Long-term C-max tests: 75% transmission failure

[plus 3 golfer]

Make me wonder  if an earlier transmission service say at 50K  might be in order to help prolong the life.

 

Or.  don't do an early service  and hope it fails at 90K  rather than 100,001

 

I'm at 40K right now  putting about 15k a year on the car.  90% commuting to and from work 18 miles each way  with only a short stint, maybe 2-3 miles at 50-55 cruising speed...  with the occasional long trip 4-500 miles

If this issue is bearing failure, then UOAs might be in order as one might see elevated metals.  But that likely won't help in getting Ford to preemptively replace the transmission.  Changing fluid likely won't "fix" a bad bearing.  I believe ones best bet is to monitor TFT for abnormal increases but Ford again likely won't replace it unless there is noise.  

 

So, what I'm doing is monitoring TFT.  If elevated, I will drive it hoping for the "noise" before the warranty expires. If elevated TFT, no "noise" and near 100k miles, I'll then trade it.   I'll be around 75 k miles by the end of summer (about 5 k miles in trips planned) and likely will be approaching 100 k miles at the end of 2018.  Hope we get more definitive data / info on these failures by then.

[Marc Smith]

+3....

 

That would be my though process as well...  I't will  be closer to 2019 though when i hit 100K Maybe I'll be independently wealthy in 3 years, and a small transmission failure  will be chump change.   :)

 

although my daughter will be first year in college  so...there goes any spending  money...

[scottwood2]

The fix was done in late 2013 so you are in good shape.  

Thx for the reply. 

[SnowStorm]

although my daughter will be first year in college  so...there goes any spending  money...

Been there, spent that...!

"The Enterprise" was built in April 2013.  I think there was a Service Action, and also letters were supposed to be sent, but I never got one and the SA never showed up for my car so I can only 'assume' mine has the fix.  Am now at 99k+ so I sure hope so!  Several times I have checked the temperatures of the coolant lines up at the radiator (after driving awhile) and always found a significant difference between them.  I have not done much monitoring of OBDII data, however.

[Marc Smith]

Ill have to check my build date....

[ptjones]

If this issue is bearing failure, then UOAs might be in order as one might see elevated metals.  But that likely won't help in getting Ford to preemptively replace the transmission.  Changing fluid likely won't "fix" a bad bearing.  I believe ones best bet is to monitor TFT for abnormal increases but Ford again likely won't replace it unless there is noise.  

 

So, what I'm doing is monitoring TFT.  If elevated, I will drive it hoping for the "noise" before the warranty expires. If elevated TFT, no "noise" and near 100k miles, I'll then trade it.   I'll be around 75 k miles by the end of summer (about 5 k miles in trips planned) and likely will be approaching 100 k miles at the end of 2018.  Hope we get more definitive data / info on these failures by then.

You can extend your warranty to 130+K mi. like I did.  Mine failed at 98k so I didn't need it, but if you had an idea it was going to fail you could extend your warranty. :)

 

Paul

[djc]

Might be possible to listen to bearings from time to time using a mechanics stethoscope.  These work well - and a cheap one is $3 at Harbor Freight.

What would be useful is a recording of normal transmission bearing noise.  Periodically play that in one ear and current bearing sound in the other.  Or A/B switch them.

 

Condenser mics have gotten very cheap.  Some day cars may monitor their own noises and self-diagnose problems before they are incapacitating.

[ptjones]

Might be possible to listen to bearings from time to time using a mechanics stethoscope.  These work well - and a cheap one is $3 at Harbor Freight.

What would be useful is a recording of normal transmission bearing noise.  Periodically play that in one ear and current bearing sound in the other.  Or A/B switch them.

 

Condenser mics have gotten very cheap.  Some day cars may monitor their own noises and self-diagnose problems before they are incapacitating.

This is unnecessary  if you pay attention to your CMAX's noises, when it starts to go bad you will hear a new noise. It will steadily get loader as the miles go by, IIRC I put put on another 1200 miles after I first heard the noise start and was worried I couldn't go another 1200 miles to home so I stopped in Albuquerque to have it fixed. I might have been able to make it home, but I was worried that it would stop in the middle of no ware. ;)  Bottom line is the Trans doesn't just stop, it takes alot of miles to get real noisy. I don't remember anyone have their Trans just stop. :) 

 

Paul 

[djc]

Update on long term reliability of 2013 C-max from government testing.

I re-visted the site today and looked at the individual service history pdf's for each of the 4 cars being tracked.  See first post on this thread for mid 2016 data.

https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-button/2013-ford-c-max

4 vehicles (identified  by last 4 digits of their VINs):
2158 last date 3/24/2016   132k     tranny 110k $3900
5138        "       9/27/2016  170k         (no tranny replace)
5139        "       6/21/2016  144k   tranny 90k  $4400
8698 last date 3/16/2016  130k.  tranny 115k $4k
 

It remains the case that 3 out of the 4 had transmission replacements at 90 to 144k miles.  Car 5138, with 170k miles as of Sept last year, had not needed a transmission replacement.  No other major expenses reported for the cars (after transmissions, tires are the major recurring costs).

 

The tranny replacements weren't covered under warranty.  Some have reported that the drive-train including transmission is covered for 8 years or 100k in most states, and 10 years / 150k in "CARB" states, (including AZ and NM, which is where I believe these cars were located).  My own C-max warranty summary says the mechanical components of the transmission are covered for 5 years / 60k miles; only electronic components unique to hybrid cars are covered longer. 

 

Given that the most recent service update (including oil changes) is Sept 2016, I suspect this long term tracking of the four cars has ended.

[ptjones]

Update on long term reliability of 2013 C-max from government testing.

I re-visted the site today and looked at the individual service history pdf's for each of the 4 cars being tracked.  See first post on this thread for mid 2016 data.

https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-button/2013-ford-c-max

 

4 vehicles (identified  by last 4 digits of their VINs):

2158 last date 3/24/2016   132k     tranny 110k $3900

5138        "       9/27/2016  170k         (no tranny replace)

5139        "       6/21/2016  144k   tranny 90k  $4400

8698 last date 3/16/2016  130k.  tranny 115k $4k

 

It remains the case that 3 out of the 4 had transmission replacements at 90 to 144k miles.  Car 5138, with 170k miles as of Sept last year, had not needed a transmission replacement.  No other major expenses reported for the cars (after transmissions, tires are the major recurring costs).

 

The tranny replacements weren't covered under warranty.  Some have reported that the drive-train including transmission is covered for 8 years or 100k in most states, and 10 years / 150k in "CARB" states, (including AZ and NM, which is where I believe these cars were located).  My own C-max warranty summary says the mechanical components of the transmission are covered for 5 years / 60k miles; only electronic components unique to hybrid cars are covered longer. 

 

Given that the most recent service update (including oil changes) is Sept 2016, I suspect this long term tracking of the four cars has ended.

As far as I know all CMAX trans are covered for 8yrs/ 100k mi. and mine was replaced at 98k mi. at no cost. :)

 

Paul

[djc]

Paul, thanks for info.  Please come with me to the service desk if mine fails. 

(I did like your pictures of your transmission: it is pretty.  But I am not keen to see mine outside the car.)

[ptjones]

Paul, thanks for info.  Please come with me to the service desk if mine fails. 

(I did like your pictures of your transmission: it is pretty.  But I am not keen to see mine outside the car.)

Glad too and that pic is ICE & Trans together. :)

 

Paul

[nsteblay]

I think I had this problem right after I bought my CMax 2013 SEL back in October of 2012.  It was just a couple of weeks after I got it and there was a terrible vibration and noise when I drove it one morning.  The dealer actually towed the car from my house and I was able to pick it up a day or two later - don't remember exactly. They told me the couldn't find anything and I haven't had an issue since. I wonder if there wasn't a defect that they fixed.  

[ptjones]

Don't know what to make of it, need more info. :headscratch:

 

Paul

[stevedebi]

As far as I know all CMAX trans are covered for 8yrs/ 100k mi. and mine was replaced at 98k mi. at no cost. :)

 

Paul

10 years / 150K miles for cars sold in CARB states, like here in CA.

[Degrandbob]

I'm curious if it's normal for the Cmax Hybrid drivetrain to make a slight swooshing / dragging sound when you first start driving it in the morning? Its barely detectable, but still increases and decreases relevant to my speed...as I drive very slowly in my subdivision....And then goes away after I increase speed unto the highway! I almost have 12,000 miles and love the car and assume it is a normal function with charging the battery? Any thoughts?

Edited September 15, 2019 by Degrandbob

[grege]

Degrandbob,

 

I'd recommend posting audio of it.  Our two will whine or grind a little every morning, but ours sounds more like overnight rust busting loose from the brake discs.

 

Greg  

[Degrandbob]

Degrandbob,

 

I'd recommend posting audio of it.  Our two will whine or grind a little every morning, but ours sounds more like overnight rust busting loose from the brake discs.

 

Greg

 

It's not that distinguishable. It's interesting you also hear some sound, unlike non hybrid vehicles. I'll assume it's normal like the sound it makes when you are decelerating! Thanks for your input.

[mikep]

I'm considering buying a 2013 C-Max Hybrid with only 55K miles, but I know these cars have trans failures. After reading this thread, it appears that there's still disagreement on the Ford Warranty on this problem. I see the brochure quotes 5 years / 60k miles on the Powertrain (includes transmission).  The 8-yr/100K warranty is on Hybrid commonents (not trans IMO), and still others are siting a CARB warranty of up to 150K, but CARB is the Cal. Air Resources Board, which governs warranties on emmisions parts (I live in California).  Did anyone ever ask Ford and/or find out what the real deal is?   These cars look superior to the Prius hybrids to me, but I don't want to buy a ticking $5K bomb either!  ?

Edited December 30, 2019 by mikep

[plus 3 golfer]

The snip below of the 2013 Unique Hybrid Warranty shows the transmission Is covered - see red circled words in attachment.  Members have had the transmission replaced under this warranty. CARB states are 150 k miles for certain components.  Download the warranty manual and see what’s covered to 150 k miles.  Plugin Vehicle transmissions are  specifically listed as covered in CA.  http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/catalog/owner_guides/13hybwa2e.pdf

.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Plus 3 Golfer

[C-MaxA2]

Somewhere here (or perhaps somewhere else, sorry my memory isn't what it used to be....) there was a date (middle to late 2015, May?) where the transmission issues were largely solved. Fortunately, I have a 2016 with a build date of Oct. 2015 so I'm hoping I'll be OK.  

 

I'd like to see some data on transmission failures BY MODEL YEAR - that would tell all of us a lot about what to expect in the future. 

[bigqueue]

On 6/16/2016 at 12:52 PM, obob said:

 

The fix was done in late 2013 so you are in good shape.  

 

The fix was put into cars after August 15th, 2015......here is the most recent (as of today) TSB talking about it.

 

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10148717-9999.pdf

 

 

[bigqueue]

On 1/3/2020 at 8:31 PM, C-MaxA2 said:

Somewhere here (or perhaps somewhere else, sorry my memory isn't what it used to be....) there was a date (middle to late 2015, May?) where the transmission issues were largely solved. Fortunately, I have a 2016 with a build date of Oct. 2015 so I'm hoping I'll be OK.  

 

I'd like to see some data on transmission failures BY MODEL YEAR - that would tell all of us a lot about what to expect in the future. 

 

 

Here is the TSB that says the date August 15, 2015 is the ALL CLEAR fix date for car MFG.

 

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10148717-9999.pdf

 

 

[ptjones]

2 hours ago, bigqueue said:

 

 

Here is the TSB that says the date August 15, 2015 is the ALL CLEAR fix date for car MFG.

 

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10148717-9999.pdf

 

 

To me this shows the bearings either weren't the right alloy or weren't heat treated right. IMO

 

Paul

[stratosurfer]

On 1/16/2020 at 12:11 PM, bigqueue said:

 

 

Here is the TSB that says the date August 15, 2015 is the ALL CLEAR fix date for car MFG.

 

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10148717-9999.pdf

 

 

I may pick up an Energi in the future, does this TSB on the HF35 cover the CMax Energi? I couldn’t tell by reading it.