Profound Thoughts in My Hybrid

[Treptower]

 

*That's me in the video

Edited September 16, 2014 by Treptower

[Kelleytoons]

So I'm guessing this guy is a Prius driver -- because he's an idiot.

 

"It's beneficial to use the electricity sooner than later... because maybe you run into a stop sign, maybe you run into traffic... all of a sudden you're burning gas".

 

So his thought process is that you want to always use up all that electricity you have because you may have to stop and so it's better to run the ICE?   Either he or I do not understand the basics of hybrid driving (and if it's me, then someone needs to explain to me why stop and go traffic favors the hybrid in every case).

 

Perhaps his guy needed to spend his quiet time... BEING QUIET.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Kelleytoons

[vmmvmmm]

...except that he's obviously driving a C-Max...

[Kelleytoons]

Then I'm truly sorry for him (and after I posted I realized that it *might* have been the OP who did this, and for that I'm truly sorry.  I would never want to be so harsh for anyone who belongs here.  So perhaps let's just amend my comments to say I am confused about driving a hybrid if this guy is correct in his profound thoughts).

 

(Oh, and it's no excuse but I'm a grumpy old man whose picture to the left is NOT a drawing but an actual photograph).

Edited September 16, 2014 by Kelleytoons

[Treptower]

The debate about how best to use the electric battery doesn't just have a single answer. 

 

I've been using the Torque app (android) to study how the HF35 powertrain software operates. And what i've observed, after seeing the numbers, is that there is really 2 methods to achieve mpg's reliably between 43-47. 

 

Firstly you could have the battery charged up all the time and demand very little from the ICE. When you do this you're right, the engine will move the vehicle at 50 mph consuming 45-50mpg of fuel. Once you get  into the high 60's (mphs) the engine will consume 42-47 mpg (depending of incline and wind). So yeah you'll see good fuel economy numbers. But you also need to have a close eye that the vehicle doesn't slip into EV mode. And when you're traveling below 45mph it wants to be in EV a lot. (lets keep the 70+mph regime for another thread)

 

The second option is to intelligently use your stored electricity. While observing the torque app, it becomes clear that when charging from a low SOC until you get to the top SOC for that speed the mpgs range at a consumption rate between 25 mpg to 35 mpg. It's not until you've reach to top of your speed's SOC that the engine's load decrease and it starts sipping fuel at 40+ mpg. So if you spend a lot of time charging without using the electricity as soon as it's possible the average mpgs can be less than 40 unfortunately. But if you slip in and out of EV mode often you can get great fuel economy! 

 

Another great way to think about it is that if your traveling at 50 mph for 1 mi while charging you will be able to use electric for another mile. Again from observing the data, 50-55mph is about even for charge to discharge rates. This is where another great realization comes into play, if you're traveling for 1 mile at 25 mpg and then the engine stops but you continue to travel for another mile at infinite mpg the computer thinks you've used the same fuel to go twice the distance. This effectively returns 50 mpg average over the 2 miles. 

 

It's far easier to jump in and out of EV mode than it is to constantly keep the battery in it's max SOC. Couple that and the fact that if you're using EV mode there is less wear and tear on the engine, it makes a pretty strong case that using your electricity intelligently makes a good deal of sense.

 

The C-Max is great because you can use both methods to get 43-47 mpg (in reasonable weather). 

 

I think it's also important to note that the instantaneous fuel consumption gauge (the one in the arch) doesn't represent the consumption rate well. It looks non-linear, seeing actual numerical results is much easier to understand how the engine is working.

 

Thanks for watching my video!  :)

[MomsHugs]

I have found it very hard to max SOC at all & in/out of EV has returned higher MPG. But I'm still a newbie in hybrid school.  :noobie:

 

It's far easier to jump in and out of EV mode than it is to constantly keep the battery in it's max SOC. Couple that and the fact that if you're using EV mode there is less wear and tear on the engine, it makes a pretty strong case that using your electricity intelligently makes a good deal of sense.

 

The C-Max is great because you can use both methods to get 43-47 mpg (in reasonable weather). 

 

[Adrian_L]

Probably a good idea to indicate that you are the chap in the video, lest the members think it is a humorous "look what I found on the internet" type of video.

 

There's a few schools of thought on how to achieve good mpgs with the C-max.  I'm a huge fan of Eco cruise and letting the car do what Ford programmed it to do.  My days of scrutinizing the Empower screen are over--and besides, I get better (47 city) mileage when I keep my eyes on the road.

[C-MaxSea]

Mostly yes & a little no.  Letting the car select it's mode (the above argument) gets you say 80-90%+- efficiency - best for most drivers.  We prefer the middle ground, letting the car do it's thing selecting the mode, ECO Cruising ...................., but the car does not know the road ahead (presumably), which is where the driver can optimize - use up some EV for example, because an ICE load obligation / battery charge opportunity is approaching ................  (((There are reasons why Jus & many others get significantly better than the OP notes - it is all about appreciating PE & KE (potential energy & kinetic energy), and optimizing the car's potential - to get the 'icing on the cake' that is;  but not required to get the good numbers the OP suggests.)))

 

Nevertheless, generally agree, just my 2 cents (mostly highway/freeway bound),

 

Nick

Edited September 17, 2014 by C-MaxSea

[Treptower]

Probably a good idea to indicate that you are the chap in the video, lest the members think it is a humorous "look what I found on the internet" type of video.

 

There's a few schools of thought on how to achieve good mpgs with the C-max.  I'm a huge fan of Eco cruise and letting the car do what Ford programmed it to do.  My days of scrutinizing the Empower screen are over--and besides, I get better (47 city) mileage when I keep my eyes on the road.

 

Good call Adrian, I am the one in the video!

[Jus-A-CMax]

I think the vid is good for the new owners, or owners who have not driven hybrids before. Its hard for them to grasp what that battery is or does - let alone understand the battery, the torque and what are its weakness or power. So, great vid Treptower - a good start for new owners for sure :)

 

Now, as an intermediate driver of the CMax, to me and imho, its understated. I would follow it up with "how" to utilize the battery to maximize its usefullness in real life driving. I'll throw this out for you - if you have a SOC, use it to accelerate to a 3 bar burn, don't slow burn to charge. Also, starting from stop - use EV to start the car to 10mph, that is "average" acceleration even for speed freeks here in Los Angeles. The more EV you can go the better but I would cap it at 20mph and then use ICE to bring it up to 38. Lots of potential there for a great follow "clarification" of your thoughts..

 

Jus my 2c, now I will crawl back into my 38MPG machine. Its hard to get any good MPGs out of this car.... :runaway:

 

*llooong puff....*...is my cheque here yet...... :secret:  *smoke*

[vmmvmmm]

I have to be honest, the video made me chuckle.  I always get a kick out of someone proclaiming their own thoughts as profound.  It's kind of like going around telling everyone how humble you are - but there's a lot I don't get about how the youth that have grown up with social media see themselves and the importance of their own words and pictures.  Ask my kids, I roll my eyes and laugh at them quite a bit.  They all think that every moment of their life is critically important to share with everyone else.  I'm assuming one day they will realize the true significance they are to others and stop pretending everyone on earth is hanging on their every word and start living more in the real world.

 

Aside from that diatribe, I feel like there are probably some good points hidden in here somewhere that would be good to understand, but I feel like they aren't being explained clearly enough for me to know how to apply them.  The app you talk about and how it interacts with the car to tell you "what is really happening," is something that is interesting to me, for example.  I have an iPhone, so maybe there isn't a comparable app for me to use, but that would be something that I would be interested in fiddling with.  I feel like I've got a pretty good gut feel for how things work in the car and how to eke out the best MPG in most situations, as my average MPG is rarely below 47, but knowing more is always fun for me.

[Kelleytoons]

I think that was my first reaction as well (that and the obviously wrong thought that waiting at a stop sign would be a Good Thing to do with no EV).  I probably overreacted, but just as kids are more likely to think they have something important to say, so are old folks (and more prone to being grumpy).

 

That said... perhaps he was being ironic, or meant it to be funny.  Humor is a *very* difficult thing -- for some reason this reminded me of this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ldAQ6Rh5ZI

[Kelleytoons]

Actually, I take that back.  What I really meant was this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ax96iVmTCI

 

Jack Handey actually had a lot of these.  In their own way, equally profound.

[drdiesel1]

Actually, I take that back.  What I really meant was this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ax96iVmTCI

 

Jack Handey actually had a lot of these.  In their own way, equally profound.

SNL always had a JH skit :clapping: