LVB Replacement/ Drain Issue Need Help

[thedman]

About two weeks I was at the cabin ready to leave and I realized that Maximilian was dead, no power locks, nothing. I had never dealt with this before I have had the car for over a year and put close to 21000 miles on it. Thinking that I left my GPS plugged into the USB port over the weekend I must have drained it. I got out the 12 volt charger we use for the tractors and hooked it up to the posts under the hood. I thought it would take forever to charge but I got in and it turned over instantly. Thinking nothing of it I drove it home and drove it around for about a week and a half just fine. Then this past weekend I went out to start my car and I noticed that the screens refused to light up when I got in and the headlights flickered when I turned it on. After turning all the accessories off I got the car to kick into the HVB and drive away. Since then yesterday and now today every time I go to turn it on it takes a couple turns of the key to get enough juice to kick the car into the HVB so I can drive. I went to the stealership because that was the only place I could locate a replacement battery and the guy who was knowledgeable with CMax's first checked it for recalls which it was up to date on, but then recommended I don't replace the LVB and instead have them try and find what may be causing a battery drain issue such as a faulty module. He said he's seen a lot of random drain issues in CMax's before and they usually have to be scoped out. So... I need your input he thought finding the drain issue would be about $130 versus a new battery $135 which route do you think I should go? I don't want to spend hours for them to lead to nowhere and spend money in labor for them to do that. Plus its my only vehicle so I kind of need it to work, and consistently. 

[fbov]

12v lead/acid batteries have a finite life, but... you're in cold country, where batteries last. Mine has never had a 12v issue, but it's an SEL with the big screen and MFT. 

 

I mention it because early SE's had 12v battery issues just like what you describe. Do a search in the forum. The check out may be in order. 

 

Have fun,

Frank

[SnowStorm]

My thoughts (I had the dead 12V battery problem too):

1. Go to owner.ford.com, put in your VIN and see what's listed under SERVICE & MAINTENANCE.  There was a CSP a year ago about dead 12V batteries (see this post and this topic).  Unfortunately, it ended this past May.  It was NOT a "recall".  You should find out if your car was on the list or if it ever had this 15B04 CSP done.
2. If you can no longer get it done free, I would try and get it done anyway - and if they do it for $130, I would consider it a good deal.
3. I expect you will need a new 12V battery.
4. This problem seems to have gone away since this CSP came out.

I hope others cross-check what I've said.

[jestevens]

It doesn't need enough amps to actually crank the engine, it only needs enough 12V power to close the relays and run the computer(s) reliably which can then command electric motor to use HVB power to spin the crankshaft and start the engine.  So it doesn't surprise me that it didn't take long to start after you gave it a good source of 12V power.  The 12V DC converter probably can power the computer and accessories while the car is started but whatever is going on your 12V battery is either being drained or can no longer hold a charge after it is turned off.

 

Unless you can give it to the dealer to troubleshoot and get a rental or use an alternate car I would invest in one of those 12V jumpstart packs just so you aren't stranded accidently. 

 

I have a 2013 SEL and they tell me my original 12V battery is "Good" as of "The Works" yesterday.  Our winter climate here in PA is still mild compared to MN - typically we measure snow in inches and total is a few feet per season. - last year was unusual in that we seemed to get all of the snow for the season in one storm.  Batteries seem to last longer when they are in the trunk rather than the engine but they still have a finite life.

Edited September 13, 2016 by jestevens

[thedman]

I went out again today and the battery was dead for work. I kept turning the key and it finally turned over. The only thing that I saw that might be draining draining it is my OBDLink MX bluetooth OBD scanner. The lights were on on it this morning and I finally unplugged it. I have had it plugged in for almost a full year without issue and is is supposed to have technology to shut it off it it senses battery drain. I'm going to see if this solves the problem but has anyone else had issues with this scanner. 

[ptjones]

I use a ScanGaugeII, so no Bluetooth, My 12v voltage has been low for years but it still keeps on working.(136kmi.) :)  I would first replace the battery because it's time and FORD is going to recommend it because of how old the battery is.  Changing the battery is relatively easy to do and you can save the $100 they will charge you to do it. Remember you will need a 12v jumper batt.or charger to keep power to electronics so you don't lose all the stuff in the memory when disconnecting the 12v batt.  If for some reason this doesn't solve the problem at least you have done the first step. :) 

 

Paul 

[fbov]

... Our winter climate here in PA is still mild compared to MN...

Here's a link to some data Plus 3 posted regarding 12v battery life by geographic region. 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/4887-hvb-health-from-obdii-data-analysis/page-2?do=findComment&comment=62376

[Bill-N]

I use a ScanGaugeII, so no Bluetooth, My 12v voltage has been low for years but it still keeps on working.(136kmi.) :)  I would first replace the battery because it's time and FORD is going to recommend it because of how old the battery is.  Changing the battery is relatively easy to do and you can save the $100 they will charge you to do it. Remember you will need a 12v jumper batt.or charger to keep power to electronics so you don't lose all the stuff in the memory when disconnecting the 12v batt.  If for some reason this doesn't solve the problem at least you have done the first step. :)

 

Paul 

 

I agree with first replacing the battery.  As Paul says, it's about at the end of it's life anyway.  If that fixes the problem, then nothing more need be done.  If not, then have the diagnostics done.

[plus 3 golfer]

I went out again today and the battery was dead for work. I kept turning the key and it finally turned over. The only thing that I saw that might be draining draining it is my OBDLink MX bluetooth OBD scanner. The lights were on on it this morning and I finally unplugged it. I have had it plugged in for almost a full year without issue and is is supposed to have technology to shut it off it it senses battery drain. I'm going to see if this solves the problem but has anyone else had issues with this scanner. 

I leave my ELM 327 plugged in most of the time.  I don't think your OBDLink is the cause of your issue.  Specs say battery saver mode is 2 mA which is not enough drain to cause an issue.  Even if it the Link didn't shut down 62 mA normal load should not cause an issue for many days of not starting your carunless your battery is "weak / failing" .   For example, 100 hours of drain would only be around 6.2 Ah lost.  

 

Did you have the battery tested?   Ford or any battery shop should test it for no charge.  Ford replaced my 12 V battery for IIRC about $138 total.

[thedman]

Thanks everyone! I pulled out the bluetooth scanner and the battery still died. To keep the car going I got a $50 450Watt jumper to get me through. I am taking it to the dealer and having them do a discharge test on the battery first before monkeying around with diagnostics. We'll see what they say. I'll keep you posted. 

[SnowStorm]

You most likely need a new battery but consider:

1. Replacing it won't fix any underlying problem where the battery is repeatedly being "run down" to a level that eventually weakens it but not low enough to prevent turning on the car.  This sequence can happen over and over without being aware of it.  My battery was replaced twice by the time the 15B04 CSP was completed.
2. Checking for discharge at one point in time may not catch the problem.  The car turns things on and off even when switched "off".  If it doesn't turn back off properly then the battery gets drained.  Or it could be an intermittent short circuit in the wiring.

Again, I suggest you try and get the dealer to perform all the updates and wiring integrity checks outlined in CSP 15B04 (which included testing the 12V battery and replacing it if necessary).  Be aware though, that the software updates may reset a bunch of stuff.

[scottwood2]

 I agree that testing the battery should be the first step.  If the test shows that the battery is good then proceed with other testing. 

 

Sounds like it is a good chance that the battery is bad.  Early C-max's (both SE and SEL's) had drainage problems.  More SE's than SEL's were reported here but all models did.  the problems were many different things including a wiring harness.   So hard to tell but if you are current with the recalls then this would point more to the battery again.  But you never know. 

 

Good Luck

[TKM]

I had a 12v issue. every once in a while like 3 time within a 6 month period my CMax would not start. i would wait a minute and try again it would start after 3-4 trys. then no problem. I was thinking it was because i did not use the care for 3-4 days. so i continued with my life. then one morning it was really not starting it took like 20 time trying to start it. In fact i was on hold waiting for  AAA. then it started and i hung up from AAA. when i was backing up it seamed strange. then when i got onto the street and pushed the gas it was not responding. it was slowly increasing speed, but not to when i was trying to make it do. So i took the car straight to the dealer, its still under warranty. they tested it did all sorts of thing and could not reproduce the driving i had. I was very concerned so they kept it over night to see f that would make a difference. It did they found out one of the Cells in the battery was bad. so they replaced it. Not its doing just fine.

[ptjones]

Well it finally happened  My 12v batt. started dying this morning, 8.5 volts at power point and wouldn't start. I waited a couple of minutes and voltage had gone up above 9 volts, it then started.   Thought maybe I left something on, but  had the same problem at lunch. I did have my jumper battery with me so I wasn't worried.  I picked up New Motorcraft battery for $121 with trade in.   Took about 20 minutes to remove and install. It will be nice if this battery lasts 4yrs too.

 

Paul