2014/ 2015 c-max questions

[ptjones]

Number one it is bigger, more head room , storage space in the back and better gas mileage. Doesn't look like everything else .Try to get the XPlan with MCA, EAA or a number other organizations. :)

 

Paul

 

We were in the showroom the other day and my wife is insisting we just get a Focus since they are cheaper in price compared to a C-max. How do I convince her that the C-max is better?

[C-MaxSea]

That's a toughy Fordfan82.  Maybe remind her of that back problem of yours that crops up now & then making it hard to get into the lower slung Focus.  Does she like to hear her music clearer, especially in city, no comparison, the C-Max makes listening much more enjoyable.  You will make up the cost difference over __ yrs  Trying to help, good luck, but go with her decision if she is not fully convinced of your arguments.  ;)  Nick  

Edited June 21, 2014 by C-MaxSea

[fordfan82]

That's a toughy Fordfan82. Maybe remind her of that back problem of yours that crops up now & then making it hard to get into the lower slung Focus. Does she like to hear her music clearer, especially in city, no comparison, the C-Max makes listening much more enjoyable. You will make up the cost difference over __ yrs Trying to help, good luck, but go with her decision if she is not fully convinced of your arguments. ;) Nick

When we were at the dealership, there was a Focus and C-max side by side and I was showing her the difference with visibility and how the C-max has way more of it. How does the C-max make music more enjoyable? Next oil change they are going to let us test drive one for a few days to see if we like it.

[plus 3 golfer]

We were in the showroom the other day and my wife is insisting we just get a Focus since they are cheaper in price compared to a C-max. How do I convince her that the C-max is better?

If you can use an EV, Ford has $11k cash off MY2014 Focus Electrics in dealer stock.  With the Federal tax credit of $7500, that puts the cost generally less than $20k.  AZ has no Focus Electrics in stock.  Most MY2014s were sold when Ford offered $6k cash several months ago. I guess Ford is clearing them out for the 2015s which may be in production now.

 

The C-Max is a better driving experience for me.  Sitting higher is better - easier entry and better sight lines in C-Max.  C-Max is quieter - sound level @ 70 mph is 64.1 db for C-Max vs 66.5 db for the Focus per Edmunds.  C-Max should get better overall fuel economy - see if you can test both for a few days and drive both over the same mixed routes and check the average mpg you get from the displays. 

[C-MaxSea]

Fordfan82.  Driving the C-Max in EV esp. in city, at stop lights, in heavy traffic is much quieter (better music/listening/talking experience) than being in any ICE vehicle.  (I am assuming you are comparing the standard C-Max Hybrid to a standard ICE Focus, and not the Electric Focus).  Of course the C-Max Energi or Focus Electric would be an even better music experience having extended E capabilities.  And, as P3G points out, the C-Max is a scosh quieter on the freeway than the ICE Focus.  Your test drives should help to differentiate - nothing wrong with letting her decide though.   Nick 

Edited June 21, 2014 by C-MaxSea

[cbharvest]

Well that's a relief the drivers seat does go up and down. As long as my wife finds the cloth seats comfortable and easy adjustment for the seat then She will be fine with the SE and doesn't need the SEL. I know she likes the intelligent access but says she can live without. Don't really know why the online rep wouldn't know it has a height adjustment on it. The Escape we have now has leather seats and she loves the comfort of them. Our other car is a 2014 fusion with cloth seats and she has a hard time getting comfortable. Maybe it's best to test drive both models to see the comfort level as it's different for everyone. Did anyone bring their salesperson along for a test drive?

I don't know if you got your C-Max yet, but I got an SE with very few options, and added Ford leather seats aftermarket, because I too love them. It was way cheaper than getting the SEL and a bunch of options that I didn't want to pay for. You might consider doing that. The dealership ordered the leather and installed them in two days. They smell great!

[fordfan82]

I saw this C-max and it's a pretty good configuration.  I forgot where  but I read on this forum somewhere where the cloth heated seats felt different as far as comfort goes than the Cloth seats that weren't heated. Since we live in Michigan, it wouldn't be a bad idea to get the winter package. I tried to play around with the basic radio but I couldn't see my wife or myself using that esp when trying to drive on the road.

[hybridbear]

If you can use an EV, Ford has $11k cash off MY2014 Focus Electrics in dealer stock.  With the Federal tax credit of $7500, that puts the cost generally less than $20k.  AZ has no Focus Electrics in stock.  Most MY2014s were sold when Ford offered $6k cash several months ago. I guess Ford is clearing them out for the 2015s which may be in production now.

 

The C-Max is a better driving experience for me.  Sitting higher is better - easier entry and better sight lines in C-Max.  C-Max is quieter - sound level @ 70 mph is 64.1 db for C-Max vs 66.5 db for the Focus per Edmunds.  C-Max should get better overall fuel economy - see if you can test both for a few days and drive both over the same mixed routes and check the average mpg you get from the displays. 

I would second the recommendation for the Focus Electric. We're getting one next week to go with our Fusion Hybrid. They're incredible little cars. However, the $11k is for leasing the Focus Electric and that includes the tax credit because the leasing company gets to claim it. If you buy the "cash back" incentive is $6k and then you get up to $7500 as a federal tax credit. I say "up to $7500" because if you only pay $5000 in federal taxes then you'll only get a $5000 tax credit. The tax credit cannot excede your tax burder. This is why when my parents bought their C-Max Energi they planned how much money to take out of their 401k that year so that they would have a net tax burden at the end of the year of less than $100 after claiming the Energi tax credit & the EVSE install tax credit.

[plus 3 golfer]

Interesting because when I saw the $11k offer, there was no obvious mention on the Ford website when you build the car that it applied to leasing. I recall doing a quick internet search and others also assumed it was a purchase discount.  When I called the local Ford dealer, I specifically asked the salesman about the tax credit and he never mentioned that the $11k offer was a leasing offer and indicated that the tax credit was in addition to the $11k.  Anyways, since the dealer said a few days later they couldn't get a Focus EV, I didn't pursue it any further.

 

I just looked again on Ford's website and built the car.  The build clearly shows the $11k incentive (no mention of lease) taken off the MSRP and when you click on the available incentives balloon in the build, the reference was program "RCL Available Cash: program 50256".  Googling 50256 does show it's their "Red Carpet Lease" program.  I hate to say this but when is Ford going to stop with misleading the consumer and bring transparency to their business.  I guess the consumer is suppose to know RLC = Red Carpet Lease. ;)  So for purchase, it's $13,500 (cash and the tax credit benefit) off the MSRP which is okay but I probably wouldn't have purchased one at that price. Also, I don't think the Ford Electric is part of the "X Plan" program.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Plus 3 Golfer

[kostby]

 I guess the consumer is suppose to know RLC = Red Carpet Lease. 

(SIC)

 

I realize that for many in these forums, the C-MAX is their first Ford ever and often the first "American manufacturer" ever, or at least the first one in 30 or 40 years, so yeah, a little less 'car dealer jargon' in the online terms and conditions and pricing tools would be helpful.

 

Ford was using that name (RCL=Red Carpet Lease) at least when we purchased our 1996 Taurus (18 years), and probably even our 1988.5 Escort (26 years), so the term and abbreviations have been in use "a good long while" and most long-time (sounds nicer than "old") Ford customers are familiar with it.

[plus 3 golfer]

I've owned two other Fords - 1965 Mustang and a 1986 Mercury Sable Wagon. I've never leased as I keep cars a long time.  So, RCL meant nothing to me. :)

 

I was suspicious of the price and that's why I called a local dealership.  When I talked to the salesman, I said I have a question on the price and said "I can't believe that the Focus electric has a $11,000 cash incentive and I'll get the Federal Tax Credit of $7500 also. To which he said yes you also get the $7500 Federal tax credit.  I said, this is unbelieveable that I can get $18,500 off the Fusion Electric.  He said yes that's why there are none in AZ but maybe some in CA.  I would have eventually discovered that it was a lease offer had he found one.   

 

The first pic below is what one gets when clicking Focus Electric on Ford's website.  Note the clearly stated lease in the first pic.  The middle pic is what comes up for build and price. No mention of lease in the middle pic but the $11,000 pops up..  The 3rd pic shows the "circle i" balloon.  Again no mention of lease except the RCL.  Had I clicked on the "circle i" balloon in the first pic, the lease math comes up with the numbers including the $11,000 cash incentive.  Also, when one goes to Fords incentives web page, the $11,000  does not come up anywhere including under leasing offers.  The $6,000 cash comes up under financing and retail offers.

 

Again not very transparent descriptions of what is going on as one navigates the Ford site.

 

[kostby]

Searching a few random zip codes, there are two Focus Electrics in Detroit, six in Chicago, twelve in New York City, more than forty-five in the Atlanta area, and more than one hundred (nearly 200!) in the Los Angeles area.

 

Of course getting one home, 75 miles or so per charge, would take some time...

Edited June 22, 2014 by kostby

[plus 3 golfer]

Searching a few random zip codes, there are two Focus Electrics in Detroit, six in Chicago, twelve in New York City, more than forty-five in the Atlanta area, and more than one hundred (nearly 200!) in the Los Angeles area.

 

Of course getting one home, 75 miles or so per charge, would take some time...

I think I could probably get it shipped for $600 or so from CA. But, it doesn't make economic sense for me as the mileage I'd being replacing is my around town C-Max miles (12k per year max.). So that saves about 300 gallons a year or around $1050 less around $270 for charging kWh. So, with additional routine maintenance saving, I might save $850 year with the Focus. Even bumping that up to $1000 as I'd get rid of my small SUV (1000 miles per year), the loss of $5k ($11k-$6k) adds around 5 years to simple payback.

[fordfan82]

It's a fantastic deal and They don't have a deal like that for the C-max and the most I've seen on an electric one is a 6,000 rebate. My wife and I drive each other's cars a lot and although she can fit into a focus, I have an issue with the headroom. I'd much rather get a C-max Hybrid.

[ptjones]

It's a fantastic deal and They don't have a deal like that for the C-max and the most I've seen on an electric one is a 6,000 rebate. My wife and I drive each other's cars a lot and although she can fit into a focus, I have an issue with the headroom. I'd much rather get a C-max Hybrid.

Sounds like the CMAX is the only way to go. LOL :)

 

Paul

[kostby]

Here's the 'Deal of the Century' on a new Tuxedo Black 2014 C-MAX Energi at a dealer near Madison Wisconsin: $125.

 

http://kayseronline.com/Wisconsin/For-Sale/New/Ford/C-MAX/2014-Black-Car/29976507/

 

In case they take it down, here's the screenshot of the price on 06/22/2014 at 9:19 pm:

 

Of course I'm sure there's a disclaimer somewhere about 'not responsible for errors'

 

UPDATE: I checked the VIN# for a Monroney sticker. It is an actual, unsold vehicle, because it has the June 13th, 2014 updated EPA numbers.

Edited June 23, 2014 by kostby

[fordfan82]

Now if we were to lease a c-max and fall in love with driving it and decided to buy it at the end of the lease, can we buy an extended warranty for it?

[ptjones]

Now if we were to lease a c-max and fall in love with driving it and decided to buy it at the end of the lease, can we buy an extended warranty for it?

If your warranty hasn't run out. :)

 

Paul

[shinytop]

The price goes up after 12000 miles.  You can buy an ESP even if you are a leaser.

[fordfan82]

Some have mentioned they hate the wide turning radius on the C-max. What are they referring to and is it really that bad?

[plus 3 golfer]

Some have mentioned they hate the wide turning radius on the C-max. What are they referring to and is it really that bad?

IMO, yes.  I don't recall any of my recent car that had such a wide turning circle of 41 feet (per Consumer Reports).  When I pull into tighter parking spaces, many times I have to straighten up as I start the turn way to late and don't swing out wide enough when pulling in.  My Nissan has a turning circle of 39 feet. My 2009 Jetta TDI had a 36 foot turning circle.  The extra 2-5 feet makes quite a difference.  Also, for comparison the Prius V has a turning circle of 39 feet.

 

When Edmunds tested the car they said:  "Although the C-Max's steering feels normal and not artificially electric as in some hybrids, the car feels like it has an exceptionally wide turning radius. We find ourselves doing multipoint turns just to get into the Starbucks drive-thru. When we look up the actual turning circle reported by Ford, we're genuinely surprised to see it's just 35.8 feet, a typical number for a car this size."  I don't know how Ford measured this turning circle but it is no way the same as was my Jetta TDI and not even close to my Nissan.  

 

To be clear, ConsumerReports turning circle is " the bumper clearance needed to make a U-turn" which is the important number when one is pulling into parking spaces and making U-turns.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Plus 3 Golfer

[ptjones]

It isn't that big of a problem for me, you get use to it and make adjustments in the way you park. Now I really don't notice it anymore. I think the real problem is if you drive more than one car then you notice the difference. IMO :)

 

Paul

 

Some have mentioned they hate the wide turning radius on the C-max. What are they referring to and is it really that bad?

[fbov]

No FWD cars have a reasonable turning circle in my experience, but then, I never drove a Mini. I expect CV joints only work reliably over a modest range of angles, as all my RWD cars are positively nimble compared with any front-drivers; only 32.5' for a Volvo 940, despite a 109" wheelbase.

 

But then, it was 190.5" long, nearly 1.5' more than the C-Max. Odd that CU would prefer the bumper clearance measurement over curb-curb... an urban approach? The short F/R overhang (short body, long wheelbase) making bumper clearance distance deceptively short compared with the size of the circle the tires follow. Plus, if you can't see the bumpers, it's no advantage, and I usually miss by 6" or more! (There are times I want to close the gap, as when parking in a short parking space.)

 

HAve fun,

Frank

[kostby]

It's not a huge deal for me because I park our car, at most, three or four times a day, usually in angle spaces or in our garage.

 

If you park your car dozens of times every day (package delivery person, estimator, appraiser, or sales rep are some occupations that come to mind) in '90-degree' spaces, such as small urban parking lots, high-rise parking garages, some malls, or parallel parking, by all means test-drive a C-MAX and park it several times in each scenario before you decide.

 

The published turning radius of the 2013 C-MAX is 19.2 feet, so the curb-to-curb turning circle would be about 38.4 feet. 

I don't know where Edmunds.com got 35.8 feet reported here - maybe a dyslexic copy-editor?

 

In comparison, a current Chevy Suburban turning circle is 43 feet.

 

We own a 1996 Taurus, and its' turning radius is virtually identical to the C-MAX, at ~38 feet, so the C-MAX doesn't bother me at all.

 

The turning circle of other car I usually drive, a 2003 Pontiac Vibe is about 35.5 feet, about 2 and a half feet tighter.

 

I can 'feel' the difference between the Vibe and the C-MAX only when I'm trying to get into an especially tight 90-degree parking space in a mall or downtown parking garage. In those situations, with the steering wheel at full lock, I wish the car could turn about 1 foot tighter than it actually does. So I back up a bit and turn in again.

[plus 3 golfer]

I just went out an approximated the curb-to-curb of the C-Max at 38+ feet. So, 38.4 feet appears correct.  But here's the issue: the front end of the C-Max extends well beyond the outer edge of the tire when completing the 180 * turn - I'd estimate over 2 feet.  In addition, it appears that the outer edge of the C-Max tire is inside its body side line which adds a several inches to the start of the turn should there be an immovable obstruction on the outside of the contemplated turn.   I also measured my Nissan Rogue curb-to-curb at about 36+ feet. The front end sticks out about a foot+ when completing the turn and the outer edge of the tires appears even with the side body panels.   

 

So, the difference between my C-Max and Rogue is about 20 inches curb-to-curb (as measured on the ground).  This in itself is a big difference.  But add to that the additional "overhang" of the C-Max and it easy to see why making a U-turn with cars parked on both sides of the street or making right turns into tight 90* parking spaces can be problematic.  I've driven / owned other larger cars with 38+ foot curb-to-curb turning circles but don't remember any that seemed as problematic in such simple things as following the curbs of drive-thrus and not hitting the metal / concrete posts. :) 

 

Bottom line:  the 41 foot turning circle can be a minor annoyance especially if one forgets what car they are driving. :)