I hate dealershipsh

[Marc Smith]

So mom-in-law. Get the Honda killer airbag recall.

 

Like the good girl she is, she takes the car in. 2004 Honda Civic. With 27000 miles on it. Yes 27k. Garage kept. In other words. Cherry...

 

So the service tech does the recall work...

And has a list of "recommended" services

 

Now mind you right on the invoice for the recall work it clearly states "no interval due. Vehicle history states no maintenace due"

 

Replace hoses and t-stat. 498

Replace timing belt 1133

Power steering flush 141

Replace spark plug 431

Coolant flush 168

Trans flush 222

$2600. On a car worth 5700

 

They ask me to come over. And I take look. Hoses all look great, no rot, fluids look like they just came out of the containers Thank fully they did not get any work done. I pulled the owners manual to check service intervals.

No service interval for t-stat or hoses

Timing belt is 120000 miles or 7 years whichever comes first

Power steering flush. No service requirement

Spark plugs 110000

Coolant flush 120000 or every 10 years

Trans flush 120000 no time restraint

 

But wait..it gets better... At the exact same dealership, same car, same vin. She had the power steering flush done in 1/12. Spark plugs done 1/12, coolant flush done 1/12, trans flush in 4/13, fuel induction service 1/12, brake fluid flush 4/13, and a fuel filter 4/13

 

So yes the timing belt needs to be done, and while in there it makes sense for the water pump(not listed) and t-stat. But everything else is, in my opinion, is trying to take advantage of a little old lady. I could maybe understand if she had gone to a different dealership, one that's she.s never been to. But it's the dealership she's had all the other work done. So the records of the work are easily available.

 

It's crap like this that really piss me off with some humans.... Am I off base????

Edited August 3, 2015 by Marc Smith

[Robert Fugate]

It's sad you put your trust in a business and they take advantage of your ignorance/age. Maybe they think twice if you shot a letter to Honda about how she was treated. I assume their's maybe a local garage highly recommended to have the car taken care of, without draining her savings account. https://www.vsb.org/site/publications/senior-citizens-handbook

[Marc Smith]

Robert

 

I work for a university an am on really great (golfing buddy) terms with the manger if the fleet/garage. So getting work done will be easy and painless for the timing belt. The whole situation with the dealership really "grinds me gears" though...

 

I do plan on writing a letter. As I know my mother in law probably would not as she's not one to rock th boat... Good call on sending the letter to Honda as well and not just the dealership

[SnowStorm]

And maybe a copy of the letter to the BBB?

[Kelleytoons]

Yeah, I don't think there's anyone older than 30 who doesn't have some horror story (or three, or 20) about a dealership.  I don't even want to relate the several we had at our local Dodge dealer, who is an asshole (so much so I would never take a Dodge even if one was given to me, and I really LIKE Dodge vehicles).

 

OTOH, we found a local repair shop that a buddy recommended and they are SO completely different it's hard to believe it -- they serviced his vehicle twice and both times didn't even charge him (because it wasn't "that big a deal" -- he had to FORCE $50 on them the second time, for fixing his horn that wouldn't stop honking at all hours of the day and night, and he's a fairly mechanical guy who couldn't solve it otherwise).

 

Our own Dodge was quoted around $1500 for a fix that this shop did for $89 -- and they fixed it in less than two hours when the Dodge place said we'd have to leave it there at least two or three days (and my experience with them is it would have been more like two or three weeks).  How can a dealership even stay in business, or at least their service department, when they are such jerks?

 

Now, so far our Ford dealership has been very nice and kind to us... but we are still under warranty.  We'll see how we feel in a few years (I'm pretty sure that after that time I'll just take it to this local repair shop and hope they can deal with all the electronics, which is what really worries me now).

[Adrian_L]

There was a news story several years ago where they (journalists) took a well running Honda and stuck a piece of carbon in one of the plugs.  They took the car to 7 or 8 different garages.  Estimates ranged from "we fixed it---no charge" to "we recommend a full tune up including replacement of all the spark plug wires, plugs, filters, etc. ($600-700 if I remember) 

It usually boils down to junior mechanics who don't know how to fix a car but merely replace parts serendipitously. 

 

I'd gently point out that you have no evidence that this was (1) due to your mother-in-law's age or (2) is a common experience at dealerships as opposed to general garages (as the title of your post indicates)

[Marc Smith]

Adrian...

 

You are correct on your last statement.....I did paint with a pretty broad brush.... And I hate jump on the dealership hate bandwagon. I have had a fe bad experiences at dealerships, (high pressure sales, ect when coming in for recall or warranty work) and my uncle owned a a few gm franchises before the bankruptcy. And he was cheating sob. The apple fell very from grandads tree...

 

It just amazes me though that in today's age of information that a mechanic and/or service manager would do something like this...

 

Sheesh how hard is it to pull a vehicles history and check. Before recommending services to see what has been done in the past....it makes the dealership look pretty imo....if you can't run a simple vin history, what else can't you do?

[Robert Fugate]

In the car industry Dealership Service Dept are know as, Revenue Departments! 

[Marc Smith]

Ok so here is my first email to the service manager...

 

*********************************

Ryan,

Hope all is well.

Two weeks ago, my mother-in-law and father-in-law brought in their Honda Civic for recall work.

The recall work was for the airbag inflator, TSB 15-040.

Prior to leaving  they were given quite an extensive list of recommended work to be done.  Nearly $3000 in fact.

I was wondering,  when a vehicle comes in for service,  What factors are used to determine what work to recommend?

Is the owners manual consulted for service intervals, Does the technician or service advisor consult the dealership data base to see what work has been recently done, or is some sort of inspection done?

*****************************

 

His response

**************************

Marc,

We do use all of the above.  First we perform a visual inspection of the car then we look at any work already performed here if possible and we will also go over any recommendations from Honda.  Some stuff could be more important now and some stuff could be preventive maintenance items.

[Marc Smith]

So... now I dig in a bit...  I'm not trying to be an a$$hole, and I really don't like being an a$$hole.  but I'm sure thats how the letter will be read...and I provide him with the vehicle vin so he can look up the service history...

 

 

 

*********************

Here's a bit more detail

2004 Honda Civic with 27K miles.  vin *****************  In your shop on 7/24/15  4/18/13, 1/31/12 Owner *****************

The line on the ticket directly after recall work  the service ticket clearly states that
*******************************************************
No interval Due  *Vehicle History Indicates no Maintenance Interval Due

 

Recommended work
Hoses and T-stat  $498
Timing Belt  $1133
Power Steering Flush  $141
Replace Spark Plugs  $431
Coolant Exchange  $168
Trans Fluid Exchange  $222

Hoses and T-stat-   1.8 hours to replace.  The t-stat  works or it doesn't  no real reason to replace it unless it fails.  The hoses are not stiff, no cracks or evidence of any rot or bulging/swelling

 

Timing Belt-  (honda's kit also includes water pump) over due for time not mileage  3.5 hours, 2.7 of which is to remove and replace the timing belt, the rest is for water pump.

 

Power steering flush was done January 2012(by your shop), and the power steering flush has no maintenance interval per Honda owners manual or  other than check and add fluid as needed. with a time of .5 hours to Flush.

 

Spark Plugs-  Service interval 110K no time limit.  .5 Hours

 

Coolant Exchange  Work Done January 2012 (by your shop)  120K miles or 10 years.   .8 hours

 

Trans fluid Exchange 120K or 6 years, then 90K or 5 years  Done April 2013   at your shop. .6 Hours

Plus at your shop brake fluid flush was done in April 2013 and Fuel Induction service in January 2012

 

I'm so glad the my in-laws hold on to records like this and that they question stuff and ask for guidance when they are in doubt.  I am by no means a certified ASE mechanic .  I have, however done my share of work around a car.   I used to race SCCA  I took a GM class on rebuilding the 4L60E auto trans that i would swap after  road racing, track days and Solo events, several engine swaps and build up on the lower end, head work and cams, OBD2 Tuning, ect...

 

I'm appalled that your shop would have the audacity to recommend some of this work, given the vehicles recent service history and current state (garage kept in pristine shape, the proverbial car driven by a little old lady).    I also realize that ALLDATA (yes I have access and it where I got my allotted hours) is not the "bible" when it comes to Pricing car work,  but its almost always in line with Manufacturer guidelines.

 

$400 to replace 4 spark plugs in 30 minutes...  If I could do one of those every day for a year  I'd quit my day job...
Coolant Exchange,  you were going to charge for this work,  when doing the hoses and t-stat and Timing belt (water pump) each involve draining and refilling of the cooling system as part of the service???

 

It just really seems like your service tech and advisor may have been trying to drum up business and unneeded work on a potentially uninformed/unsuspecting consumer, or your Tech and Advisor are not consulting Past Service History and maintenance guidelines provided by Honda.  In the first case its just being greedy, in the latter case its just being incompetent....Not sure what is worse.

[obob]

I suspect the service advisor's and the mechanics are getting a commission which blinds their humanity.

Edited August 4, 2015 by obob

[Adrian_L]

I'm glad you mentioned the sparkplugs.  $100 would be outrageous.  $200 would be laughable.  But $431 is an abomination.

[obob]

Too bad there isn't a website (insert dealer name)_horror_stories.com for you to post that post.  That might get their attention.  

 

Though you might write Honda corporate.  They don't like bad publicity for there Good Car image.  I actually have called them about my Dad's transmission, 2000 Accord, and after some persistence, got them to subsidize a faulty transmission replacement.

 

Marc, your post #10, awesome.

Edited August 4, 2015 by obob

[Marc Smith]

I will write a letter to honda in my MILs defense. and include the correspondence from the Service manager...

 

Other honda dealerships wanted about $180.  but were consistent no where near $400.  180 is still robbery on $40 worth of parts and 30 minutes of labor...  But I also understand that  a dealership  has a lot of overhead and expenses are spread out amongst all the work...

 

the reviews on google are largely very solid... only  a few bad ones...  https://www.google.com/search?q=honda+of+tysons+corner%2C+reviews&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#lrd=0x89b64a5fc9c45c3f:0x1e6f7d627e712eb8,1

Edited August 4, 2015 by Marc Smith

[Kelleytoons]

Speaking of social media...

 

I'm sure Honda has a Facebook page, and companies are VERY savvy nowadays about their image.  Posting your letter and story there might be *very* interesting.  If nothing more, you might get some other folks aware of dealerships and perhaps save some other money for people like your in-laws who aren't always that wise in the ways of the world.

[Marc Smith]

Kelly,  Nothing is off the table...  Just need to whittle the story down and cut out the drama..

 

I will copy all the current service invoices and draft up a letter (snail mail) to honda.

 

The Service manager was quick to respond to my first email.,  about 30 minutes.  My second email....Its been about 5 hours now....

[hybridbear]

Too bad there isn't a website (insert dealer name)_horror_stories.com for you to post that post.  That might get their attention. 

There is... dealerrater.com

[Marc Smith]

I posted to Hondas Facebook page...I got one troll to jerk me around but no Honda rep....

[Adrian_L]

Don't forget dealerrater.ca if you're north of the border. 

 

[HotPotato]

Oof. I tell you, this is one reason I'm big on electric cars: less mechanical maintenance and less mechanical crap to go wrong. Much better! As long as the manufacturer cares enough to debug the software and train the dealer technicians, that is, and based on my experience with a thrilling but buggy Fiat 500e, FiatChryslerAmerica does not. But the great thing about software bugs is you can literally fix them by turning it off and back on again!

[SnowStorm]

And do I ever want an electric car too!  The decisions about how to drive efficiently would be so much simpler.  And no oil and filters to change!  As to dealers, Tesla may indeed have the right idea.  Get rid of that independent network that supposedly makes its money on "service".

 

What overall mileage do you get in the Fiat - watt-hours per mile?  I've been wondering if I would get significantly better than EPA ratings with an electric car the way I do with the C-Max hybrid.

[HotPotato]

And do I ever want an electric car too!  The decisions about how to drive efficiently would be so much simpler.  And no oil and filters to change!  As to dealers, Tesla may indeed have the right idea.  Get rid of that independent network that supposedly makes its money on "service".

 

What overall mileage do you get in the Fiat - watt-hours per mile?  I've been wondering if I would get significantly better than EPA ratings with an electric car the way I do with the C-Max hybrid.

 

Official city mileage is 122 MPGe and hwy 108 MPGe (miles-per-gallon-equivalent). Couldn't tell you what the WHM is because my HOA charges a flat monthly fee for EV charging rather than metering.  But I can tell you the smiles-per-watt are off the charts!

 

Scheduled maintenance intervals on this car: show up once a year for tire rotation and a fluid level check. Pretty great.

[Kelleytoons]

I always wonder about the WHM is on either electrics or a hybrid like the Energi -- given how much we pay for electricity here (A LOT!) I have a suspicion that in the end it wouldn't be any more cost efficient for me than my C-Max.

 

But having a flat charge for EV charging *could* make it worthwhile, assuming they don't just raise the rates (as HOAs can anytime they damn well choose to do so.  At least the power companies have to go through the pretense of public hearings :>).

[stevedebi]

I always wonder about the WHM is on either electrics or a hybrid like the Energi -- given how much we pay for electricity here (A LOT!) I have a suspicion that in the end it wouldn't be any more cost efficient for me than my C-Max.

 

But having a flat charge for EV charging *could* make it worthwhile, assuming they don't just raise the rates (as HOAs can anytime they damn well choose to do so.  At least the power companies have to go through the pretense of public hearings :>).

Depends on the local energy cost (including value charge times), local cost of gas, and how short your trips are. In my case I can go for weeks without adding gas unless there is a trip on the highway.  For the right commute, the Energi can save a lot of money. My cost of electric is around a dollar fifty cents per day, as opposed to using about 3/4 gallon of gas for the same commute. At 4 dollars per gallon, it saves about a dollar a day I guess. Probably more over my older car (an Escape Hybrid). But the EV is such a blast to drive...

 

Also, here in CA, the Energi gets access to the HOV lane with a solo driver - a big asset in LA.

[Kelleytoons]

Yeah, I guess I'd have to know what the L.A. electric rates are compared to here in central Florida (the closest I could find compared L.A. to Tampa, which had Tampa about 25% higher -- and our rates are higher than Tampa).

 

I'm guessing, offhand (and perhaps not even in the ballpark but perhaps at least playing the same game :>) I'd have to pay close to what you figure you are saving in gas IF gas was $4 a gallon (so right now I'd be losing money driving the Energi, to the same tune as you are saving).  Again, really hard to compare because, as you say, depends on the commute, etc.  One thing for sure: we have no special lanes or other considerations here (given how things are, I'm actually kind of surprised we aren't penalized for trying to save money on gas :>).