Common Sense MPG

[Kelleytoons]

So today I tried an interesting experiment.  I had to make a trip of around 25 miles, half city, half highway (highway speeds not more than 55mph).  Paul (ptjones) had set up my gauges so that I could more easily practice good driving techniques on Saturday and in those few days since I've been paying attention to them.

 

So driving the first way to my destination I *did* pay careful attention, attempting to use the acceleration the way he said, and paying attention to EV usage, etc.  It was a hot (92 degrees) day so I had the air as usual at 72.  I got 49.2 mpg on that first leg.

 

After shopping there for about an hour I got back into the car and drove back. This time, however, I changed the gauge back to where I had it before (where it just shows miles left on the tank) and paid zero attention to it.  I drove like I've always driven (at least since the late 70's, when I was taught how to drive correctly because of the gas rationing that was going on).  That driving includes accelerating as needed (and keeping up with traffic and not slowing anyone down but also not driving more than 5 mph over the limit).  In short, I had *fun* driving and not thinking about my mpg but also doing best practices not to waste gas.

 

The gauge showed 49.7 mpg when I reached home.  Now, I realize the gauges aren't that accurate, and certainly the difference between the two isn't significant, but it has demonstrated to my satisfaction that I don't need to do anything different in my driving that I've always done to get good mpg from the C-Max.  In my Durango I got around 14 mpg with the same route, so I'm getting at least 3x the mileage which is fine with me.

 

Perhaps in the winter here in Florida, with no heat needed but no A/C either, I may get over 50 mpg routinely, but my conclusion is I'm no longer going to "worry" or monitor my usage.  I drive as I drive, and at my (old) age I'm not likely to change how I do almost anything, especially something I've been doing for more than half a century (well, not *quite* half a century, but close :>).

 

I love my C-Max <g>.

[Adrian_L]

That mirrors my experiences.  I drive like a 96-year-old and I get 47 mpg.  Then the next day I'm late for work, drive more aggressively and forget about P/G.  I get 47 mpg.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Adrian_L

[C-MaxSea]

And thus the beauty of the C-Max:  driven with simple, 'good' driving habits, it rewards you with great MPG's; , driven with 'bad' (say aggressive) driving habits and it rewards you with great fun.  Either way rewarding, either way our choice.

 

Indeed, for many of us, 'good' driving habits are second nature;  unfortunately for many 'good' driving habits elude them, and 'retraining' is necessary for getting the best MPGs.  Fortunately, most of the efficiency benefit of the system is 'built in' and rewards regardless of the driving style.

 

Nick

 

(all subject to weather, terrain, trip length ........................  ;))

Edited August 7, 2014 by C-MaxSea

[kostby]

And thus the beauty of the C-Max:  driven with simple, 'good' driving habits, it rewards you with great MPG's; , driven with 'bad' (say aggressive) driving habits and it rewards you with great fun...

 

...unfortunately for many 'good' driving habits elude them, and 'retraining' is necessary for getting the best MPGs. 

 

So true!

 

And from this info we COULD conclude that the CU test drivers were just a pack of "old dogs" with bad, aggressive driving habits, completely incapable of learning any "new tricks" to achieve more than 37mpg when test-driving a 2013 C-MAX.

[fotomoto]

My wife sticks to the speed limits or maybe 5 over but she is a digital driver (gas and brake pedals are either on or off).   :shift:  You don't dare drink or hold a cup of hot coffee if you're a passenger!   :gaah:  She consistently gets horrible mileage in any vehicle she drives but if you were to ask her to rate herself on driving efficiency she's probably give herself an A-........  :headspin:

Edited August 7, 2014 by fotomoto

[Jus-A-CMax]

Guys, guys, guys...there are times to be aggressive and times not. Too long of a slow burn will hurt you, deliberately keeping a super high SOC with 1 bar burn in city will hurt you, climb up a 45* 5 mile grade at 65 mph will hurt you.

 

A good aggressive action is when you have a high SOC (say you built this naturally), use it to accelerate to 5mph above the limit and let it coast, and kick in minimal EV. The acceleration will pull charge off the battery and save you gas and then glide down. Remember, once gas is burnt, its burnt but if you can leverage some battery in there to help with the acceleration, use it.

 

Understand this and become CMax wise :skateboard:

Edited August 7, 2014 by Jus-A-CMax

[mtcmax]

So is being in EV long term with a high SOC just wasting FE potential? And doesn't the computer pick up on this? This is my next learning curve and have been reading the threads. Would just like to know if my inference is heading in the right direction.

[hybridbear]

The gauge showed 49.7 mpg when I reached home.  Now, I realize the gauges aren't that accurate, and certainly the difference between the two isn't significant, but it has demonstrated to my satisfaction that I don't need to do anything different in my driving that I've always done to get good mpg from the C-Max.

I disagree. Your trips were not equal. For one thing, the return trip started with a warm ICE. Second, the trips were in opposite directions so you aren't accounting for elevation changes or wind. Third, it's very likely that the two trips didn't start/end with the same SOC. If you don't adjust your MPG calculations to account for this difference then it isn't an accurate comparison.

[Kelleytoons]

Well, the trips are in Florida, so no elevation changes <bg>.

 

And wind?  Um, maybe, and a stickler might even say different temps and different traffic (the latter is probably the only thing that really could be true and make a difference).  But I also know that both trips were long enough to average out a whole lot of those factors.  Plus, while I only have 1K worth of miles on this vehicle so far my averages have been so consistent in this regard I can predict within a decimal of what the gauge will show when I stop the car.  Only rarely (on short trips of less than 3 miles) have I been surprised, and on those trips I chalk it up to either cold engine and/or built up battery that I get to use.  IOW, in all the times that *I* drive the car I average around 49 mpg no matter *what* I'm doing.

 

My wife is a whole different animal (and I mean that in a good way :>).  As with Doug's wife, she just doesn't "get it" and all efforts to teach her different have ended in disaster.  She drives fast up to the (red) light and puts on the brakes.  She accelerates and I get pushed back into my seat like I'm in the space shuttle.  And, just like Doug's, she insists she is the best driver in the world (she taught others how to drive for a living for a while, so she's an "expert").  Every time she gets in our mileage averages plummet.    To put it another way, we have 42.5 mpg lifetime so far and I've put the majority of the miles on the car at 49+, so the rest of you can do the math. 

[fbov]

My $0.02...

 

Learning to drive a C-Max is like learning to play a musical instrument. Anyone can hit the keys on a piano in the correct order, at the correct time, but only some players can make a piano sing. I am reminded of a M*A*S*H episode where David Ogden Stiers' character, a classical music afficienado, has a patient who is a pianist, who has lost their right hand. He finds piano pieces written for the left hand, in hopes that the pianist will not abandon a gift that this character would dearly love to possess, but doesn't. Wow, this was easy to find.

Don't you see? Your hand may be stilled, but your gift cannot be silenced if you refuse to let it be. The gift does not lie in your hands. I have hands, David. Hands that can make a scalpel sing. More than anything in my life I wanted to play, but I do not have the gift. I can play the notes, but I cannot make the music. You have performed Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Chopin. Even if you never do so again, you've already known a joy that I will never know as long as I live. Because the true gift is in your head and in your heart and in your soul. Now you can shut it off forever, or you can find new ways to share your gift with the world - through the baton, the classroom, or the pen. As to these works, they're for you, because you and the piano will always be as one.

 

Now, I'm not equating this to driving a car, but there's a lot to be said for the synergy that develops with time, that learning is only the first step if one is willing to practice and practice... I'm getting markedly better mileage than a year ago, even though I gave myself a month to come up the hybrid learning curve. Tomorrow is my first anniversary of ownership, and I'm just starting to really know how to drive this car.

 

And my wife's the same as you all describe... makes you appreciate our few female forum posters even more!

 

Have fun,

Frank

[fotomoto]

 but there's a lot to be said for the synergy that develops with time, that learning is only the first step if one is willing to practice and practice...

 

You know you're becoming a skilled hybrid driver with new, ingrained muscle memories when you consciously think to yourself after a pulse, "Oh, I need to get into a glide" and look down at the gauges and see you're all ready gliding.    :shift:

[ptjones]

kelleytoons "And wind?  Um, maybe, and a stickler might even say different temps and different traffic (the latter is probably the only thing that really could be true and make a difference)"

 

SOC at the beginning and end of a 12.5mile can also make a big difference in MPG's. If you really want to be scientific you need to take a pic at the start of your gauges( Display and trip) and at the end of each segment to see what is really going on. I wish I had the time to work with you when I was there, Maybe next time. That being said it seems you are doing a better job than most and you need to get signed up on Fuelly.com to keep track of your mileage and help to bring up the overall average for CMAX's. LOL  Good Job! :happy feet:

 

Paul

[C-MaxSea]

And then there is Jus, and Matt, and ........................... the third dimension, the next tier - the 100%ers.  Yes it is necessary to differentiate (am I correct ???).  We mere mortals with 'good driving habits' can do very, very well hugging the 47 to 53 zone - thank you very much.  I think Jus is talking about the next level - intricate, but second nature to him, management of the hybrid system such that 54 - 70 numbers pop like, well ......... popcorn from the dash.  Some of us may reach for that level and achieve it, some may just ECO cruise to 47 MPG glory and be satisfied at the 80-90% level..

 

Nick

 

(Starship GG ((Gray Grouper)) is a Stealth Fighter, but driven by me, but a moon buggie  :flyaway: ;

now Maxine, driven by a hybrid master, well, she's the real deal, a Tardis sort of lady  :superhero:  :twister: :superhero: )

Edited August 7, 2014 by C-MaxSea

[Jus-A-CMax]

So is being in EV long term with a high SOC just wasting FE potential? And doesn't the computer pick up on this? This is my next learning curve and have been reading the threads. Would just like to know if my inference is heading in the right direction.

 

Depends on where you driving. Trying to build a high SOC in city is a waste of gas as there are other :airquote: natural factors that will contribute to the SOC build such as traffic lights, braking for traffic etc. Your "EV bang of the buck" is much higher in city where the low speed 30mph-40mph means you can use less EV to keep the car in motion longer at those speed (versus trying to have EV keep the CMax in motion at 67mph).

 

On freeway, keeping & building a high SOC makes better sense as this is where the computer would be used in the eco-cruise and will kick in some EV to propel the car in that cruise mode and you can run up to 40MPG to 43MPG on a flat road. This was  formerly known as high ice mpg prior to 13b07 (where EV was capped below 63mph) but there is a weaker form of that mode post 13b07 where EV goes to 85mph.

 

If you don't get it straight away, then do not fret, it takes time to understand the CMax and how to best use the EV and SOC management  :victory:

 

ps the ultimate hypermiling technique is pulse & glide on the freeway to max your MPG but all I will say is: BE PREPARED TO WORK but I can guarantee you, you won't be bored like the drone gas drivers. 

Edited August 7, 2014 by Jus-A-CMax

[Kelleytoons]

Paul,

 

Any time you want to get together just let me know.  I know I'll never be in the same class as you, but it's always nice to see how the master does.

 

Today, "punching it" to get to my tennis date, I only got 39 mpg (but it was only a 3 mile trip so I'm not sure that most of that wasn't just in warming up).  I had fun pulling out VERY fast in front of traffic on our highway (front of our development) though -- try doing THAT in a Prius (actually, I *did* try it once and very nearly got run over by oncoming traffic.  Prius is a wet noodle when it comes to acceleration).

 

I suspect I'll keep playing around with things from time to time but at the moment I'm just happy getting 3x what I used to get in our silver whale.

[C-MaxSea]

Clarification:  I just wanted to say that I do agree with you two as well, Kelley & Adrian.  I think what you/we here in the MPG department have all discovered very early on, that getting good gas mileage is easier than we thought it would be.  By a combination of 'good driving habits', fair weather, and judicious speed, we can do 45+ with 'one hand tied behind our back'.  My post #3 above may have missed the mark.  When I say good driving habits I do not mean slow (or at least not grandpa slow); and I should have said overly aggressive, for 'bad' driving habits, resulting in the fun only reward (& lower MPG's).

 

I think the fact that we have had 5 or more folks recently blasting through the 600 mile tank mark in one of their first few tanks highlights that - great fair weather MPG's are available to all practically from day one !!!  My hat is way off to Wnuk, Snakebitten, Kostby, Rjdeeme29, Shinytop and others who have recently demonstrated how intuitive, rewarding and INSANEly good our C-Max is in the MPG game.  :hat_tip:

 

Thanks Kelleytoons for associating great gas mileage with 'common sense' driving.  Indeed it is !

 

Nick

 

PS  Anyone 'see' Adair around lately, time to update the 600 mile tank club,

Edited August 8, 2014 by C-MaxSea

[Wnuk]

This car keeps surprising me. We did a 640 mile round trip up to Niagara Falls. Mostly freeway speeds (67 MPH), fully loaded with luggage, the wife, and two kids. AC on ALL the time to please the Mrs.! 

 

Computer showed 45.6 MPG for the round trip.  :love_shower:

 

Now if I can just get it back to the dealer to fix the liftgate issue. I like it so much I don't want them to have even for a day!

[snakebitten]

Fantastic thread!

Some really great folks around here.

My stereotype of hybrid drivers was way off the mark. LOL

(Of course, I never thought I would be one)

Love getting old. Age is the ultimate myth buster.

[Kelleytoons]

My stereotype of hybrid drivers was way off the mark. LOL

(Of course, I never thought I would be one)

 

I'm curious -- just what *was* your stereotype?

 

Because... we have two couples we are friends with, and one couple to me fits the stereotype (at least the one *I* have in my head).  They are "eco-friendly" folks who are horrified that we don't recycle (which is a long story in and of itself) and are snobbish that they are that they drive these two Prius models (they are friends with our other Prius owner friends solely because those folks also own a Prius -- they have literally nothing else in common with them and when they get together that's all they talk about).  The other couple is as down to earth as you can imagine and their other vehicle is a van (which obviously doesn't get great gas mileage but is one they drive often).  

 

I, too, never thought I'd own a hybrid.  When we went out to buy a new vehicle, because our Durango has gotten unreliable for anything other than short trips, I was thinking small SUV.  I did have the Ford Focus Hybrid on my list just to look at (and curiously enough, never even test drove it).  I was pretty sure we'd end up with either the Buick Encore or the Ford Escape (interesting how both small SUVs start with an "E") but our terrific Ford salesman convinced me to try the C-Max and we were hooked.

 

Looking back now I think I see why -- I took a tennis buddy for a long trip to a match and afterwards he said he absolutely wants one (and is going to my dealer to talk with my salesguy).  I think the ride impresses a lot of folks.  If the C-Max had been a "normal" vehicle I might still have bought it -- the ride and features are that good.  Great mpg is icing on the cake.

[RockwallRick]

I have never been a "Prius Person" and I pretty much had to be dragged in kicking and screaming to go "Hybrid Hunting"!  I was sick of the high gas prices and having to pay for Premium Gas for my Wife's high performance car. I would love to go

all electric and not have to buy gas at all but there isn't an electric vehicle out there yet that would meet our needs at an affordable price!  Maybe Tesla will have the answer when their Model 3 comes out in 2017??

[Adrian_L]

I have never been a "Prius Person" and I pretty much had to be dragged in kicking and screaming to go "Hybrid Hunting"!  I was sick of the high gas prices and having to pay for Premium Gas for my Wife's high performance car. I would love to go

all electric and not have to buy gas at all but there isn't an electric vehicle out there yet that would meet our needs at an affordable price!  Maybe Tesla will have the answer when their Model 3 comes out in 2017??

 

Exactly my experience.  Really wanted an all-electric but even a 140 mile drive to Seattle would have been a problem.  If they come out with an Energi with a big trunk and a 50 mile elecric range--I'm first in line. 

[SnowStorm]

Exactly my experience.  Really wanted an all-electric but even a 140 mile drive to Seattle would have been a problem.  If they come out with an Energi with a big trunk and a 50 mile elecric range--I'm first in line. 

1st in line?  Better get up early or you'll be 2nd!  Come on Ford - repackage the batteries!  Look at what Mercedes is doing in the B-Class Electric.

 

Ditto on wanting all electric.  I think the real key will be fast charging, conveniently located next to restrooms and food.  Take a break every two hours for 20 minutes and you can drive forever. 

[C-MaxSea]

Ode to C-Max MPGs

If Cowboys & Cookie Monsters can ECO to 50,
And Appraisers & Astronomers 'Touch the Sky',

Then surely the lot of us, with a wee bit of ‘feather’,
Can take the next step and make apple (40+) pie.

Apple pie ??? So very, very sorry for that, had a good start and landed on my nose. Thought I might find my way to 40,  but “touch the Sky” (60 MPGs) killed me.

Sorry, so very, very sorry, back to the writing board,

Nick 

 

(Yes, just a wee bit of 'feather' & ECO cruise will get you to MPG glory: 40-50 !)

Edited August 22, 2014 by C-MaxSea

[banditb17]

I am currently logging my daily 25 mile commute. Will post data sometime in the future when I transfer it from paper to spreadsheet.

 

I notice an average decrease of about 3 or 4 MPG on my return trip vs my morning trip. I am thinking it is a combination of bad traffic and elevation.

 

There is also a 3 tenths of a mile difference between the morning and afternoon commutes every single time.

[Jus-A-CMax]

Ode to C-Max MPGs

If Cowboys & Cookie Monsters can ECO to 50,

And Appraisers & Astronomers 'Touch the Sky',

Then surely the lot of us, with a wee bit of ‘feather’,

Can take the next step and make apple (40+) pie.

 

Apple pie ??? So very, very sorry for that, had a good start and landed on my nose. Thought I might find my way to 40+ but “touch the Sky” (60 MPGs) killed me.

Sorry, so very, very sorry, back to the writing board,

Nick 

 

(Yes, yust a vee bit of 'feather' & ECO cruise vill get you to MPG glory: 40-50 !)

 

 

:gold_star: Genius in the making...me like  :thumbsup: