (4 different climaxes in 2 days)!!!

 

I agree they didn't advertise it enough composed to their other lines.

I agree the FE issue dogs hurt it's reputation.it's sad since I really feel the prius was looking old and to much of the same thing for to long and the market was really ready for something different and new.if ford had done the sticker correct and lowered it from the beginning they world have a real winner now.

 

We are still considering the cmax now that our finances are a little better...we just got a new card from Ford to get $750 incentive cash back or 0% APR and $2000 cash. Might be time to buy it now on the low end before demand and gas prices go back up. Dealers are probably very hungry and willing to negotiate lower to get it off the lot and not have inventory stuck which costs than every day it sits.

 

Just hope they don't cancel the model and then all of us will have issues getting service/support for it.

[ScubaDadMiami]

My understanding is that the manufacturer has to continue to make parts and do service for at least 10 years after model discontinuation. I got this info from a friend that bought a Hummer when they were being discontinued; I haven't verified from other sources. So, even if they do discontinue the C-MAX, we should be okay.