Honda HR-V versus Ford C-Max

[nsteblay]

I'm a Honda CR-V and 2013 Ford C-Max owner.  I've loved both cars but drive the C-Max the most as I have about 70 miles of commute everyday. 

 

I read an article regarding Honda's new HR-V and apparently its the best selling new car release ever - selling like hotcakes.  I compared the specs against the C-Max, and frankly, I don't see any advantages to the HR-V. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Honda fan, have had at least one the past 30 years. But when I compare room, mileage, and power I would consider the C-Max a sub-compact SUV that competes with the best of them. The only thing it lacks is 4-wheel drive.

 

Somehow Ford missed the boat on marketing the C-Max.

 

Except for the recalls (I've appreciated Ford's diligence to fix known problems) I really haven't had any significant issues with the car.  My lifetime MPG is 41 and this spring I've been getting 50+ MPG. I drive in some pretty nasty traffic and the C-Max hasn't let me down when acceleration is needed. The comfort is outstanding for me, the wife and kids. We love the car.  

 

It should be a much better seller.  I'm thinking of picking up a used one as they are way under valued.

[kostby]

 "Honda's new HR-V and apparently its the best selling new car release ever - selling like hotcakes… "

 

 

Not surprising, the product niche that includes the newly-introduced HR-V is for compact, 5-passenger, fuel-efficient "high-roof" mini-wagons. It was "legitimized" in the US (in exactly the same way that Apple "legitimized" the existing touch-tablet market when they introduced the iPad 1 in 2010) when Toyota and Pontiac introduced the Matrix/Vibe twins in early 2002 as 2003 models. And then Pontiac was murdered by GM in 2010, and Toyota let Matrix production finally dribble to a halt in 2013.

 

What was the formula in 2002? Pretty much the same one Honda is using today, with primarily technology updates: Modest exterior dimensions, great efficient use of every nook and cranny of interior space, 4-door/5 passenger/rear hatch, tons of absolutely flat storage space when rear seats are folded down, fold-down front passenger seat, allowing objects up to 8 feet long inside, 1.8-liter 130HP, 25/27/31mpg for the most common 4cyl FWD AT model, but varied with engine, transmission, and AWD options.

 

Compare the numbers for yourself:

 

2016 Honda HR-V: http://www.edmunds.com/honda/hr-v/2016/?tab-id=specs-tab&sub=suv

2003 Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe 2003: http://www.edmunds.com/pontiac/vibe/2003/features-specs/

 

The tale of the tape:

Beyond the introduction in 2002, neither Pontiac nor Toyota ever truly "marketed" the Vibe/Matrix, yet sold tens of thousands every year in the best production years, mainly on word-of-mouth from other buyers, and occasional large cash incentives to clear inventory. Most of the Matrixes and Vibes are still on the road with original, second, third, and even fourth owners still discovering "the magic formula" that Honda has now revived with the HR-V.

 

Then Pontiac and Toyota committed the ultimate sin in 2009: They added a more powerful 2.4 liter engine still saddled with a 4-speed automatic transmission, and EPA numbers dropped significantly just as gas prices were moving upward. The high-end models were only available with the 2.4, and the 1.8 was limited to the base models, basically without any of the desirable options.

 

 

"Somehow Ford missed the boat on marketing the C-Max…"

The problem is that Ford first tried to market C-MAX with the now infamous "47/47/47 We Beat Prius" campaign and failed miserably, in part because Consumers Union insisted those numbers were absolutely impossible, even though, as real-world mileage appears on Fuelly.com and many owners here prove, the numbers ARE possible.

 

So Ford admitted the permissible 'gaming' the system by using the same numbers for Fusion and C-MAX because of a shared powertrain. So they lowered EPA estimates TWICE, while paying off the early adopters TWICE with cash customer-satisfaction rebates.

 

Then dealers lost confidence in them because the two least expensive builds (200A and 201A) of the C-MAX SE suffered the most from repeated 12-volt battery drain issues that are only NOW being solved with the latest bulletin 15E04 (I'll say "apparently" - because only time will tell if they have finally arrived at the solution to the multiple causes of failure).  

 

And THEN Ford basically stopped advertising C-MAX except for a couple of national commercials that were so generic, they could have been about almost ANY Ford product, and Ford no longer talked about specific fuel mileage numbers.

 

And now the C-MAX is a 1000 vehicle a month niche product. If Ford continues to manufacture them long enough, eventually they may become "an overnight sensation" that took 5 years for the general public and most dealerships to discover.

Edited June 21, 2015 by kostby

[HotPotato]

Just saw an HR-V in the wild. It is smaller than you might imagine: based on the Fiesta-sized Fit; not the Focus-sized Civic. Its Ford equivalent might be the B-Max, which we don't get in North America.

 

...Or for a more familiar comparison, the Buick Encore or Nissan Juke. It's a tall wagon and a Honda, so I imagine it will be roomy for its size.

Edited June 20, 2015 by HotPotato

[mike884]

I've compared a C-Max to a fit, literally side by side.  If the HRV is any larger than a fit... than the HRV has more cargo/space in general than a C-Max.  The fit is smaller  than my c-max, but the interior space is easily on par.  There is actually more usable room due to the magic seats, etc and no  "battery Hump".  And the fact that a fit is dirt simple compared to c-max, no 12v problems!... but that is another debate. 

Edited June 23, 2015 by mike884

[cheezy]

 

 

It should be a much better seller.  I'm thinking of picking up a used one as they are way under valued.

 

THAT's the secret right now.....Yeah, the Honda will pull from the devoted Honda crowd. Just left the Hastings/ S. St. Paul area-insane traffic metrics.

[scottwood2]

I don't know how many people I have talked to that say "what car is that" when I say I bought a C-Max.  Many people don't know this is out there and what it is. 

 

Mini crossovers are hot now and the C-Max (at least to me) fits this category pretty well other than no all wheel drive.  Add electric rear drive only to this and you might have something to compeat

[SnowStorm]

I've compared a C-Max to a fit, literally side by side.  If the HRV is any larger than a fit... than the HRV has more cargo/space in general than a C-Max.  The fit is smaller  than my c-max, but the interior space is easily on par.  There is actually more usable room due to the magic seats, etc and no  "battery Hump".  And the fact that a fit is dirt simple compared to c-max, no 12v problems!... but that is another debate. 

Our C-Max replaced a Fit (which we still have) so here's a few thoughts.  The Fit is a great small car with excellent space utilization and flexibility but it doesn't come close to comparing to the C-Max.  Why?

1. The C-Max has that feeling of effortless power that is totally lacking in cars like the Fit with their small engines and endlessly downshifting auto transmissions.  Even moderate Interstate grades cause it to at least kick out of lock-up and really big hills send the tranny on an all out "tour of the gears" while the engine screams for mercy.  Call that hyperbole if you like but I can't describe how much I've enjoyed the "no-shift" eCVT in the C-Max and (baring all-out flooring it) the near total lack of engine noise.  It eats "big hills" for breakfast.  I had no idea the car would have this kind of "driveability".  I would buy the C-Max for this feature alone.
2. The C-Max is simply more comfortable.  After 100k+ miles in the Fit I got to where I pretty much refused to take it on longer trips.  Maybe it needs new shocks or maybe I'm just getting more "mature" ( :lol:) in my search for comfort but the C-Max was a welcome improvement.
3. Certain dimensions may be similar but instead of the "small car" feel of the Fit, the C-Max is more of a "touring sport sedan".
4. The interior is a lot nicer.
5. Better mileage of course.

So back to the HRV, I would certainly buy it over a Fit (I like crossovers), but over a C-Max?  For me, no way.

[Testdriver]

First of all, I'm not sure what sales record the HR-V is breaking. It sold 7,700 in it's first full month. By comparison, the C-Max sold 4,800 vehicles in November 2012, which may or may not have been it's best month (couldn't dig up all the numbers) 

 

Secondly, A base HR-V's MSRP is $5000 less than a base C-Max SE.

 

Thirdly, Honda already has a strong and loyal customer base in the CUV segment. How much is the HR-V cannibalizing Fit and CR-V sales?

 

So, people are likely buying the HR-V over the C-Max is because it's cheaper and/or Honda's strong reputation in the CUV market.

[stevedebi]

First of all, I'm not sure what sales record the HR-V is breaking. It sold 7,700 in it's first full month. By comparison, the C-Max sold 4,800 vehicles in November 2012, which may or may not have been it's best month (couldn't dig up all the numbers) 

 

Secondly, A base HR-V's MSRP is $5000 less than a base C-Max SE.

 

Thirdly, Honda already has a strong and loyal customer base in the CUV segment. How much is the HR-V cannibalizing Fit and CR-V sales?

 

So, people are likely buying the HR-V over the C-Max is because it's cheaper and/or Honda's strong reputation in the CUV market.

I'm probably through with Ford (after 40 years of driving the brand) due to their decisions on cutting capabilities with the 2014 (specifically daytime running lights - another story, if you like it is on the Energi forum). The HR-V will be on my list because I had a CR-V about 10 years ago - excellent car - and I need CUV height for the tall curbs at my house. Plus I want something small. It will depend on the seat comfort. My Mother in Law has a Fit and the seats are terrible.

 

I don't know, I may just buy my Energi at the end of the lease, that is also an option. Depends on timing and the deals available.

[B4804514]

I'm a Honda CR-V and 2013 Ford C-Max owner.  I've loved both cars but drive the C-Max the most as I have about 70 miles of commute everyday. 

 

I read an article regarding Honda's new HR-V and apparently its the best selling new car release ever - selling like hotcakes.  I compared the specs against the C-Max, and frankly, I don't see any advantages to the HR-V. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Honda fan, have had at least one the past 30 years. But when I compare room, mileage, and power I would consider the C-Max a sub-compact SUV that competes with the best of them. The only thing it lacks is 4-wheel drive.

 

Somehow Ford missed the boat on marketing the C-Max.

 

Except for the recalls (I've appreciated Ford's diligence to fix known problems) I really haven't had any significant issues with the car.  My lifetime MPG is 41 and this spring I've been getting 50+ MPG. I drive in some pretty nasty traffic and the C-Max hasn't let me down when acceleration is needed. The comfort is outstanding for me, the wife and kids. We love the car.  

 

It should be a much better seller.  I'm thinking of picking up a used one as they are way under valued.

I believe Ford does not make as much money on the C Max as they do other cars so it is not to their advantage to sell more of them infavor of other similar styled gas engine only vehicles 

[stevedebi]

I believe Ford does not make as much money on the C Max as they do other cars so it is not to their advantage to sell more of them infavor of other similar styled gas engine only vehicles 

I think they are selling the C-Max and Fusion hybrids (and especially Energi) so that they can meet CARB and California clear car requirements. So it is worth it for them, even though they don't make much money. They need the clean car credits.

[markd]

The smaller the car the less they make, you can't even buy a Fiesta using the Z code. By 2018 look for a hybrid transit. I think that is their reasoning behind the C-max.

[cmax-nynj]

I think Ford would sell a lot more CMax's in the US simply by naming the car as Escape Hybrid or Focus Hybrid in the first place