13 vs 14 - Job Well Done Ford!

[FoutsNC]

After almost 2 years of loving our 2013 C-Max Hybrid, the lease was coming to an end and we needed to check out our options.  We had actually found a 2013 Energi on a lot and thought we might be able to really get a good deal on this one.  After much negotiation and a couple of overnight trips, we chose to get the 2014 for a few reasons.  The rebates on the 2014 Energi actually make it a bit cheaper than the Hybrid right now.  Oddly enough, the 2014 had a better total incentive for us than the 2013.  The dealer was willing to make the 2013 a little cheaper, yet they couldn't overcome the difference in CAP cost (residual for leases) between the 2 for us.  We received $5757 in Ford rebates (lease) and another $500 for lease end incentives.  The local Ford dealer also picked up our last payments for the 2013 for us.  With the $4000 Federal Tax Rebate (UPDATE - Plus 3 Golfer provided the information from the IRS form that only the Lessor can claim the credit. This would be FMC.), that's well over $10,000 in savings!  I also have the X-Plan for some additional savings.

 

The differences between the 2013 are minimal, yet they do make a much bigger difference than I first thought. I think Ford is really listening to what this forum has to say!  First, the chrome trim around the door pulls and side vents are gone!  This caused a bit of a glare in the 2013 that could be troublesome in the sunlight.  They added a tray to the cavernous console to help make better use of the area.  A pocket was also added to the side of the passenger seat for small documents, a phone, or similar type items.  A mesh pocket was also added to the side of the console in the passenger area that's perfect for holding a phone.  The steering feels tighter and the overall pep seems to be much better in EV (These may be due to a newer car feel?).  I have also noticed that the A/C compressor is almost unnoticable in comparison to the 2013.  The A/C on the 2013 was honestly embarrasing to me at times when the car itself was so quiet.  It's been almost 100 degrees here over the last couple of days, and it's been great to have that quiet A/C running :)  I am also averaging much better numbers in hybrid only mode than I was expecting.  We will see how it goes in the long run for us.

 

I think the other differences have been hashed over several times.  These are the things I have noticed so far that I can think of.  I loved our 2013 C-Max Hybrid and bought a 2014 because of how much I enjoyed it.  I didn't expect the rebates to make the Energi cheaper for us, and I really didn't expect all the nice small touches!

 

Job well done Ford!

Edited June 29, 2014 by FoutsNC

[fordfan82]

I was told there's no early bird program going on. Wondering how Ford picked yours up? Does the energi start at 36,000?

[FoutsNC]

It wasn't called an Early Bird Program exactly, as it used to be.  The $500 was a promotion that I saw when I was on Ford Credit paying my last payment.  It's still shows up on my account as "Lease Renewal Cash". 

 

The payments were actually paid by the dealership through negotiation.  I updated my post to reflect that.  I have purchased several cars through this dealer and have a good relationship with them, which may help a bit with that portion of the deal.

[FoutsNC]

The ford.com site states that the Energi currently starts at $32,920.  I honestly don't remember our exact sticker price.  When lease negotiation is giong on, the last thing I worry about is sticker :)  It's all about residuals, payments, and costs to carry.  For cash deals, you should be able to get them a little off of that and still have some good rebates. 

 

With the rebates on our lease deal, I think getting the lease for the rebates and purchasing it from that point might be the best option at this moment.  You would have to look at all the differences though for yourself.

 

By the way, this cycle ends July 6th if you are looking to get something now.

[C-MaxSea]

Great work / news FoutsNC !!! 

 

There are deals to be had out there folks on our C-Max (one way or the other) - plan your attack & execute!

 

Nick

[timwil56]

Welcome to the Energi wing of the C-Max family. I'm not clear, did you lease or buy this time? If you chose to lease, I'm not sure if you're eligible for the tax rebate on a lease, but i could be wrong, first time today, but it does happen frequently.

[hybridbear]

Welcome to the Energi wing of the C-Max family. I'm not clear, did you lease or buy this time? If you chose to lease, I'm not sure if you're eligible for the tax rebate on a lease, but i could be wrong, first time today, but it does happen frequently.

On a lease the tax credit is claimed by the leasing company. Thus the $11,000 Ford incentive for the Focus Electric that was being discussed in the other thread. Getting $5757 cash back plus the $4000 federal tax credit to lease an Energi is incredible.

[plus 3 golfer]

 

...We received $5757 in Ford rebates (lease) and another $500 for lease end incentives.  The local Ford dealer also picked up our last payments for the 2013 for us.  With the $4000 Federal Tax Rebatte, that's well over $10,000 in savings!  I also have the X-Plan for some additional savings.

 

....

 

 

On a lease the tax credit is claimed by the leasing company. Thus the $11,000 Ford incentive for the Focus Electric that was being discussed in the other thread. Getting $5757 cash back plus the $4000 federal tax credit to lease an Energi is incredible.

 

I believe the $5757 includes the $4000 Fed. tax credit as the $5757  applies to the Red Carpet Lease not a cash purchase. At least that what it appears to be on Ford.com.   Again the RLC customer cash balloon. ;)  The X-Plan shows a savings of $1530 off MSRP.  So, this doesn't appear to be a "Job Well Done Ford" as the Fed. Tax Credit doesn't apply to the lessee.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Plus 3 Golfer

[FoutsNC]

Yes, I did lease the vehicle.  From my understanding of the rebate, my conversations with FMC and the finance manager, and my signed paperwork, the rebate does apply to lease terms of 36 months or more. It's also stated on the IRS website at http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Plug-In-Electric-Vehicle-Credit-(IRC-30-and-IRC-30D)

 

Even with all that information, I may still be wrong. I will find out when my taxes are prepared next year.  If this is a deal breaker for you, please check with FMC and your tax preparer. 

 

UPDATE - Plus 3 Golfer provided the information from the IRS form that only the Lessor can claim the credit.  This would be FMC.

 

My reference to a job well done for Ford was actually not in reference to the deal or the rebate.  The job well done was to the changes in the car itself, from the 2013 to the 2014. Are they major changes, no.  They are minor details that have been discussed on this board several times  Even if it turns out that the rebate information is completely false, I still like the deal and the changes.  With the all the other rebates and incentives, it made it the right time and right deal for me.

 

I posted this information to help those who may be looking into getting a "good" deal on a C-Max right now.  I also thought some might be interested in some of the changes and the possibility that this forum is actually making a difference. 

 

Thanks to all the helpful posts over the last couple of years!

Edited June 29, 2014 by FoutsNC

[Smiling Jack]

After almost 2 years of loving our 2013 C-Max Hybrid, the lease was coming to an end and we needed to check out our options.  We had actually found a 2013 Energi on a lot and thought we might be able to really get a good deal on this one.  After much negotiation and a couple of overnight trips, we chose to get the 2014 for a few reasons.  The rebates on the 2014 Energi actually make it a bit cheaper than the Hybrid right now.  Oddly enough, the 2014 had a better total incentive for us than the 2013.  The dealer was willing to make the 2013 a little cheaper, yet they couldn't overcome the difference in CAP cost (residual for leases) between the 2 for us.  We received $5757 in Ford rebates (lease) and another $500 for lease end incentives.  The local Ford dealer also picked up our last payments for the 2013 for us.  With the $4000 Federal Tax Rebate (NOTE - If it's available. I am not an accountant, FMC employee, or IRS expert), that's well over $10,000 in savings!  I also have the X-Plan for some additional savings.

 

The differences between the 2013 are minimal, yet they do make a much bigger difference than I first thought. I think Ford is really listening to what this forum has to say!  First, the chrome trim around the door pulls and side vents are gone!  This caused a bit of a glare in the 2013 that could be troublesome in the sunlight.  They added a tray to the cavernous console to help make better use of the area.  A pocket was also added to the side of the passenger seat for small documents, a phone, or similar type items.  A mesh pocket was also added to the side of the console in the passenger area that's perfect for holding a phone.  The steering feels tighter and the overall pep seems to be much better in EV (These may be due to a newer car feel?).  I have also noticed that the A/C compressor is almost unnoticable in comparison to the 2013.  The A/C on the 2013 was honestly embarrasing to me at times when the car itself was so quiet.  It's been almost 100 degrees here over the last couple of days, and it's been great to have that quiet A/C running :)  I am also averaging much better numbers in hybrid only mode than I was expecting.  We will see how it goes in the long run for us.

 

I think the other differences have been hashed over several times.  These are the things I have noticed so far that I can think of.  I loved our 2013 C-Max Hybrid and bought a 2014 because of how much I enjoyed it.  I didn't expect the rebates to make the Energi cheaper for us, and I really didn't expect all the nice small touches!

 

Job well done Ford!

 

Fouts:

 

Thanks for the post !!

 

Someone posted a thread asking whether anyone had traded a C-max Hybrid in on a C-max Energi. You might want to add to that thread.  i traded a Brand X Hybrid in on the C-max Energi and some members here traded Escape Hybrids in on them, and at least one of our members added a C-max Energi to an already owned C-max Hybrid, but you are the first I have seen to make the C-max Hybrid to C-max energi trade; so I think your experience and thoughts would be of great interest.

 

Re. the extra "pep" in EV:  That is probably not a model year difference.  It is probably an Energi vs. Hybrid difference.  The Energi  batteries are capable of delivering abour 30 HP more to the electric motor.  This is a much overlooked benefit of the Energi over the Hybrid.

 

Re. The disappearance of the chrome on the A/C vent besels, etc.  Thanks for mentioning that!!!!!!!!!!!!! .  I have mine covered with black pin striping. I may look into repalcing the parts on my 2013 with those for the 2014.

 

Re. the a/C noise disappearance:  My guess is that this is just the active noise compensation doing its job.

 

Re. the real world mpg:  Energi drivers here have - as I'm sure you have read - have most often posted real world numbers comparable to the Hybrid and often better than the window sticker numbers.  Although there is a weight difference and possibly a different rear end ratio and possibly some programming differences favoring the Hybrid, but on the other hand the larger battery pack should let the hybrid mode operation work better in the Energi.  I have often thought that these would be pretty small effects and somewhat compensating; so that fundamentally we could expect similar real world numbers between the Energi and the Hybrid.

 

And, after all, what is 1 or 2 mpg difference in Hybrid mode compared to the whopping savings in fuel cost from plugged in EV range?

 

My thinking on this is that once you have driven 20 mileas or so in EV mode you have saved enough fule cost vs, the Hybrid that it would take a couple hundred miles of driving in Hybrid mode at 2 mpg difference (out of 40 mpg or so) to eat up that savings.  And very few energi drivers will do 200 miles of Hybrid operation for every 20 EV miles driven on a plugged-in charge.

[FoutsNC]

Fouts:

 

Thanks for the post !!

 

Someone posted a thread asking whether anyone had traded a C-max Hybrid in on a C-max Energi. You might want to add to that thread.  i traded a Brand X Hybrid in on the C-max Energi and some members here traded Escape Hybrids in on them, and at least one of our members added a C-max Energi to an already owned C-max Hybrid, but you are the first I have seen to make the C-max Hybrid to C-max energi trade; so I think your experience and thoughts would be of great interest.

 

Re. the extra "pep" in EV:  That is probably not a model year difference.  It is probably an Energi vs. Hybrid difference.  The Energi  batteries are capable of delivering abour 30 HP more to the electric motor.  This is a much overlooked benefit of the Energi over the Hybrid.

 

Re. The disappearance of the chrome on the A/C vent besels, etc.  Thanks for mentioning that!!!!!!!!!!!!! .  I have mine covered with black pin striping. I may look into repalcing the parts on my 2013 with those for the 2014.

 

Re. the a/C noise disappearance:  My guess is that this is just the active noise compensation doing its job.

 

Re. the real world mpg:  Energi drivers here have - as I'm sure you have read - have most often posted real world numbers comparable to the Hybrid and often better than the window sticker numbers.  Although there is a weight difference and possibly a different rear end ratio and possibly some programming differences favoring the Hybrid, but on the other hand the larger battery pack should let the hybrid mode operation work better in the Energi.  I have often thought that these would be pretty small effects and somewhat compensating; so that fundamentally we could expect similar real world numbers between the Energi and the Hybrid.

 

And, after all, what is 1 or 2 mpg difference in Hybrid mode compared to the whopping savings in fuel cost from plugged in EV range?

 

My thinking on this is that once you have driven 20 mileas or so in EV mode you have saved enough fule cost vs, the Hybrid that it would take a couple hundred miles of driving in Hybrid mode at 2 mpg difference (out of 40 mpg or so) to eat up that savings.  And very few energi drivers will do 200 miles of Hybrid operation for every 20 EV miles driven on a plugged-in charge.

 

Thanks for the post.  I am glad you found it helpful.

 

I did not know about the HP difference in Hybrid Only mode.  It does make perfect sense though.  It's surely nice to have :)

 

The A/C noise difference, for me, is actually very noticible to me from outside the vehicle.  I still have the 2013 and just started them up side by side to check. They were both sitting in the same amount of sun and the interiors should have been about the same.  I turned them both to Max A/C and the 2014 is much quieter.  Now that I think about it though, the 2013 might have something wrong with it.  If they didn't change the compressors (not sure), then it shouldn't be that much quieter.  If I drop by Ford with it before lease end, I might have them check it out.

 

I think you are very correct about the MPG differences.  The seals and rear changes "might" make a little difference as well. 

 

My commute to work is 9.8 miles.  The 20 or so miles per charge should work perfectly for my situation. Since our electric is pretty cheap (10c per KWH), this should save me between $40 and $50 per month over the 2013 Hybrid.

 

I am looking forward to another great C-Max experience :)

[plus 3 golfer]

This is what the IRS says on EV Federal Tax credit:

 

The following requirements must also be met to qualify for the credit.

• You are the owner of the vehicle. If the vehicle is leased, only the lessor, and not the lessee, is entitled to the credit.

The credit is only available to the owner.  This is the same issue I had with the Ford website and the incentives on the Ford Focus Electric and not knowing what RCL (Red Carpet Lease) meant.  Even the salesman indicated over the phone that I would get the $7500 FTC AND the $11,000 RCL incentive on the Electric.   If you leased and the finance guy told you that you would get the $4000 FTC, he lied or you misunderstood.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Plus 3 Golfer

[FoutsNC]

 

This is what the IRS says on EV Federal Tax credit:

 

The following requirements must also be met to qualify for the credit.

• You are the owner of the vehicle. If the vehicle is leased, only the lessor, and not the lessee, is entitled to the credit.

 

 

Thanks for the information Plus 3 Golfer.  After reading that line on the IRS form, it does look I was misinformed by several people and the primary page from the IRS about the rebate.  I am still good with my deal at this point, yet I will pass the info along to my dealership.

[62Lincoln]

Great post OP, thank you for sharing your impressions of the 2014. 

[salsaguy]

Fouts, does your driving style, (city vs mixed city and highway) match more for the plugin or did it match the hybrid more? I assume you don't lug around a lot of stuff like groceries or luggage to care of the major loss in space in the rear hatch  area??

 

So glad Ford didn't just copy over the last year's car and call it a 14 and that there ARE at least minor tweaks to make it better for the customer.

Enjoy your new CMax

 

After almost 2 years of loving our 2013 C-Max Hybrid, the lease was coming to an end and we needed to check out our options.  We had actually found a 2013 Energi on a lot and thought we might be able to really get a good deal on this one.  After much negotiation and a couple of overnight trips, we chose to get the 2014 for a few reasons.  The rebates on the 2014 Energi actually make it a bit cheaper than the Hybrid right now.  Oddly enough, the 2014 had a better total incentive for us than the 2013.  The dealer was willing to make the 2013 a little cheaper, yet they couldn't overcome the difference in CAP cost (residual for leases) between the 2 for us.  We received $5757 in Ford rebates (lease) and another $500 for lease end incentives.  The local Ford dealer also picked up our last payments for the 2013 for us

 

The differences between the 2013 are minimal, yet they do make a much bigger difference than I first thought. I think Ford is really listening to what this forum has to say!  

 

Job well done Ford!

Edited July 12, 2014 by salsaguy

[FoutsNC]

Fouts, does your driving style, (city vs mixed city and highway) match more for the plugin or did it match the hybrid more? I assume you don't lug around a lot of stuff like groceries or luggage to care of the major loss in space in the rear hatch  area??

 

So glad Ford didn't just copy over the last year's car and call it a 14 and that there ARE at least minor tweaks to make it better for the customer.

Enjoy your new CMax

 

Sorry for the delay in reply.  I have been away from the forum for a little bit.

 

My "style" does lend itself to the plug in quite a bit more than I had previously thought.  My commute is just over 10 miles each way.  So far, with A/C and everything running, I have been able to make it both ways without a drop of gas.  When I do run errrands and such, I am still averaging close to what the 2013 was in Hybrid mode.  I cannot 100% confirm this since I haven't filled up and it would be crazy difficult to truly compare with the battery miles in there anyways.

 

I would say that if the electric costs are not too high and your commute is not too crazy, the Energi can be a great option.  I really like the remote start, iPhone app, and Go Times too.

 

As for lugging around stuff, I really don't too much.  I have loaded up groceries a couple of times and havne't had an issue at all with it.  I also loaded up the dogs (Aussie and Golden) and took a trip around town with the wife.  It was about a 50 mile trip and we didn't have any issues.  For me, I don't feel like I am losing too much space to make that much difference.

 

For full disclosure, we also own a loaded F150.  We will be making a 2,000+ mile roundtrip soon to Maine and we will be taking the F150.  I think that trip may push it for cargo needs with the Energi for us.  It will cost at least $275 more in fuel, yet that's minor compared to any frustrations on that long of a trip.  If it were just myself, I would surely take the Energi.

[salsaguy]

Fouts, thanks for the honest reply.

Seems the Energi can cramp folks style a bit on the space with that hump when you do need to lug a lot more around. For some it's a deal breaker for sure esp if they don't have a 2nd car or larger car option (most likely they sold out for the better mpg cmax).

 

I agree I wish the cmax hybrid had the app available for them as that is very cool what you can do with it.

Yes it does seem your driving pattern is well suited for the energi.

Keep us updated on how it all goes.

Enjoy not using a drop of gas.

Mother earth also says thanks ;)

Edited July 16, 2014 by salsaguy