End Of The ICE-Age

[SnowStorm]

This article says that battery costs are already down to $300 per kW-kour and "...within five years, electric cars will be cost competitive with ICE-age automobiles."  Spring is here!  The ICE-Age is ending!

[SPL Tech]

ICE is not ending and it shouldent. It's still the best technology available for the application it's used in. Electric will never be the future--it cant be. People need to drive cross country which cannot be done without a huge network of charging stations and extremely high current, high voltage charging stations. Further, some people just do not want cars. They want huge trucks that can tow 80,000 lbs, and electric is especially not suited for that application.

ICE will be around for a very long time. It's not going anywhere.

[ScubaDadMiami]

Never say never. "Get a horse" comes to mind. ;)

[raadsel]

Never say never. "Get a horse" comes to mind. ;)

 

Yes, that was my thought, exactly. To paraphrase: Horses are not ending and they shouldn't. It's still the best power available for the application it's used in. Gasoline cars will never be the future--it cant be. People need to drive cross country, which cannot be done without a huge network of gasoline and extremely volatile, huge tank, filling stations. Further, some people just do not want cars. They want wagons that can tow 4000 lbs, and gasoline is especially not suited for that application. 

Edited April 11, 2015 by raadsel

[mtb9153]

ICE will be around for a very long time. It's not going anywhere.

 

Won't much matter when there's no breathable air left due to pollution from the ICE.  My third negative remark tonight I'm in a bad mood. :rant:

[raadsel]

ICE will be around for a very long time. It's not going anywhere.

 

Won't much matter when there's no breathable air left due to pollution from the ICE.  My third negative remark tonight I'm in a bad mood. :rant:

 

I'll agree ICE isn't going away, at least not soon. OTOH, something does have to change, particularly as the CAFE standards continue to get stricter. It will be interesting to see how the automotive industry adapts to meet those standards, though it does seem clear we will continue to see more hybrids and EVs. Additionally, we will see continued improvement in EV (including hybrid) technology, to help automakers meet those goals.

[SnowStorm]

• "ICE will be around for a very long time."
• Horses will be around for a very long time.
• "The ICE-Age is ending."

All true!

[stevedebi]

Modern cars are pretty good on reducing pollution. I think ICE will be around so long as oil is available, or until alternate energy works out cheap enough. That combination of events will probably be a while to occur. And we have to keep in mind that the developing world will need energy to get out of poverty. I think the industrialized nations tend to forget that.

[Adrian_L]

Remember when CDs arrived?  EVERYONE said records weren't going anywhere.  You know what?  They were gone in a blink of an eye.

 

In 20 years, there will be electric charging stations in every single parking spot and you won't be able to buy a straight ICE car.  I suspect plug in hybrids will be the norm but with Telsa producing cars with 300 mile ranges......who knows?

[stevedebi]

Remember when CDs arrived?  EVERYONE said records weren't going anywhere.  You know what?  They were gone in a blink of an eye.

 

In 20 years, there will be electric charging stations in every single parking spot and you won't be able to buy a straight ICE car.  I suspect plug in hybrids will be the norm but with Telsa producing cars with 300 mile ranges......who knows?

No, I pretty much doubt that prediction. Electricity is going to be too expensive compared to oil. As to hybrids, that depends on a lot of factors, including how fuel efficient they can make the ICE only vehicles.

[Adrian_L]

The price of electricity has got nothing to do with the price of tomatoes. 

 

How much are the Focus Electric owners on our forum paying to juice up their cars?  $1 a day? 

[scottwood2]

I think ICE will still be around.  I know guys that hate hybrids and say it is too quiet.  That said for most people it comes down to cost.  Gas prices have dropped a lot over the past year.   Truck sales have been great and the C-Max's have had a hard time selling as have many other smaller fuel efficient cars.  As the cost of electrics come down and become cheaper to buy/operate and maybe even simpler to repair then the sales will go up.  

 

Someone said here that records have gone by the wayside.   True for the most part but there is still a market for records.  I recently heard about a few new turntables coming out.  So it is not dead but a small percentage of what it was.  I think ICE will become the same thing. Some will still want it but most will switch to the new technology again if it is better and cheaper.  

[stevedebi]

The price of electricity has got nothing to do with the price of tomatoes. 

 

How much are the Focus Electric owners on our forum paying to juice up their cars?  $1 a day? 

Electricity is going to go up, at least here in CA. I currently pay almost as much for electricity as I do for gas, in running my Energi.

 

I keep track of both, to calculate MPGe.

Edited April 14, 2015 by stevedebi

[fotomoto]

Said in 1905: 

 

Horses are not ending and they shouldent. It's still the best technology available for the application it's used in. Gasoline will never be the future--it cant be. People need to get cross country which cannot be done without a huge network of gasoline stations.  Further, some people just do not want cars. They want huge wagon teams that can tow 80,000 lbs, and gasoline is especially not suited for that application.

Horses will be around for a very long time. They're not going anywhere.

 

 

;)

[wab]

This is from 2012, we were passed by one a couple of years ago between Dallas & Houston.

 

"Heavy-Duty Hybrids

 

Coca-Cola began building a hybrid fleet in 2001 and now has the largest heavy-duty hybrid electric fleet in North America. Steve Saltzgiver, Coca-Cola's group director of North America fleet operations, says alternative-fuel vehicles now make up close to 10 percent of the company's heavy duty truck holdings, and the company is on track to double this percentage in the next seven years. So far, Saltzgiver says hybrids have saved the company up to 30 percent in fuel and reduced emissions by about one third."

http://www.coca-colacompany.com/stories/how-our-truckers-save-gas

[Marc Smith]

Hope springs eternal...

 

I drove my first hybrid about 7 years ago.  A 4 day rental prius while in CA.  took me a while to finally pull the trigger.  was happy even with the prius....

 

I think the ICE will have it place for a long time.  Hybrids have become mainstream.  100% electrics are now being sold by major car makers.  Tesla has the range for all others to shoot for.  now if we can get range with a lower price.  Couple that with some charging station network...we'll be on to something...

 

I could easily use any of the all electric cars for my daily use.  my commute is under 20 miles one way...  Old habits die hard.  and I'm not ready to give up the ice 100% just yet.  We are a two car, soon to be three-car  family.   I wonder if a new EV may be in the my future I can pawn the 2008 Saturn Vue green line off on my daughter...

[ptjones]

The real problem with EV is the charging time of a half an hour or more is inconvenient when compared to 10min. gas fill up. Going Cross Country would be a pain. ;)

 

Paul

[SnowStorm]

The real problem with EV is the charging time of a half an hour or more is inconvenient when compared to 10min. gas fill up. Going Cross Country would be a pain. ;)

 

Paul

Charge time needs to be reduced and you have to charge more frequently but, hey, we're suppossed to stop every two hours anyway plus you can do the food/restroom/walk-the-dog/etc stuff all while charging.  Throw a Tesla my way and I'll go Cross Country for FREE (while somehow managing to cope with the new "pain")!

[Marc Smith]

edmunds did a cross country thing in a tesla   23 stops for charging

 

Distance: 3,331.9 miles
    Total time: 67 hours, 21 minutes.
    Driving time: 52 hours, 41 minutes
    Average driving speed: 63.2 mph
    Total Supercharger plug-In time: 14 hours, 40 minutes
    Average Supercharger plug-in time: 38.3 minutes
    Number of Other Stops: 0
    Total energy consumption: 1.06 Megawatt-hours
    Total fuel cost: $0 (thanks to Tesla's free Superchargers, available to all Tesla owners)

 

figure with our cmax,  you'd get 500 miles per tank on highway milage so thats  6.6 stops for fuel (90 minutes).      figure by the time  you stop for food, potty add in another 6 more stops (2 hours)

Edited April 15, 2015 by Marc Smith

[Adrian_L]

We're still in the "Model T" phase of electric technology.   Obviously things are going to be far different in 20 years.   There's exciting stuff going on in Europe with heavy-duty vehicles and diesel/electric technology.   But if you think you're going to be driving an Escalade with a massive V8 in 2035---think again.

It simply doesn't make sense to spend loads of money on fossil fuel technology when newer technology provides massive savings.  Coca-cola are on the right track and other companies will jump on board as well. 

[fbov]

Remember when CDs arrived?  EVERYONE said records weren't going anywhere.  You know what?  They were gone in a blink of an eye....

Poor choice for an analogy... no shortage of sellers or new product

http://www.soundstagedirect.com/?gclid=CMjgvtLs-MQCFcEkgQod8iYA5A

http://www.amazon.com/Vinyl-Records-Albums-LPs-Eps/b?ie=UTF8&node=372989011

 

and my favorite; a listening comparision on some top-notch audio gear:

http://www.audioholics.com/editorials/analog-vinyl-vs-digital-audio

 

CDs weren't gone in the first blink of that eye. In the second blink, some folks realized they'd been hoodwinked by the digitial transition, and so vinyl lives on, as will fossil fuels for the forseeable future.

 

Not saying the market won't shift - it has to - but markets rarely make absolute shifts unless driven to it by external forces.

 

Have fun,

Frank

[ptjones]

Here is a Link to Big Truck Turbine/Hybrid:   http://www.hybridcars.com/wrightspeed-combines-gas-turbine-and-batteries-for-big-fuel-savings/

44mpg WOW!  Walmart made a AeroSemi. :)

 

Paul

[Adrian_L]

Ok have it your way.....

 

Replace "record" with "carburettor" and "CD" with "fuel injection".

 

I think the point of my analogy was clear enough. 

[Adrian_L]

Better one:

 

Everyone (incl. pro photographers) said film would be with us forever when digital photography was introduced.   When's the last time you loaded a roll of 35mm in your camera?

[stevedebi]

edmunds did a cross country thing in a tesla   23 stops for charging

 

Distance: 3,331.9 miles

    Total time: 67 hours, 21 minutes.

    Driving time: 52 hours, 41 minutes

    Average driving speed: 63.2 mph

    Total Supercharger plug-In time: 14 hours, 40 minutes

    Average Supercharger plug-in time: 38.3 minutes

    Number of Other Stops: 0

    Total energy consumption: 1.06 Megawatt-hours

    Total fuel cost: $0 (thanks to Tesla's free Superchargers, available to all Tesla owners)

 

figure with our cmax,  you'd get 500 miles per tank on highway milage so thats  6.6 stops for fuel (90 minutes).      figure by the time  you stop for food, potty add in another 6 more stops (2 hours)

The stops for food, potty, etc. don't count since they would presumably be the same for both vehicles. The C-max will actually do around 550 to 600 at highway speeds. My VW Passat TDI will do nearly 700 if I want to push it.

 

But currently, the bigger issue is where those charging stations are located. The ICE simply can go more places. Unless oil is depleted such that additional charging stations are viable, they simply will not be there in enough places. Yes, you can go cross country on some interstates, but try taking a 100 mile side trip and the picture becomes different.