End of the C-Max near?

[Kelleytoons]

Um, no, 9 mpg is all the difference (not much more than what the adjustments were made between what they first reported for our C-Max and now).  Again, it was a HUGE car, twice the size of the Escape (road weight I believe was 6000 lbs) with a V-8 engine (you could get better mileage with smaller engines).

 

Or to put it another way, at the gas prices then it was less than a few hundred dollars difference each year (of course, it would be greater now but we were talking about THAT Escape versus a Durango back then).  I'm not saying the Escape wasn't a nice car -- I have no idea -- but it certainly wasn't that great in terms of mileage and particularly measured against any load standard you want to apply (passengers, cargo, whatever).

[mtb9153]

2018 is still someways away, who knows what state of the world would be..so I am not concerned. Anyway, that might suit me nicely to finally replace Maxine if we are all still alive & kicking. She'll still be clocking way over the original EPA 47 MPG anyway  ;)

 

ps who knows by that time, Ford should have a :banghead:  moronConsumer Report :airquote: professional driver proof > 38 MPG hybrid that can drive around their piddly track   :stirpot:

Brother Jus my feelings too.  The way the world is going we might be at war with Russia or there could be a huge global extinction by 2018 from nukes.  Don't put it past Putin, the man wants to dominate the world.  Even it if it all glows in the dark from nukes.

[hybridbear]

Um, no, 9 mpg is all the difference (not much more than what the adjustments were made between what they first reported for our C-Max and now).  Again, it was a HUGE car, twice the size of the Escape (road weight I believe was 6000 lbs) with a V-8 engine (you could get better mileage with smaller engines).

 

Or to put it another way, at the gas prices then it was less than a few hundred dollars difference each year (of course, it would be greater now but we were talking about THAT Escape versus a Durango back then).  I'm not saying the Escape wasn't a nice car -- I have no idea -- but it certainly wasn't that great in terms of mileage and particularly measured against any load standard you want to apply (passengers, cargo, whatever).

The 9 MPG difference of 29 versus 20 is a much greater decrease in fuel consumption that 47 vs 39 relating to the C-Max. Check out this article for more info: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1019426_miles-per-gallon-is-just-stupid-no-really-it-is

[HotPotato]

Ford took risks in developing the North American C-MAX as a Hybrid, instead of importing proven (German) diesel and Eco-boost engines and DSG transmissions easily capable of delivering 40 to 60 mpg or more. That's the problem with sharing 'world cars': Not every world market has the same transportation priorities.

 

I'd guess that manufacturing and the supply chain were probably targeting initial sales of 5,000 C-MAX's a month (and they actually approached that combined number ONCE, in November, 2012, likely due to early fleet orders). Who knows what the first-year sales target was? 50,000, 75,000, maybe 100,000?

 

In July 2014, two years after introduction, Ford has sold just under 65,000 (50,000 C-MAX Hybrids and 15,000 C-MAX Energis) and has yet to achieve consistent combined sales of 3,000 a month.

 

Meanwhile, the Ford Escape continues to sell in excess of 25,000 per month, despite differences in fuel economy and similarity in price. Escape outsells every single North American Ford vehicle EXCEPT the F-150.

 

And the North American C-MAX remains a niche product, selling just a bit faster than best selling Lincoln model, the MKZ.

 

Is it any wonder that a new Escape Hybrid is in the works for 2019?

 

July 2014 Ford and Lincoln US Sales stats here.

 

Switching to the Escape form factor for more sales: plausible.

 

Getting over 40-60 MPG simply by using a Euro drivetrain instead of hybrid: implausible. Published European fuel consumption figures are bunk: the Euro fuel economy test is notoriously unrepresentative of real-world mileage, is routinely gamed by manufacturers, and has become so scandalous and embarrassing that the EU is looking into throwing out the test cycle and rules and starting over. Nor would American traffic conditions suit a gas 1-liter 3-cylinder engine powering a car with the weight of a small Cadillac. Nor are most Americans interested in driving a diesel with a stickshift, and even diesel-crazed Europe is slowly beginning to transition to hybrids as the health effects of diesel pollution grow more severe. Nor is a DSG likely to provide better fuel economy than an eCVT, which has "infinitely" variable gearing.

 

Point is, Ford gave us the right drivetrain; customers just prefer it in a Fusion body (and why not? the Fusion is dead sexy), and given how well the Escape sells, they'd probably prefer it in an Escape body too.

[BIG ROCCO]

I commented recently to my wife that the cargo capacity of the C-Max is deceiving - deceivingly small under the cargo cover.  You do gain a little by folding it up or removing it, or a lot more by folding down the seats.  Our lifetime average is 45+ MPG - I would not mind getting a little less (>40 MPG?) in a larger version of the C-Max...which I think is pretty close to what the Escape is.

 

The C-Max is actually the wife's car - I drive a 2012 Buick Lacrosse - it is a mild hybrid.  It is a larger and more luxurious, quieter, smoother riding vehicle than the C-Max, but it get's only 35+ MPG.  When we drove from Phoenix to San Diego (1,000 miles total round trip) for the weekend a couple months ago, we took the Buick...sure we squandered a few extra dollars on gas, but I think it is a better lengthy road trip car.  For around town driving, the C-Max can't be beat.  And for driving up to our weekend place in the AZ mountains, the C-Max is better on the curvy roads and has more _alls going up the long steep grades.  Also, with the CVT, the transmission does not hunt like the Buick.

[Wnuk]

Interestingly, Ford ran a commercial here in PA today that mentioned the CMAX and it's great fuel mileage. Did anyone else happen to see it elsewhere?

[Tree63]

I commented recently to my wife that the cargo capacity of the C-Max is deceiving - deceivingly small under the cargo cover.  You do gain a little by folding it up or removing it, or a lot more by folding down the seats.  Our lifetime average is 45+ MPG - I would not mind getting a little less (>40 MPG?) in a larger version of the C-Max...which I think is pretty close to what the Escape is.

 

The C-Max is actually the wife's car - I drive a 2012 Buick Lacrosse - it is a mild hybrid.  It is a larger and more luxurious, quieter, smoother riding vehicle than the C-Max, but it get's only 35+ MPG.  When we drove from Phoenix to San Diego (1,000 miles total round trip) for the weekend a couple months ago, we took the Buick...sure we squandered a few extra dollars on gas, but I think it is a better lengthy road trip car.  For around town driving, the C-Max can't be beat.  And for driving up to our weekend place in the AZ mountains, the C-Max is better on the curvy roads and has more _alls going up the long steep grades.  Also, with the CVT, the transmission does not hunt like the Buick.

 

C-Max works for what I need - head and stretch room for 6+ footer, room for 2 sets of golf clubs and a greener driving experience.  I've always thought buying one was an early investment into the right direction for personal transportation, not the final product.  EPA and Transport Canada numbers were not real world to begin with and most of the recalls have been more noise than substance to me. 

 

At least my kids (20-somethings) have seen you have to be prepared to put your money where your mouth (or rear) is, and wife thinks I am still a hero keeping her comfy, cosy every time we're on the road.  :)

 

Ford - bring on the next gen!!

[Jus-A-CMax]

Great input Tree63, fellow golfer I see as well  :)  &  :rockon:

[Wnuk]

Seems as though CMAX sales have stabilized after all the EPA kerfluffle....

 

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/automobiles/people-like-fords-hybrids-for-more-than-just-their-fuel-economy.html/

[kostby]

Another way of seeing the same data without so many words…  ;)

 

6-month moving averages show the steep decline of C-MAX Hybrid sales (though Energi sales were actually increasing during that period) last year, and the trend heading back up beginning in February

 

 

EDIT: Isn't it interesting that article wnuk links above NEVER MENTIONS the word "batteries", nor a certain "CONSUMERS' ONION" WHICH SHALL NOT BE NAMED in the Series Of Unfortunate Events leading to the loss of ~1,000 sales per month that began last September. You'd think it was all strictly due to gas mileage ratings...

Edited September 7, 2014 by kostby

[Kelleytoons]

I'd kind of like to see what gas prices were doing during that chart period -- might be interesting.

[Laurel]

Our gas prices haven't bounced around too much in the last year.  $1.34 to $1.44 per liter--translated that is $5.36-5.76 per imperial gallon.  Prices go up to the $1.44 per liter every long weekend.

[Smiling Jack]

Our gas prices haven't bounced around too much in the last year.  $1.34 to $1.44 per liter--translated that is $5.36-5.76 per imperial gallon.  Prices go up to the $1.44 per liter every long weekend.

 

Is there somewhere where gas is still sold by the Imperial gallon?

 

I didn't think that any country still used the Imperial gallon.

[Laurel]

Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand and the other 49 Commonwealth countries in the world use the Imperial Gallon.  We are metric here in Canada as well. I think that the USA is the only industrialized country in the world not to use metric. The USA was mandated to change to metric back in the 1800's, but the cost of the conversion was deemed too expensive.  Also we measure distance traveled by car in kilometers and speed kilometers per hour.  So when we are home we pay $1.44 per liter for gas and we can travel 4 kilometers from our house with a speed limit of 60 kilometers per hour as we approach the border.  Then in Blaine, Washington(less than 2 miles from our house) the speed limit is 35 miles per hour, gas is about $3.80 a US gallon and it takes us 20 minutes to go 15 miles to get to Costco. We are pretty adept at converting to US speed limits and US gallons compared to our system.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Laurel

[jdbob]

Gas is sold by the liter in New Zealand, no doubt in Australia too.

[kostby]

Chart available from Gas Buddy

http://www.GasBuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx?city1=USA%20Average&city2=&city3=&crude=n&tme=24&units=us

 

EDIT: Sales and gas prices views together:

Edited September 7, 2014 by kostby

[Jus-A-CMax]

Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand and the other 49 Commonwealth countries in the world use the Imperial Gallon.  We are metric here in Canada as well. I think that the USA is the only industrialized country in the world not to use metric. The USA was mandated to change to metric back in the 1800's, but the cost of the conversion was deemed too expensive.  Also we measure distance traveled by car in kilometers and speed kilometers per hour.  So when we are home we pay $1.44 per liter for gas and we can travel 4 kilometers from our house with a speed limit of 60 kilometers per hour as we approach the border.  Then in Blaine, Washington(less than 2 miles from our house) the speed limit is 35 miles per hour, gas is about $3.80 a US gallon and it takes us 20 minutes to go 15 miles to get to Costco. We are pretty adept at converting to US speed limits and US gallons compared to our system.

 

tsk, tsk, tsk....you must be showing your age to remember the imperial gallon, stones. However, even NASA has modernised to use metric, except when they decide to launch a probe to March and the Engineer who designed it had one to many Australian Fosters at lunch..KA-BOOM ;) (or it was shot down by an orbiting Alien probe but they won't admit it :ninja: )

 

No, Aus is metric. Also, litre in the proper word in common English - except here in America where the e and r are switched... :dance:

[C-MaxSea]

Yes, indeedy, ours is only about 6 or 7' away.

Edited September 8, 2014 by C-MaxSea

[Laurel]

tsk, tsk, tsk....you must be showing your age to remember the imperial gallon, stones. However, even NASA has modernised to use metric, except when they decide to launch a probe to March and the Engineer who designed it had one to many Australian Fosters at lunch..KA-BOOM ;) (or it was shot down by an orbiting Alien probe but they won't admit it :ninja: )

 

No, Aus is metric. Also, litre in the proper word in common English - except here in America where the e and r are switched... :dance:

The whole metric issue can be head spinning.  We have liters on the gas pumps and litres in the newspaper.  Some people pronounce it kill -om-iter and some say kill -o-meter, some say shed-u-ule and others say sked -u-ule.  Some say they weigh 10 stones and other say they weigh 67 kilos and others say 155 lbs.  No wonder people get confused eh?

[Kelleytoons]

 

 

EDIT: Sales and gas prices views together:

 

 

Dare I say that I do notice a similar curve process to the rising of the gas prices and the rising of C-Max sales in the latter part of that chart?  I'd have to see them overlaid and, of course, there is a somewhat "delayed" response to such things, but I suspect there is some impetus and effect being displayed there.  (IOW, the falling of sales might be attributed to other things, but the rising might definitely be impacted by gas prices).

[Jus-A-CMax]

The whole metric issue can be head spinning.  We have liters on the gas pumps and litres in the newspaper.  Some people pronounce it kill -om-iter and some say kill -o-meter, some say shed-u-ule and others say sked -u-ule.  Some say they weigh 10 stones and other say they weigh 67 kilos and others say 155 lbs.  No wonder people get confused eh?

Telling me...I now live in the land of the liter and gallons...but I get use to it. In my faveroute sports, I am totally converted to yards. Metres, whats that? Oh, think in yard numbers and add 1 club. I :airquote: see said the Blind Man.... :)

[ScubaDadMiami]

Dare I say that I do notice a similar curve process to the rising of the gas prices and the rising of C-Max sales in the latter part of that chart?  I'd have to see them overlaid and, of course, there is a somewhat "delayed" response to such things, but I suspect there is some impetus and effect being displayed there.  (IOW, the falling of sales might be attributed to other things, but the rising might definitely be impacted by gas prices).

Happens all the time. Gas prices go up, and everyone starts running to fuel efficient cars. Gas prices go down, and everyone starts buying gas guzzlers.

[C-MaxSea]

Even if fuel prices are falling,

Feathers are Free !!! and they will reward you with forties & fifties forever !!!

Nick

(Keep on feathering, fellow forum flyers;  not a forum flyer, test drive a C-Max and find out what all this fine fun feathering is all about – Jus saying!)

((not to mention, Fangs come Free as well, with every forty feathers !))

Edited September 8, 2014 by C-MaxSea

[JohnnOhio]

I wonder if they are just not going to make hybrid c maxes and still sell them in Europe with gas and versions.