I drove a Ford lately

[DaveloMA]

Went to the New England Auto Show Saturday and test drove the C-Max (an Energi). Liked it enough that I did it again at the end of the day. Still liked it. Have my eye on a couple of MY 14 SEs with the winter package (I'm a simple man; wait, I mean a man with simple tastes). love that the ICE stops when I do; and enjoyed the guilty pleasure I got when a leaf fell from the ivy under hard acceleration. Things that give me pause:

- no spare

- first hybrid/cvt, and I like to shift

- is the mpg all that?

- the saga of the dead battery

 

Still need to drive the Prius (V or other) and the TDI Sportwagen, but I'm edging closer to C-Max nation.

[fotomoto]

I highly recommend the SEL.  Your simple tastes will, umm, evolve. :wub2:   Better bang for the buck and much less issues with the dead battery syndrome.  Test drive a prius v, I dare ya'! (see my signature below)    :shift:

Edited January 19, 2015 by fotomoto

[ScubaDadMiami]

Still loving mine. I hear you about the spare tire thing. Oh, and the MPG thing is great, even when there is cheap gas.

Edited January 19, 2015 by ScubaDadMiami

[HPRifleman]

Are there any SE Energis? I thought they were all SELs.

[cmax-nynj]

Get a spare tire from the local scrap yard.  I have one strapped in my SE's trunk and still have decent trunk space left.   The compact jack from VW fits under the floor nicely.

 

I also didn't have any 12V battery failure since new or 8/2013.

 

Skip the MFT.  The stock stereo is adequate and probably easier to use.  

Edited January 19, 2015 by cmax-nynj

[fbov]

...Things that give me pause:

- no spare

- first hybrid/cvt, and I like to shift

- is the mpg all that?

- the saga of the dead battery

 

Still need to drive the ...TDI Sportwagen...

Based on my 22K miles...

 

No spare isn't a problem until you hole a tire. That kind of severe damage had been a rare thing over the ~40 years when I did carry a spare, but sure enough, I managed to hole the RF sidewall on the C-Max turning into a parking lot. That said, I still don't carry a spare, although I do watch for sharp curbs.

 

The biggest change for anyone used to a clutch is the CVT. Engine speed is no longer related to road speed in any sense, and there are no gears to shift. It took a while, but I now drive with an eye to running the engine at an efficient RPM, and focus on ways to store any excess energy, so engine load remains high and specific fuel consumption minimized.

 

If you play the "hybrid game," MPG is far more than "all that." The hybrid game is simply learning how to get the most distance out of your fuel, without becoming a pariah on the road. There's lots of info on the forum on how to play, and proof of what's possible in the high-miles-per-tank thread. When folks ask about mileage, I say: "Somewhere between 30 and 60, depending on outside temps and how you drive it."

 

SELs like mine have a far lower rate of 12v battery issues, and the root cause, to my understanding, is related to SE-unique configuration.

 

As to the TDi, consider a diesel if you do lots of long-distance, highway driving. What becomes obvious playing the hybrid game is that hybrids perform best at low speed and there's darn little you can do at high speed to improve mileage besides slow down. The opposite is true of a well-implemented diesel. My brother-in-law gets 45 mpg at 75, where my C-Max has a hard time breaking 40, but that's the best he ever gets. If you do a lot of highway driving, the TDi may be a better choice than a hybrid.

 

And Welcome!

 

Frank

[drdiesel1]

Are there any SE Energis? I thought they were all SELs.

 

Correct: All NRG's are SEL trim.

[drdiesel1]

I drive all city for work and really don't need to go on the freeways, so I purchased the Energi.

I don't use gas unless I leave town and that's rare. I also have my diesel pickup and prefer to

drive it when taking trips anywhere. For me the NRG was the best choice.

 

Frank covered it pretty well, but remember that diesel is a higher price fuel.

[ArizonaEnergi]

Frank covered it pretty well, but remember that diesel is a higher price fuel.

About 30% higher it looks like these days. So a 50 mpg diesel is really getting about 38 mpg when comparing to a regular gasoline car.

[scottwood2]

There are many SE owners that are happy with there purchase.  I do agree that the poll results show that the standard SE had more dead battery issues than the SEL.  If you are going to only look at the poll results than the SE with the MFT upgrade has less issues than the SEL.  There is a lot more to look at when it comes to this issue and the poll results. 

I could have purchased either one but choose the SE over the SEL as I wanted a more basic car and wanted to keep more $$ in my wallet.  I also did not like the leather seats so the SE was the only option for me. I did get the MFT upgrade and the winter package.  I do think there was something early on with the standard Sync system (small display) that could be part of the battery issue.  This is just from reading here on the forums.  I also think that a newer vehicle will give you a much better chance of not having this battery issue. 

I have had my SE for 5 months now and I would buy a SE again in a heartbeat.   Most people love to have a loaded up car.  I am in the minority to want less.  The standard features in the SE are options on many other cars.  To each his own.  That is why they make both models (at least in the non-plug in model)

[Bugblndr]

Still need to drive the Prius (V or other) and the TDI Sportwagen, but I'm edging closer to C-Max nation.

I was in the exact same boat as you looking at the same 3 vehicles.  I ordered my C-Max 11 days ago.  Good luck in whatever you choose!

[Adrian_L]

 

I have had my SE for 5 months now and I would buy a SE again in a heartbeat.   Most people love to have a loaded up car.  I am in the minority to want less.  The standard features in the SE are options on many other cars.  To each his own.  That is why they make both models (at least in the non-plug in model)

 

Fair enough, but it's important to point out that you get a ton of extras for not alot extra with the SEL.  To get leather, Nav, premium audio, camera etc. etc in  Prius would cost you a bomb.

 

You prefer cloth seats?  No more scrubbing coffee and doughnut filling out of upholstry cloth for me.

[C-MaxSea]

About 30% higher it looks like these days. So a 50 mpg diesel is really getting about 38 mpg when comparing to a regular gasoline car.

 

Exactly, you have to 'do the math' when comparing to diesels - and here, 45 mpg diesel becomes 35-38+- when comparing to our C-Max.

 

We are easily cruising at 60 in 60 zones, 65-68 in 70 zones and getting 45+ mpg on regular gas (weather permitting).

 

Eco-Cruising & optimizing PE/KE opportunities, (never hypermiling)

Nick

 

(Just Say No to ICE idling)

Edited January 19, 2015 by C-MaxSea

[scottwood2]

 

 

You prefer cloth seats?  No more scrubbing coffee and doughnut filling out of upholstry cloth for me.

I have always felt that way about leather seating.  Even in the house, I am just not comfortable sitting on leather especially in warmer weather.  My other half and I test drove a few SEL C-Max's in the summer trying to like the leather seats.  I tried but just felt hot sitting on them.  It does clean up well.    

Edited January 19, 2015 by scottwood2

[DaveloMA]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply -- it really is helpful. I wasn't clear mentioning models: I'm interested in the SE, but drove the Energi because that's what they had at the show. But I'm with Scott: less is more (give me cruise and heated seats -- any other doodads are just icing on the cake), and I much prefer cloth to leather (vinyl? No thank you.). Right now, most of my driving is my 18 mile commute on back roads, but that could change in the future to include some highway. In any case, I don't seem to fit the profile of some who would benefit from a diesel.

 

There is a lot to like about the C-Max -- solid build quality, handsome design, comfy and spacious interior, good driving characteristics, quiet, etc. Maybe my favorite thing is that the ICE shuts off at a stop. So sensible.

 

Thanks again, all. I'll keep you posted. But feel free to keep the comments coming.

Edited January 20, 2015 by DaveloMA

[drdiesel1]

With the NRG, you can drive without using the ICE to work. Plug it in at work and drive back without

using the ICE. I rarely use my ICE and have 4K miles on my 2014. I've added gas 3 times since July 3rd.

I just filled it up for the 3rd time last night because it's down to $2.23 a gallon.  You might consider the NRG

for your 18 mile back road trip. I love driving EV all the time. It's the best way to get around and the NRG

is best suited for your kind of use. If you're commute changes, the NRG will be the same as a hybrid after

the EV charge is used up. I currently average 80 MPG combined with mine :happy feet:

[RockwallRick]

To each his own, we prefer leather seats. I actually switched out the cloth seats in my Truck with leather, no regrets!! The C-Max is my Wife's car and she loves it! She is averaging 44 mpg which is excellent for her driving style! I am confident this car is capable of 50 mpg which was my target goal when we decided to buy a hybrid. No Prius for us!!!!! :rockon:

[markd]

For me it came down to the Mazda5 grand touring and the C-Max SEL. It wound up being the mpg and the level of options that caused me to buy the C-Max.

[Adrian_L]

I'm not sure if the "(vinyl? no thanks)" comment was directed at the C-max, but Ford does use real dead cows for its seats.

 

The Prius uses synthetic leather, aka pleather, in their seats.

[fotomoto]

I'm not sure if the "(vinyl? no thanks)" comment was directed at the C-max, but Ford does use real dead cows for its seats.

 

The Prius uses synthetic leather, aka pleather, in their seats.

 

As with nearly everything in life, there are exceptions to the rule.  My 2010 prius had "real" leather.  It was an (overpriced) port installed option by the regional distributor (gulf states toyota).  

 

That was my first car with leather.   Living here in the deep south, I was worried after reading so many opinions on how hot they get but I found that to be much to do about nothing.  In fact, every car we've purchased since then has had leather.    I greatly prefer it over cloth and won't go back.

[SnowStorm]

About 30% higher it looks like these days. So a 50 mpg diesel is really getting about 38 mpg when comparing to a regular gasoline car.

Here its like 60% more.  Combine that with an extra $0.40 per gallon to cover timing belt replacement and your 45 mpg "tanks" ( :lol:) to about 24 mpg!  Around town you'll be hard pressed to break 20 mpg "cost equivalent".  No thanks.  My wife and I drove the sportwagon twice before going with the C-Max.  (We both hate red dash lights!)  I've never even been in a Prius so I leave that to those who have!

 

SPARE:  Agree but apparently its true of many new cars.  We occasionally get to some real out-of-the-way places (possibly without cell reception) so I bought a used "real" C-Max wheel ($175 I think) and a new OEM tire.  Its easy to get a solid 3-point tie down in the back with the tire flat.  Takes a bunch of space but its only been out once or twice in 7 months.  Long term plan was to get a compact spare for closer to home travel and then keep a couple of the "old" tires around after buying the next set.  The full size spare will then go into a 5 tire rotation pattern so no money lost there.

 

SHIFTING:  I hated to see all our vehicles slowly "shift" ( :sad:) to automatics for various reasons.  But I must say, the eCVT is nothing like an automatic!  "Automatics" are always down-shifting, up-shifting, doing it at the wrong time and generally driving me buggy because I could do it better!  The C-Max, however, is only one (mechanical) speed.  It never shifts.  The engine starts and stops but that is so quiet and done so smoothly that its nothing like "shifting".  I would buy the C-Max for the transmission alone.  :wub2:  We might as well get used to kissing our manual shifters goodbye.  Hybrids and Electrics will never use them.  (You can always get a "second car", "back-up" car or antique "for-fun" car with all the old stuff and take it out for the occasional 'fix'!) :shift:  And when you're stuck in stop&go ....

 

MPG:  At 55,000 miles our indicated lifetime mileage is at 48.  Pump calculated is a bit under 47.  It all depends on where and how fast you drive.

 

12V BATTERY:  We had one once or twice a year ago but knowing all I know now, I would go out and buy the car with less hesitation than at the original purchase. :)

[SPL Tech]

 Combine that with an extra $0.40 per gallon to cover timing belt replacement and your 45 mpg "tanks" ( :lol:) to about 24 mpg! 

That's not true. The timing belt only runs $600 to replace and you dont need to do it until 120,000 miles. If he is buying brand new it's unlikely he will even keep it to 120k. Also, if you run your CMAX to 120k and never have to replace anything, then you did better than most. Chances are by 120k you will have to replace something.

 

The service on the VW is a ton though. I got rid of my TDI for a CMAX. The stealership wanted $1200 for the 40k service. Of course I did it myself for under $400, but still it was a lot. Oil changes run about $70 if you do it yourself as the car needs a very special type of oil that is expensive. Then you have diesel fuel filter changes every 20k and DSG transmission flushes every 40k. Even if you do all the maintenence yourself it adds up quickly.

 

You do, however, need to replace the DPF around 100k or so as it gets clogged, and that is not cheap. Probably $2000 at the stealer or maybe $400 if you do it yourself.

Edited January 23, 2015 by SPL Tech

[fotomoto]

The service on the VW is a ton though. I got rid of my TDI for a CMAX. The stealership wanted $1200 for the 40k service. 

 

Our local VW dealership advertises a "free" lifetime/unlimited miles warranty.  The tiny print disclaimer to see dealer for details so I did and the owner must have all service done at his dealership.   What a deal!  LOL

[SPL Tech]

Our local VW dealership advertises a "free" lifetime/unlimited miles warranty.  The tiny print disclaimer to see dealer for details so I did and the owner must have all service done at his dealership.   What a deal!  LOL

Those "lifetime" warranties are shams. There are whole books written about that topic. They have so many exclusions and limitations that it's pretty much impossible to get anything covered for free unless you are really lucky and the car breaks down the day after you buy it. It’s just another marketing trick to try to lure you into buying a car from them. Sort of how some dealers offer $5000 for your car above KBB, but then charge $8000 over MSPR on the new car. LOL

 

[DaveloMA]

So, there are a couple of 2014 SEs in my neighborhood that are optioned in a way I'd like, one that was built in Feb 14, the other built in Sep 14. To the extent that the Great Battery Saga has been resolved (or not), any reason to choose one over the other? In other words, might the Sep model be less likely to suffer from SBDSFCU (Sudden Battery Death Syndrome From Causes Unknown) than the Feb model? (I guess the answer to this question depends on whether Ford got a handle on SBDSFCU, which, aside from the service bulletin for the 13 MY year I read about on this forum, is unclear to me.)

 

Also, to the extent that I like negotiating a price (I do not), might I be able to get a better price on the Feb model, which seems to have been on the lot a long time (at least since there were green leaves on the trees)?

 

Thanks!

David