Am I doing it wrong???

[Tymer]

Hey all!

 

I recently purchased a 2013 Cmax SE ice storm about a month ago with about 52,700 miles on it, one owner with a completely clear carfax.  After researching between it, the prius, and a few of the tdi vehicles over a couple months I decided on the Cmax in a single afternoon upon sitting in both the Cmax and a prius they had on the lot.  The difference for me was night and day!  

Anyhow, I've put 2100 miles on it so far.  Love how it drives.  Comfortable and QUIET!  But, I have only been able to manage low 30's mpg.  The best I've managed has been 36 mpg.  From what's been posted around, it seems like I may need to get the software updated???  Is there anywhere that I can check to see what or when the updates have been done?  Also, I live in south central Kansas, moderate to no hills, avg winds of 12-30 mph, and I live out in the country about 20 miles to the nearest town so most of my commute is on a rural two lane black top with nearly no traffic.  I have also been lurking around and reading just about every post on the site that catches my eye and might have some potentially good information.  Joined up after purchase, made it official!! lol

 

Here's what I've got so far:

- 25 mile one way trip to work:  depending on the route: all 25 miles at approx 60 mph; or 12 miles at 60 mph, ~4-6 miles at 65-68 mph, ~2-3 miles at 30 (cruise set in town where traffic allows) with maybe only two stoplights catching me, last ~4-7 miles at 65-68 mph

- EV+ & ECO cruise always

- No less than 89 octane gas, ethanol free (had that stuff rot a motorcycle fuel tank on me one winter)

- Outside temp: coldest was mid 40's warmest mid 80's since I've bought the car

- HVAC set to auto and usually have the A/C off and temp settings in the mid 70's

- Tire pressure at 42 psi

- VERY easy/gentle accelerations where traffic allows, typically no more than a two bar acceleration

- Great brake score as well as looooooooooong coasting to stops (again where traffic allows)

- Idk what weight oil is in the engine & tires were brand new prior to purchase

- I'm still getting the hang of the pulse and glide technique

 

Before i figured out how to reset the 'Lifetime Summary' I used the Trip 2 odometer as my personnal lifetime one (I'll try and thow a picture of that in).  And it seemed the previous owner only managed a 34 mpg average over their 2.25 years of having the car.  I've taken it on a few 1 hour road trips but most of my miles have been of the work commute variety.  The dealership where I bought the car is almost 2 hours away, so a quick swing by there to chat is a little more difficult than I would like.  Plus I had the "explained more to the salesman than he knew about the car" kind of experience.  And I am unsure of my local ford dealership's proficiency with a vehicle crammed with this much tech, at least where the software upgrades are concerned.  To be fair, I have yet to make it in to talk to their service department.  Haven't had a day off work since purchase.  

 

Any tips, questions, or "hey dummy do this" stratgies??

 

Thanks all for your time and also for any help!!

 

---tymerTHEcheezGUY

[ScubaDadMiami]

Set the left screen to My View, and check to see what kind of draw you are putting on the High Voltage Battery during various activities. Just a slight difference in the Air Conditioner can make a big change. You have the temperature in the right zone, but try a degree higher for a while, and see what that does. Also, make sure to turn on recirculate on the air conditioner.

 

Changing to 0W20 oil is not cheap, but I get about three miles per gallon higher with it.

 

High test 93 octane gas costs a little more, but after your car gets used to it, you will get about a gallon better MPG.

 

If you are doing a lot of highway driving on flat areas, search for the Ice High threads. Since a few reprograms ago of the software, it is not quite like it used to be, but I still do it, and it works for me at around 68 MPH. In theory, you should be able to get about 40 to 43 MPG when using this method.

 

It doesn't sound like you are doing a lot of stopping and starting, but learning how to accelerate from a stop, if you are doing it enough, can also boost your MPG.

[raadsel]

You can go to owner.ford.com, select "Service & Maintenance" from the menu on the top of the webpage, then select "Recalls" from the menu that drops down to see what Recalls still need to be performed on your C-Max. I believe this link will take you directly there, just enter your VIN number (you don't need to create an account).

 

I don't know what to tell you about gas mileage, it seems as if you should be doing better. For me in my 2013 C-Max SEL, I run 87 octane gas with ethanol (don't have any stations close that sell it without ethanol), typically have my tires inflated around 45 psi, and wish I didn't need to run the A/C as frequently as I do (though I don't need to run the heater much). 

 

For me, at least from what I can tell using Eco Cruise Control, when I travel around 60 mph on the highway I average around 45 mpg. If I push it up to 65 mph, I average just over 40 mpg. And if I go up to 70 it drops to around 36 mpg (based on display in the car). Basically, as you go above 60 mpg the average fuel economy really starts dropping. 

 

My guess is that, as you better learn how to drive the car efficiently, that your gas mileage will improve a bit. It also seems like slowing down, if possible in areas where you are going 65 mph and higher, will help. I'll also note that with my car, my calculated fuel economy seems to be almost exactly 2 mpg lower than what the car shows. My "lifetime average" on my C-Max shows I've gotten 42.0 mpg, according to Fuelly I'm getting 40.0.

 

[fbov]

 

This is how I think of driving the car. You take energy out of the gas tank and store it as:

-  momentum of the car's motion

- charge in the battery

- elevation

 

You lose energy through aerodynamic drag, which rises very quickly with speed, and rolling resistance, which is nearly constant with speed.

- rolling resistance is the "price" of going anywhere

- aero drag is the "price" of getting there sooner.

 

Here's some real data, plotted vs. temperature, comparing a "rural" commute at 30 MPH average, to an "expressway" commute at more like 60 MPH. It should give you some idea of the temperature sensitivity, and the effect of driving faster.

 

 

My lifetime is just over 40 MPG, but we inherited the car, and lifetime then was 38. I tell people I get between 30 and 60 MPG.

 

Have fun,

Frank

 

 

[toecutter3]

Here is a different way to think about speed and the time it takes to get to work.  

First we all know that the faster you go the lower your miles per gallon.  Physics biatches!

For your 25 mile commute if you travel at 60 mph then it would take 25 minutes.

25 miles(1hour/60 miles)(60 minutes/1 hour)=25 minutes

Now, consider if you went 65 mph. Your commute would take 23 minutes.  A total of 2 minutes saved.  

OK, your in a hurry so you drive the 25 miles at 70 mph.  Now your commute time is 21 minutes.  You shaved 4 minutes off of your commute.

 

Realistically the best you can hope for is 4-5 minutes saved during your commute, but at what cost to your fuel economy.  If you want the best fuel economy, then slow down. I understand that driving slower can be difficult (hey I live in New Jersey and commute on the Parkway), but that is the sure fire way to get good fuel economy.   

Edited April 19, 2016 by toecutter3

[wab]

"- Idk what weight oil is in the engine & tires were brand new prior to purchase"
 
Both of these will make a big difference in your MPG.
I ALWAYS change the oil/filter in any used car I buy ASAP.

What tires did they put on? If they aren't LRR tires then that would be a few MPG's. oem Michelin are the best.
Energy Saver A/S
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Energy+Saver+A%2FS&partnum=25VR7ESAS&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&autoMake=Ford&autoYear=2013&autoModel=C-MAX%20Hybrid&autoModClar=SE 
 
You should check your air filter, it might be the original.

[plus 3 golfer]

Tymer, IMO, given your conditions and driving style, I'd easily get 42 mpg actual FE (maybe 44 displayed) in my 2013.  Since you are only getting 34.7 mpg as displayed, IMO, something is amiss.  Your FE seems to be low by maybe 15-20%.

 

The first thing that jumps out is your EV miles are not consistent, IMO, with what you describe as your driving style, speeds, and conditions. About 25% of your total miles are EV miles.  IMO, your EV miles should be a lot higher given what you stated in your post.  It's an indication that the hybrid system may not be used very efficiently.  The question is why are your EV miles much lower than what I would expect?

 

Also, given that the previous owner only got a lifetime average of 34 mpg and you experience low FE, I'd have the dealer reinstall the software up to current levels.  There have been several members who claimed to have experienced a drop in FE after at least one of the earlier updates.  A re-installation of the software again supposedly reversed the drop in FE.  You may have a hard time convincing the dealer to do it but you need to get it done before your power train 5 year / 60 k miles warranty expires.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Plus 3 Golfer

[fbov]

Tire, yes.

Oil, not so much.

Air filter has no effect.

 

Tire Rack is now including fuel economy in their tire tests, and results are interesting; about a 10% spread across tested tires. OEM's darn near the best; my data above shows OEM Energy Savers vs. Michelin X-Ice 3 snow tire; there is no difference within noise.

Key points:

- high RR cannot be countered; the only remedy is new tires.

- you can measure RR directly.

Stop on the top of a hill where there is very little traffic (obviously)

Put it in N and verify that car doesn't move (you're really at the top of the hill)

Get out, and push the car off the top of the hill, about 1 foot at a time, for safety

Find the point where the car wants to keep rolling, but you can stop it with your pinky finger. Put it in PARK..

Measure the angle of the road under the car. The Tangent of that angle is the RR 

I used a long level of known length. Hold it level, with one end on the road, and measure how far the other end is off the road. RR is that distance / length of the level.

 

I've run two rounds of spec oil, Ford 5W20 blend, a "cheap" full synthetic 0W20 and "premium" "advanced fuel economy" 0W20. No effect. Anyone who reports an effect must either be in very odd operational circumstances, or they're confounding their data.

 

And finally, air filters. I may never replace mine. Engine air filter discussed  below, but cabin filter was fine at 36K.

- no effect on fuel economy in fuel injected engines at operational RPM due to emissions controls

- big improvement in filtration efficiency as a paper filter ages. Dirt blocks the big holes, reducing output particle size.  

- hybrid operating mode (partial use ICE, running at low RPM means there's little air filtered)

 

I will not replace these filters until I can no longer see the Sun through the filter medium. Same criteria I use for our vacuum cleaner, and it's filter is still original. Now, if you have very dusty operational environment, you'll need to check more often than I do. Whatever you do, don't "upgrade" the filter; nothing beats paper.

 

What does make a difference are:

- LRR tires, at maximum indicated pressure (51psi for OEM ES/AS 225/50-17)

- Blocking the three front grill openings so air cannot get thorough

- Using premium, ethanol-free fuel (ONLY if you're already getting ~70% EV; no effect in highway driving)

- you

 

The driver is the biggest factor in fuel economy. Just look at the gap between my baseline and what I eventually got the car to do. It took me a year.

 

Have fun,

Frank

[ptjones]

The OP hasn't commented on this thread so it is hard to solve problems at this point.  If I had to guess I say CARMAX put cheap tires on the car and MPG's went out the window. ;)

 

Paul

[RobMax]

The OP hasn't commented on this thread so it is hard to solve problems at this point.  If I had to guess I say CARMAX put cheap tires on the car and MPG's went out the window. ;)

 

Paul

 

This was the first thing I thought too. I looked at a CL ad for one that had some no-name chinese knockoffs with nothing but horrible reviews. I steered clear, not knowing what else they likely did to cut corners with the car.

 

OP, if you ever reply to this thread let us know what tires are mounted, and try to put 45-50 PSI in them to increase MPGs. 

And above all, ensure Ford has all the modules updated and all recalls have been completed. 

 

Another good site for recall info on Ford vehicles is here. Click the 'vehicle' tab, enter the VIN, and presto, anything needing addressed will be displayed on the left. 

http://www.etis.ford.com/vehicleRegSelector.do;jsessionid=3FC555ED44D7CCED0223921E2D463EDB.eccvas505

The overwhelming majority of 2013 C-Maxes I researched hadn't had any recalls done at all, years after they started selling them. Consistently the only ones not needing recall work were those being sold by actual Ford dealerships. 

[ptjones]

RobMax you make a good point, hopefully OP will respond so we can figure this out. :)

 

Paul

[Tymer]

It's been hell at work, haven't hardly even had any time to myself since I originally posted.  12 hour work days non-stop.  Anyhow, the tires are BFGoodrich Advantage T/A 225/50R17 and I try to keep them at 42-44 psi.  But I will try out the higher pressure to see how that helps out.  Rusty Eck Ford dealership in Wichita, Ks was where I bought the car from.  The original owner sold it to them in November of last year and come to find out, only after having the dealer mail me over a copy of the recall services performed, that is when were several of the recalls were addressed, I've got the paper at home and will update with which recall numbers were done.  Which would explain why the first owner had such low lifetime avg mpg's.  I did have one opportunity to take a long drive (2 hours one way) for work on a perfect conditions day (none to only 7 mph wind, 73 degree temps, and all highway (65 mph) and interstate (75 mph) speeds.  Didn't go over the posted limits at all.  And for the trip I was averaging 39.9 mpg, which considering the interstate speeds I did was MUCH more to what I've expected from the car.  

I wonder if since they only had just "recently" addressed the recalls that affected the mpg's, if the car is still learning how I drive and of course that I'm still learning to drive the car for best mileage.  The number one thing I've changed since posting is sticking to the posted limits or a little slower.  No exceptions.  Also, where the road is best suited for it and when the battery is full enough I give the SET- a quick double tap to force EV mode at highway speeds.  On this tank of gas I'll have finally broken 500 miles.  It won't be by much, probably only 520-540 miles but that certainly makes me very happy! :2thumbs:   

I've switched to the kWh screen on the left side of the screen and not seen and significant or barely any drag on the battery that isn't reasonable.  And on the MFT 2 display screen I use the one that shows the graphic of the car that animates where the fuel/battery energies are going and also show the engine Status (pretty much always hybrid drive/ charging HV lately).  

 

I'm fairly certain the main issue is me.  I'm sure I still goof and drive in the habit I've had for the last 18 years.  I can't comment on the tires, I am uninformed on what constitutes a good tire from bad, aside from price.  However, I am reading and researching when I happen to have a little down time at work.  And as such, the tires could be the other big factor in my mileage.  The next free day I do get I'm hoping to call the dealer and set up or at least STRONGLY insist that they re-install the updates for me.  If the one that sold it to me won't, there is at least one more large Ford dealer in Wichita that I am certain is certified to do that work on hybrids.  

 

Lastly, thanks all for the suggestions, help, and insights!  I always appreciate the help from those who know more and have more experience than I.  Much simpler than stumbling about it myself.

[wab]

I know way too much about working 12 on 12 off, $ is good and you don't have time to spend it ;).
 
Your tires are good tires just not LRR's, probably costing you 4 or more mpg's.

If high MPG is your thing you should consider the oem Michelin.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Energy+Saver+A%2FS&partnum=25VR7ESAS&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&autoMake=Ford&autoYear=2014&autoModel=C-MAX%20Hybrid&autoModClar=SE

[ptjones]

+1

I also agree that tires are your problem, you are down probably 4 mpg with those tires. ;)

 

Paul

[Tymer]

The recalls done were: 14S21 rcm replacement, 15B04 battery reprogram, and 15E03 PCM update.

All done 11/25/15

On the 15B04 there is also noted "tested battery--passed, programmed all modules required, inspected wires and applied 3m temflex cotton friction tape.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Tymer

[plus 3 golfer]

15e03 is rather cryptic in that it says some vehicles may have been reprogrammed with a service calibration which may cause emissions data to be lost under some conditions. Perhaps ICE never / takes longer to  go into closed loop operation because of this "lost data". FE will not be good.

 

Let us know if your FE improves.

[Tymer]

Having to make a trip to Kansas city today and over the last month my average has gone up considerably! And still climbing. I even happened to glance down and noticed full ev at 75 mph for about a mile, I'm sure it was a slight downhill grade. But I call it a win. Things are looking better, thanks again all!!

[Recumpence]

One thing that no-one has mentioned (unless I missed it) is that the first 10 miles of a drive after the car has sit for an hour or more will return very poor mileage. For me, I see mid 30s mpg for the first 5 miles, then it eeks up to around 40mpg over the next 5 miles. I arrive at my first stop a touch over 40mpg. Then my second run (another 12 miles or so) will move my daytime mpg up to around 45mpg. It typically takes me around 3 or 4 of these trips (appointments for work) to hit 50mpg.

 

On top of that, you are doing almost exclusively highway driving. If I leave first thing in the morning and hit the expressway to go out of state, I will average around 42mpg for a 2 hour interstate trip.

 

Matt

[ptjones]

One thing that no-one has mentioned (unless I missed it) is that the first 10 miles of a drive after the car has sit for an hour or more will return very poor mileage. For me, I see mid 30s mpg for the first 5 miles, then it eeks up to around 40mpg over the next 5 miles. I arrive at my first stop a touch over 40mpg. Then my second run (another 12 miles or so) will move my daytime mpg up to around 45mpg. It typically takes me around 3 or 4 of these trips (appointments for work) to hit 50mpg.

 

On top of that, you are doing almost exclusively highway driving. If I leave first thing in the morning and hit the expressway to go out of state, I will average around 42mpg for a 2 hour interstate trip.

 

Matt

I would think you would do better on the HWY with your Aero Mods.  I hit 47-52mpg on the HWY. :)

 

Paul