Transmission Leak

[jchaddpete]

A few weeks ago, when I took my 2013 C-Max in for an oil change, the technician discovered a very slow transmission leak--apparently from a seal somewhere in the unit.  It wasn't so bad that fluid needed adding, but it did need to be repaired under the warranty.

Although I needed the vehicle for a few more weeks, I did take it in for the repair.  It was a big deal that took several days and involved removing the entire engine/drive train.  I had thought that it would be a more simple repair job involving a gasket replacement.

Anyway, it might be a good idea for C-Max owners to have the dealership check for any such transmission leaks before they become a serious problem.

Has anyone else been affected by this issue or was this a unique situation?

[ptjones]

A few weeks ago, when I took my 2013 C-Max in for an oil change, the technician discovered a very slow transmission leak--apparently from a seal somewhere in the unit.  It wasn't so bad that fluid needed adding, but it did need to be repaired under the warranty.

Although I needed the vehicle for a few more weeks, I did take it in for the repair.  It was a big deal that took several days and involved removing the entire engine/drive train.  I had thought that it would be a more simple repair job involving a gasket replacement.

Anyway, it might be a good idea for C-Max owners to have the dealership check for any such transmission leaks before they become a serious problem.

Has anyone else been affected by this issue or was this a unique situation?

I had mine replaced and it wasn't leaking.  BTW the only way you would know it was leaking is when ICE lower cover is off. :)

 

Paul

[Tomasz Karwowski]

How often should I Change automatic transmission fluid ?? Every 160 000 miles ?? Now I have 15 000Miles. 

[cheezy]

A few weeks ago, when I took my 2013 C-Max in for an oil change, the technician discovered a very slow transmission leak--apparently from a seal somewhere in the unit.  It wasn't so bad that fluid needed adding, but it did need to be repaired under the warranty.

Although I needed the vehicle for a few more weeks, I did take it in for the repair.  It was a big deal that took several days and involved removing the entire engine/drive train.  I had thought that it would be a more simple repair job involving a gasket replacement.

Anyway, it might be a good idea for C-Max owners to have the dealership check for any such transmission leaks before they become a serious problem.

Has anyone else been affected by this issue or was this a unique situation?

 

 

How many miles did you have on it and what was your cars production date? 

[jchaddpete]

Have about 15,000 miles, and production date was around February 2013.  Technician stated that the seal leakage was in an area where the silicone seal had defective porosity--or something like that.  Anyway, it's fine now, even though it took about five days to fix the leak--practically removing everything in the engine compartment--including the radiator, engine/drive train, and most everything else.  The technician said that fixing the leak took very little time, but getting to the area that needed the repair took a couple of days, and putting everything back together took the same amount of time.   I'm sure that Ford wouldn't want too many more warranty repair jobs like this one.  Perhaps they should have put more thought in a design that wouldn't have involved so much time and cost to them to simply fix a transmission leak.

[soulbluprint]

A very similar thing happened to me. Took my 2013 C-Max SEL to the dealership for an oil change, and they told me the axel seal/transmission is leaking (7 on a scale of 1-10). Seriously? My car is only 3 years old -- this should not be happening already. If anyone is wondering, yes, it is covered by Ford's powertrain warranty. 

 

Finally got the appointment at a Ford Dealership, and they figured all they would need is a part... They gave me a rental car and told me it would be 1-2 days, tops.  Called me the next day -- nope, need to pull the whole transmission out to get to it. What?? Um, okay.  Call me a couple days later to let me know that since it is a hybrid transmission, that they deem it "untouchable" and ordered a brand new transmission... For FREE.  Thank god for the warranty! Now, I wait. So far, it's been a week since all of this began.

 

The new transmission is quite a relief, because I was planning on taking the car in next weekend to get the transmission checked out anyway. Ever since I bought the car (bought it used in Oct '15, with 35k miles), let me just say -- it is the *loudest* car I have ever owned. Does anyone else have that issue? Highway seems okay, but slower speeds and idling, it just whines like crazy. I can't seem to find anyone else online talking about this. Any time I've ever had passengers in my car, that's the first thing they notice ("Wow, this thing is loud. You sure it's a hybrid?")  The only thing I can compare it to is an adult-sized RC car! Hopefully, getting the new transmission will help with that, because it's incredibly embarrassing to be driving around a "hybrid" that makes more noise than most cars. 

 

[jestevens]

There is a service bulletin TSB 15-0174 on this problem that another member posted, please check out the Forum for TSBs and Recalls..  Says "certain hybrids built before 12/1/2013" experience an RTV sealant failure

 

 ..so it should be a "known" issue with some build dates although when I talked to my service manager he said he hadn't heard anything about it.  I've never received a notice from Ford the same way I have for the other issues.  Apparently they identified the problem with yours and are fixing it for free, good news!

 

The last time I took my C-MAX in they were so busy doing 3-4 other "known" recalls (airbag parts finally in, battery check, second emissions, etc.) , plus an oil change that I didn't press them about this one - it took all day but they had my vehicle back to me the same day so I was still pretty happy.  I am glad that they do issue recalls and cover the work, unlike some manufacturers.

[Marc Smith]

when it comes to seals.  it always takes longer and cost more   seals are cheap and easy to repalce  but  usually very hard to get to.

 

I had a rear main seal start leaking on my 94 impala SS.  it was a  20 dollar seal.  butto gain access  I had to drain and drop the trans.  doing the actual seal replacement was  10 minutes tops  but took several hours to get to the seal...

[rjam]

I had the rear main fail at 48k. Bought it used with 28K. Dealer replaced under warranty. Drove it 5K miles. Took it in for oil change and the rear main was leaking again. Traded for 2015 CMAX.

[SnowStorm]

My transmission is now leaking.  Changed engine oil and saw that the big cover was saturated with fluid.  Pulled the check plug and had to add 3 quarts of fluid to get it up near the check hole!  Yikes!  That means there was only about one quart left in there.  3.5 quarts gone in about 25,000 miles (since fluid was changed).  There should be an easy way to check the level.  Car is at dealer now to get fixed - hear next week what they find. :sad:

[ptjones]

Where was it leaking out of SnowStorm? I'm guessing the Trans is original. How many miles?

 

Paul

[SnowStorm]

Where was it leaking out of SnowStorm? I'm guessing the Trans is original. How many miles?

 

Paul

Transmission is original at almost 176k miles.  It was dripping down where it bolts to the engine - about half way between front and back.  After adding fluid and parking, it soon soaked a small patch in some cardboard so I put a jar under it.  Next morning there was only a drop or two in the jar so it might have been leaking more while driving.   It then went to the dealer and I didn't look for any codes or monitor any temps.  Scary to think I was running around with the fluid so low.

[ptjones]

Transmission is original at almost 176k miles.  It was dripping down where it bolts to the engine - about half way between front and back.  After adding fluid and parking, it soon soaked a small patch in some cardboard so I put a jar under it.  Next morning there was only a drop or two in the jar so it might have been leaking more while driving.   It then went to the dealer and I didn't look for any codes or monitor any temps.  Scary to think I was running around with the fluid so low.

If I remember right it doesn't through a code until 400*F. :sad: I'm wondering about tightening the mounting bolts. Oil would be thinner when heated up.

 

Paul

[rjam]

A few weeks ago, when I took my 2013 C-Max in for an oil change, the technician discovered a very slow transmission leak--apparently from a seal somewhere in the unit.  It wasn't so bad that fluid needed adding, but it did need to be repaired under the warranty.

Although I needed the vehicle for a few more weeks, I did take it in for the repair.  It was a big deal that took several days and involved removing the entire engine/drive train.  I had thought that it would be a more simple repair job involving a gasket replacement.

Anyway, it might be a good idea for C-Max owners to have the dealership check for any such transmission leaks before they become a serious problem.

Has anyone else been affected by this issue or was this a unique situation?

I had the rear main seal leaking. The Ford dealer found it when doing an oil change. They did have to remove the engine to repair. Put 5,000 miles on writhing two months. Took it in for an oil change (I know this is low mileage for oil change but I am old and continue in my old ways) they found the leak again from the rear main seal. My dealer gave me full blue book retail and then sold me a new Cmax for 10,000 of sticker ... he really wanted to get rid of inventory that had sat for over a year. I was more than happy, it was Kendal Ford Eugene Oregon ... great company.

[cmax-nynj]

Mine had minor seepage at the transmission halves since around 70K.  It was minor though

[SnowStorm]

Well, transmission is gone. :sad:  Dealer has checked it out and there is a substantial leak and an internal noise verified by stethoscope.  I have heard some noise for maybe 50k miles but didn't know if it might be a wheel bearing or CV joint.  Anyway, new replacement is total of about $7100 with 3 year unlimited mileage warranty.  They found some used ones, a couple of 2013s (out of the question) and a 2014 with 66k miles but would still cost $4800 total and not much of a warranty.  Of course there are lots of others out there but I doubt a used one would be worth it since we would like to run this car another two or three years.  We will consider options for a different car and will have our salesman look into that.  I just wish there was an electric option I like but there isn't yet - I don't think.

[icanhazc-max]

Well, transmission is gone. :sad:  Dealer has checked it out and there is a substantial leak and an internal noise verified by stethoscope.  I have heard some noise for maybe 50k miles but didn't know if it might be a wheel bearing or CV joint.  Anyway, new replacement is total of about $7100 with 3 year unlimited mileage warranty.  They found some used ones, a couple of 2013s (out of the question) and a 2014 with 66k miles but would still cost $4800 total and not much of a warranty.  Of course there are lots of others out there but I doubt a used one would be worth it since we would like to run this car another two or three years.  We will consider options for a different car and will have our salesman look into that.  I just wish there was an electric option I like but there isn't yet - I don't think.

 

The only sensible option is cutting any losses and offloading it.

 

What would one get for a 2013 SE with a bum transmission?

[plus 3 golfer]

There may be other shops that will put a used transmission in for less than $4800. 

 

The decision to cut losses most times is a financial one (cash flow) not necessarily an economic one in that one does not have the cash on hand to pay for a big expense. One "cuts losses" and buy a replacement car that can be financed / paid for over time.

 

So, 176k miles / 7 years = 29+k miles per year X 3 years = 90 k miles.  $7.1 k / 90k miles = $0.08 / mile.  Where can you find a used car like the C-Max that depreciates less than 8 cents a mile?  Any new car will be well above 8 cents a mile for the next 3 years.  Your "real" trade in value with the car fixed, broken or after another 90 k miles will likely be between $1-2k which is virtually immaterial in the analysis. How many people will buy a car with 176k miles on it even if it has a brand new transmission.  

 

We know the big expense risk for a C-Max is the transmission.  If your plans are to put a lot of miles on a car in the next three years, paying $7100 might make sense (or $4800 or less if you are a gambling man).  Of course the risk of fixing / keeping vs buying new / used is the potential for having other major expenses with the C-Max in the next 3 years like the need for a HVB replacement and a series of smaller expenditures over the the next 90 k miles that might be covered under a new or used car warranty.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Plus 3 Golfer

[icanhazc-max]

Anything is possible given the money, time and efforts one wants to invest in any endeavor. How much money, time and effort is it worth to you?

 

If/when the transmission in my '13 SEL (currently at 77k) starts to fail, I'll be promptly transitioning into another vehicle.

 

As a depreciated asset, I'm not looking to lose any more than I've already put in -- purchase price + ROUTINE maintenance. It's a vehicle. A great one for what it is/was, but ultimately still a tool. Emotions shouldn't factor 'lest ye be a fool.

 

WWSD - What Would Scotty [Kilmer] Do?

[SnowStorm]

All thoughts/suggestions are appreciated.  Financially, I'm looking to minimize total cost getting to, hopefully, an electric car in about three years after going another 50k to 100k miles (our 30k per year is expected to drop somewhat).  Just about anything is under consideration at this point.  Other possibilities:

• Lease - what are the options with leasing?  Might it make any sense?  Is it even possible to lease a car that's out of production?
• Find my own transmission for dealer install.  Low mileage ones for a lot less than $2700 are out there I think.
• Get a used one and put it in myself ???  I have a good engine hoist and place to work but that's taking on a lot.  It might not be too bad if there's not much to do on the underside.
• Crazy no doubt, but top it off, get long distance towing insurance and keep driving - maybe figure out a way to add a dip stick and filler tube.  Has anyone investigated how to get at that fill hole on top?

If it doesn't get fixed, the question will be what to do with it.

[cmax-nynj]

Are there Taxi shops around?  They may be familiar with the Ford Hybrid Transmission repair/replacement for less money.  Personally I would sell the car and not bother with any repair at that mileage.

[Marc Smith]

so far no leaks on my trans.  only 70k miles though... on my 2013...

 

it does suck that there is no way to easily check fluid levels.  I guess car makers are thinking that most car owners aren't smart enough to care...

 

simple dfact that by the time the seals fail and leak out and it causes a problem,  the car will be so far out of warranty the car maker won't care.

[ptjones]

If you have a ScanGaugeII or some other OBDII gauge system you can monitor the Trans Fluid temp(TFT) and you will see it go up when you are losing fluid.

 

Paul

[plus 3 golfer]

Exactly, you can buy an ELM327 for well under $20 and spend $4.99 for the ForScan App.  I assume everyone has a Smartphone. :)  The Service Manual has typical reference values or many PIDs including TFT for different speeds and so forth.  I've said this before, ForScan is worth it just to monitor tire pressure.   Ford could have easily developed an App for Sync 2 and displayed PID data like temps and pressures on the center display.  But, I understand these Apps aren't for most owners.

 

See Transmission Oil Temperature (TOT) in the attached chart.  Here's Ford's comment on the reference values:

"Reference values may vary 20% depending on operating conditions, altitude, and other factors. 

Values are taken at an altitude of approximately 189 meters (620 ft) above sea level with the engine at normal operating temperature and accessories off."  

 

Ambient Air Temperature is around 75F and Cylinder Head Temperature (used to estimate ECT) is in the 195 to 205F range for the reference values.  IIRC from my recording Engine Coolant Temperature vs CHT, ECT is around 5 to 7 degrees less than CHT.  So, by displaying AAT, CHT, ECT, TOT and Vehicle Speed Sensor one can get a good feel as to what the normal relationship is among these variables and should be able to see if any are out of line like TOT might be on low fluid.

 

There are software monitors that check PID values on startup and continuously and will issue driver warnings and throw DTCs.  But a driver does not want to continually see warnings for small imbalances.  So, the trigger values are generally to prevent damage to the powertrain components. One can likely operate on a considerable loss of fluid before a trigger level is reached.

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Plus 3 Golfer

[SnowStorm]

Just brought the sick puppy home - fluid is blowing back everywhere under the car.  Checked the level - might be down a quart, and in only 50 some miles!  Don't think I'll be driving around and topping off occasionally!  Dealer says there is a noise in the transmission (car on a lift) but to me its still quite faint, you hear something at lower speeds but nothing at 55 and up.  176k miles and The Enterprise is dead.  Sad.  At least they only charged me $60.  Not sure what's next.