Validated yet UPSET at Ford

[kostby]

Undeniable Fact of Life #7294: Car salespeople are paid to move inventory, not to spend time studying brochures and memorizing specs.

 

The salespeople who DO take the time to learn about the products they sell, mostly do it on their own time, because their time on the sales floor is far too valuable to 'waste' studying spec sheets and model comparisons. Knowledgeable salespeople appeal to the "high-information" consumers (like us) who also spend lots of time researching the cars, but that's probably still only 2 in 10 buyers.

 

The other 8 out of 10 buy their cars based on monthly payment, color, how the seats feel, immediate need, 'newest-thing-out-there', perceived 'once-in-lifetime-sale-price', CU magazine ratings, or because someone at the office has one and the buyer thinks it's somewhere between "kinda cute" and "really sharp".

 

The best way for any manufacturer to increase the sales of the ANY car model (but especially a tech-heavy-hybrid like C-MAX) would be to first REQUIRE EVERY dealership salesperson to drive one for a full month. You don't learn nearly as much about a car just by reading about it or hearing about it. It's after you use it that you discover and understand the features, and can describe to a potential buyer how YOU use those features. Those personal insights are what convince some prospects to become buyers.

 

That's also why many of us here have become C-MAX 'evangelists' and have probably influenced at least one other person to check out C-MAX when car shopping.

Edited June 25, 2014 by kostby

[MichaelM]

I have to agree with @kostby here, I have been yelled at more than once by my wife for wasting time in the parking lot talking with someone who asked about the C-Max and how I like it. What are some of the features? How is the mileage, the ride, the noise?....Yada, Yada Yada.

My problem is I like the car so much, I answer them.

Edited June 25, 2014 by MichaelM

[Laurel]

If I was the queen of Ford, I would have separate dealerships for hybrids etc.  Before we bought we inquired about the reputation for our dealership and basically it was stellar.  However the respondents were all non-hybrid owners and generally were driving Ford pickups and SUV's. 

[mtcmax]

Amen Laurel.

[salsaguy]

dont stop that

keep it up

the more they know the better

and the more CMaxes we can help sell and take over Prii kingdom one day :P

 

I have to agree with @kostby here, I have been yelled at more than once by my wife for wasting time in the parking lot talking with someone who asked about the C-Max and how I like it. What are some of the features? How is the mileage, the ride, the noise?....Yada, Yada Yada.

My problem is I like the car so much, I answer them.

[Recumpence]

I have 57,000 of nearly all in town mileage on my car and I love it.

 

I am having front strut plate bumping noises now when turning the wheel, though. But that is a front wheel drive car issue in general, not a cmax issue. Every fwd car I have owned has eventually made this sound. So, aside from that (which is no big deal to fix or even to live with) the car is stellar.

 

Matt

[robfixit]

I hardly ever talk to people who know what a CMax is. And when I tell them about it or show it to them, they are all impressed. Even at the new lower EPA rating (and very conservative rating if you drive it right), with the better ride and features, I still think Ford is missing the boat and not marketing it very well. I bought mine because I fell in love with a red one I drove by a year ago, and then did a lot of research on my own. On my second tank, I am getting 44mpg, with lots of short trips and freeway miles mixed in, not the best for mileage, and it is not even broken in. Admittedly I drive it to get good mileage, though I will accelerate faster when there are people behind me... And I am looking forward to my check next month, that I will put towards my 7 year extended warranty..too high tech of a vehicle to risk not having that extra protection.

[Adrian_L]

I don't get it.  Where are the cool "we're killing Prius" ads on TV?!  I watched a half dozen Prius vs C-max hybrid comparisons on YouTube etc. and the verdict was the same every time--C-max:  better car, better options, a level higher of interior luxury and a more fun ride. 

 

Thank heavens for independent research, eh?  My saleswoman didn't know what the green "ready to drive" symbol meant.  She thought the glass roof could be opened and had no idea that the Energi had an all-elecric range.  

Edited July 7, 2014 by Adrian_L

[Laurel]

Adrian we live in the lower mainland.  Same experience as you.  It is very sad that the sales people are so poorly informed.  In our experience this lack of information extends throughout the whole dealership.  Hate to say that as we have a good car, but it certainly has coloured our experience with Ford.  I honestly can't believe that they are allowed to sell hybrids.  That is why I think Ford should have dealerships specializing in the hybrids only.  You wouldn't believe some of the things we have heard at the dealership.

[Jus-A-CMax]

Adrian we live in the lower mainland.  Same experience as you.  It is very sad that the sales people are so poorly informed.  In our experience this lack of information extends throughout the whole dealership.  Hate to say that as we have a good car, but it certainly has coloured our experience with Ford.  I honestly can't believe that they are allowed to sell hybrids.  That is why I think Ford should have dealerships specializing in the hybrids only.  You wouldn't believe some of the things we have heard at the dealership.

 

 

@Ashley aka Ford Service - please pay attention. Laurel makes a great point. Sometimes, Ford should peep in now and then and learn sometime from REAL OWNERs dealing with REAL DEALERS (or lack thereof), not some bogus surveys.

 

ps while I am @ it, KUDOS to Galpin Ford - Brandon Boeckmann & Tom Swire, they run a great and tight ship there!

[FordService]

@Ashley aka Ford Service - please pay attention. Laurel makes a great point. Sometimes, Ford should peep in now and then and learn sometime from REAL OWNERs dealing with REAL DEALERS (or lack thereof), not some bogus surveys.

 

ps while I am @ it, KUDOS to Galpin Ford - Brandon Boeckmann & Tom Swire, they run a great and tight ship there!

 

Jus-A-CMax (and anyone else interested),

 

I'm always happy to document any feedback you guys have about your dealer experiences, both good and bad. All you need to do is send me a PM with the details, as well as your name, phone number, VIN, mileage, and dealer info. I'll make sure it gets into the computer system.

 

Ashley

[Laurel]

Ashley I think that Ford needs to "just read" the forums.  In a perfect world, we would let you know our personal info. and all the outlandish things that have happened at our dealerships, but in real life we still have to go in there for service for our cars.  I am not prepared to be labelled as that is exactly what would happen, and then heavens knows how we would be treated?  Now we have indifference and ignorance about the hybrid.  I couldn't face that plus hostility.  I am getting more assertive in my old age and have started throwing hissy fits when they cross the line now, but that shouldn't happen to customers.

[kostby]

Not about Ford, but my favorite story about being 'assertive' with a car dealer was when the girlfriend of a co-worker took her bright red 1-month-old 1990 Honda Prelude Si 4WS back to the dealership for the first service. A dealership employee managed to get her brand new car severely t-boned right in front of the dealership that afternoon.

The dealership owner apologized profusely and said they would fix her car 'good as new'.

She crawled over the owner's desk to get right in his face and tell him that they absolutely owed her a new car.

And she got it! 

A few weeks later, the sales manager's wife got an almost-new bright red Honda Prelude Si 4WS...

 

EDIT: Here's a YouTube video of the 4WS feature (4-wheel-steering in action):

 

Edited July 8, 2014 by kostby

[John Sparks]

Adrian we live in the lower mainland.  Same experience as you.  It is very sad that the sales people are so poorly informed.  In our experience this lack of information extends throughout the whole dealership.  Hate to say that as we have a good car, but it certainly has coloured our experience with Ford.  I honestly can't believe that they are allowed to sell hybrids.  That is why I think Ford should have dealerships specializing in the hybrids only.  You wouldn't believe some of the things we have heard at the dealership.

I don't get it.  Where are the cool "we're killing Prius" ads on TV?!  I watched a half dozen Prius vs C-max hybrid comparisons on YouTube etc. and the verdict was the same every time--C-max:  better car, better options, a level higher of interior luxury and a more fun ride. 

 

Thank heavens for independent research, eh?  My saleswoman didn't know what the green "ready to drive" symbol meant.  She thought the glass roof could be opened and had no idea that the Energi had an all-elecric range.

 

It's not that the dealerships are poorly informed, it's the salespeople. All the information we could want is at our fingertips. The problem is that the sales people do not understand the concept of a hybrid, it's crazy, but the average person believes that they have to plug in a hybrid and a large number of those people believe that hybrid means "no gas". The public understanding of what they are, at least in my neck of the woods, is not that good. The people that do understand the "concept" see the vehicles as being slow, unresponsive, and just no fun to drive, which is a good description of the Prius. :D The fact of the matter is if sales people truly understand our current hybrid Powertrain, it's benefits, and why it truly is the best Hybrid Platform, we would out-sell the Prius all day long, but sadly they do not and the availability in my area is low. We have 1 Cmax right now, go 2 miles down the road and Toyota has nearly 30 Prius.

 

Also we cannot sell the Electic Focus or any Energi models here because we are not an Electric Store. Our owner doesn't see a benefit in the cost vs return, again I just don't believe he understands it, especially when almost every other dealer in a 100 mile radius has made the switch. There's lots of benefit to the Energi, I've lost several sales because of it but I digress, nothing I can do to change it.

 

Although I say all of that, take the hybrid out of it and there's always sales people that just want to sell you a car and send you packing. All they care about is the sale and don't know anything about any vehicle. Those are the sales people that give us a bad name. Cars are complicated now, it's a lot different than 10-15 years ago and that tactic won't work forever.

 

[ptjones]

It's not that the dealerships are poorly informed, it's the salespeople. All the information we could want is at our fingertips. The problem is that the sales people do not understand the concept of a hybrid, it's crazy, but the average person believes that they have to plug in a hybrid and a large number of those people believe that hybrid means "no gas". The public understanding of what they are, at least in my neck of the woods, is not that good. The people that do understand the "concept" see the vehicles as being slow, unresponsive, and just no fun to drive, which is a good description of the Prius. :D The fact of the matter is if sales people truly understand our current hybrid Powertrain, it's benefits, and why it truly is the best Hybrid Platform, we would out-sell the Prius all day long, but sadly they do not and the availability in my area is low. We have 1 Cmax right now, go 2 miles down the road and Toyota has nearly 30 Prius.

 

Also we cannot sell the Electic Focus or any Energi models here because we are not an Electric Store. Our owner doesn't see a benefit in the cost vs return, again I just don't believe he understands it, especially when almost every other dealer in a 100 mile radius has made the switch. There's lots of benefit to the Energi, I've lost several sales because of it but I digress, nothing I can do to change it.

 

Although I say all of that, take the hybrid out of it and there's always sales people that just want to sell you a car and send you packing. All they care about is the sale and don't know anything about any vehicle. Those are the sales people that give us a bad name. Cars are complicated now, it's a lot different than 10-15 years ago and that tactic won't work forever.

 

My Dealer is the same even when they sell a bunch of FFH, they are finally getting a 2014 CMAX. They really don't know how to sell Hybrids. :)

 

Paul

[Jus-A-CMax]

@Ashley - much appreciated, as always :) I think you really do have my details and if Ford wants to download anything from my CMax, go ahead. Its been unbelievably good (well..as soon as I typed that, I recall some weird MFT issues now and then with my USB like playlist go AWOL and returning the next start up). Anyway, I digress - thanks!

[Adrian_L]

I'm slightly ashamed to say I bought our C-max from my least favorite dealership because of price.  But none of the others were willing to match the price. 

 

I think I probably mentioned some of these already.   Dealership Q&As.

 

Q:  What is the all-electric range of the Energi with a fully-charged battery?

A:  Well, the car uses gas and electric together (Ivan: Key West Ford)

 

Q:  Does the pano roof open?

A;  I'm sure it does.  You just have to find the right button (Jennifer, Key West Ford)

 

Q:  What does that little green car symbol mean?

A:  No idea, sorry.  It's probably in the manual (Jennifer, Key West Ford)

 

Q:  When does the gas motor kick in?  (test driving an Energi)

A:  It ONLY turns on when you have the heater or A/C on. (Jennifer, Key West Ford)

 

Q:  Does the gas motor run when the elecric motor is on?

A:  Basically the electric motor is running the transmission all the time.  The gas motor just recharges the battery (John--Richport Ford)

 

Q:  How does the C-max hybrid mileage compare with Prius?

A:  These are Prius killers!   Ford bought the hybrid technology from Toyota!"  (John-Richport Ford)

 

And last but not least:

"Be careful with your FOB.  They are $400-$500 to replace!" (Jennifer-Key West Ford)

[mtcmax]

I am cancelling cable. This forum is more entertaining.

[Jus-A-CMax]

:lol2:  adrian, thanks for the laughs  :thumbsup:

[fbov]

... Ford bought the hybrid technology from Toyota!" 

And lest we forget where Toyota got it...

https://www.google.as/patents/US3566717

[ptjones]

I'm not sure but I thought they both have Patents and share back and forth. I believe patents are only good for 14years. :)

 

Paul

[fbov]

It was 17 years from date issued, 1971, but now 20 years from the date of application filing. 14 years is for design patents, now 15 years.

 

Yes, all large companies, like mine, cross-license patent portfolios reciprocally with other companies. No one has all the knowledge...

 

Frank

[hybridbear]

And lest we forget where Toyota got it...

https://www.google.as/patents/US3566717

And, Toyota & Ford both supposedly used technology patented by Paice.

http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/8337-ford-sued-for-patent-infringement-in-new-fusion-c-max-hybrids/

[salsaguy]

Probably having the dealerships sales force focus-ing (pun intended) on the higher margin cars like the Mustangs and Fusion and trucks instead.

I agree they are missing the boat by not touting all the great stuff where it does best out many other cars in their competing segment.surely they fired the last marketing guy after that fiasco with the cartoon commercials.yuck

 

Adrian we live in the lower mainland.  Same experience as you.  It is very sad that the sales people are so poorly informed.  In our experience this lack of information extends throughout the whole dealership.  Hate to say that as we have a good car, but it certainly has coloured our experience with Ford.  I honestly can't believe that they are allowed to sell hybrids.  That is why I think Ford should have dealerships specializing in the hybrids only.  You wouldn't believe some of the things we have heard at the dealership.

Edited July 12, 2014 by salsaguy

[salsaguy]

Mr. Sparks, that is exactly why the dealerships are responsible to TEACH the customers/public about the tech and the car so thnat they (customer) becomes knowledgeable and then go out and tell their other friends as well. It's free advertising if they would just make the effort. Sad sad.

The internet has a wealth of info.they can at least try. Customers usually always know more about the car than the seller. It had been my experience when I bought the brand new cars I've owned in my life (Ford Probe GT, and 2 Volkswagen Passats)

It's not that the dealerships are poorly informed, it's the salespeople. All the information we could want is at our fingertips. The problem is that the sales people do not understand the concept of a hybrid, it's crazy, but the average person believes that they have to plug in a hybrid and a large number of those people believe that hybrid means "no gas". The public understanding of what they are, at least in my neck of the woods, is not that good. The people that do understand the "concept" see the vehicles as being slow, unresponsive, and just no fun to drive, which is a good description of the Prius. :D The fact of the matter is if sales people truly understand our current hybrid Powertrain, it's benefits, and why it truly is the best Hybrid Platform, we would out-sell the Prius all day long, but sadly they do not and the availability in my area is low. We have 1 Cmax right now, go 2 miles down the road and Toyota has nearly 30 Prius.

Also we cannot sell the Electic Focus or any Energi models here because we are not an Electric Store. Our owner doesn't see a benefit in the cost vs return, again I just don't believe he understands it, especially when almost every other dealer in a 100 mile radius has made the switch. There's lots of benefit to the Energi, I've lost several sales because of it but I digress, nothing I can do to change it.

Although I say all of that, take the hybrid out of it and there's always sales people that just want to sell you a car and send you packing. All they care about is the sale and don't know anything about any vehicle. Those are the sales people that give us a bad name. Cars are complicated now, it's a lot different than 10-15 years ago and that tactic won't work forever.
 

Edited July 12, 2014 by salsaguy