How long should brakes on the CMAX Last?

[howie411]

My wife took her 2013 C-MAX in for service today and they told her she needs to have her rear brakes replaced because they were rusting.   Is that normal for a C-MAX with only 55k miles on it?

[obob]

It is not normal to need to get brakes replaced.  It is not unusual to have rust.

 

One way to get the rust off is to stop the car using the emergency brake a few times. ( I do not recommend this on a regular basis for it wears the brakes out and I do not think it i necessary.  I do enough suburban driving that the brakes get used to get the rust off. )  This by-passes the regenerative braking and applies brakes in the back.  Though in some respects the rust doesn't hurt the braking and will come off when friction brakes are applied rather than battery regenerative braking.  If on a highway and using the emergency brake to slow down from 55 to 40 a few times I would think would polish the brakes substantially.

 

Very Very Very Few people have had to change brakes, even with 200,000 miles.  Ridges on the brakes, especially on the back, are normal.  Though if you brake really hard the brakes will wear like a conventional car.  I would think if you lifetime brake score is 95 or better, you brake would be in super shape.

 

I would be on the lookout in case the service people are not familiar with the C-Max hybrid or they are out to make some easy money or both.

 

 

This may have some more info:

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/5405-how-long-did-your-rear-brake-rotors-last/?do=findComment&comment=59684

Edited August 9, 2018 by obob

[kyledamron1]

I just recently had my front brake pads/rotors replaced at 75,000 miles. There was a rust ridge rubbing against the dust shield when you'd turn. Otherwise, I'd wait until you notice issues. Rust is going to be normal, especially since we, as hybrid drivers, don't use the brake rotors as much due to regen.

[ptjones]

I have 206k miles on mine and should be able to go another 200k mi. :)

 

Paul

[SnowStorm]

My wife took her 2013 C-MAX in for service today and they told her she needs to have her rear brakes replaced because they were rusting.   Is that normal for a C-MAX with only 55k miles on it?

Agree with obob.  Find another shop quick.  Here's my post (#48) from above link:

 

"You certainly can't believe what every shop says.  My car went in for inspection a month ago at a local shop and they failed the rear brakes for "rust" or some such foolishness.  I had it "rejected" and went to my Michelin dealer whose inspector nearly went ballistic over the fact that the other shop rejected brakes that were very much OK - even though they don't look as "smooth" or "even" as the fronts.  This was with well over 90k miles."

 

Years later with 162k miles my original brakes still pass and work great.

[jestevens]

Just turned 87,000mi and passed state inspection with almost no brake wear - the hybrid system uses regen braking first so the regular brakes should last quite a while.  You do give the car a bath to wash off the road treatment they use in the winter?

[stolenmoment]

I had a similar situation with my recent MA state inspection with my Energi.  The mechanic eventually gave me the sticker, but he complained the whole way, saying that Teslas and Bolts don't look that bad...

[jestevens]

Maybe you have to go at the right time.  My service center is open late hours, til 6PM most weekdays so I went in the late afternoon around 3:30 - asked for the 90,000mi service and state inspection - I think somehow that turned into a The Works oil change and inspection - they were happy to get me in and out quickly so they could go home?

[fbov]

It is not normal to need to get brakes replaced.  ...

I would have to disagree. 

 

Just turned 87,000mi and passed state inspection with almost no brake wear - the hybrid system uses regen braking first so the regular brakes should last quite a while.  You do give the car a bath to wash off the road treatment they use in the winter?

I'm at 59K. Rear brakes warped before 50K. Front rotors rusted out at 52K. The braking surface was flaking off, it's not mechanic BS. Rears are starting to go again.

 

My regen score is about 95%, but I was commuting in the rust belt, so I'm not surprised the fronts died. I didn't expect the rear brakes to be as involved with regen braking, but it makes sense. Regen only works on the front axle in our cars, so hydraulic brakes have to balance that out. Anyone who has experienced the feeling of brake failure entering a turn has experience brake balance failure. That feeling disappeared when I got the rears fixed. 

 

As always, YMMV,

Frank

[howie411]

Ok, got the service form back from the dealership, and the official description says:  "Rear Brake Pads and Rotors - $550.    We declined the service for now, but definitely feel they should last longer then 55k miles on a Hybrid.

 

On a side note my wife's car was just in for its 55k maintenance not 3 weeks earlier and got a clean bill of help.  Then last week the check engine line came on.   When we took it back that is when they said the brakes needed to be replaced, it needed a Brake Fluid Flush ($200) and it needed a fuel induction cleaning ($200) as well as a Coolant Flush ($200)  (This was after they just replaced the catalytic converted for leaking).

 

So they didn't find any issues 3 weeks ago and now all the sudden everything is broken.

Edited August 13, 2018 by howie411

[plus 3 golfer]

Ok, got the service form back from the dealership, and the official description says:  "Rear Brake Pads and Rotors - $550.    We declined the service for now, but definitely feel they should last longer then 55k miles on a Hybrid.

 

On a side note my wife's car was just in for its 55k maintenance not 3 weeks earlier and got a clean bill of help.  Then last week the check engine line came on.   When we took it back that is when they said the brakes needed to be replaced, it needed a Brake Fluid Flush ($200) and it needed a fuel induction cleaning ($200)  (This was after they just replaced the catalytic converted for leaking).

 

So they didn't find any issues 3 weeks ago and now all the sudden everything is broken.

Changing brake fluid is not a scheduled maintenance item for Ford.   But it should done periodically (frequency is very subjective).   Since brakes are "needed", it makes sense to chang fluid.  Are you using Top Tier gas?  I virtually always use Top Tier but still put a double dose of Techron Concentrate cleaner in the tank about once a year.

[obob]

Ok, got the service form back from the dealership, and the official description says:  "Rear Brake Pads and Rotors - $550.    We declined the service for now, but definitely feel they should last longer then 55k miles on a Hybrid.

 

On a side note my wife's car was just in for its 55k maintenance not 3 weeks earlier and got a clean bill of help.  Then last week the check engine line came on.   When we took it back that is when they said the brakes needed to be replaced, it needed a Brake Fluid Flush ($200) and it needed a fuel induction cleaning ($200) as well as a Coolant Flush ($200)  (This was after they just replaced the catalytic converted for leaking).

 

So they didn't find any issues 3 weeks ago and now all the sudden everything is broken.

 

 

 

Ok, got the service form back from the dealership, and the official description says:  "Rear Brake Pads and Rotors - $550.    We declined the service for now, but definitely feel they should last longer then 55k miles on a Hybrid.

 

On a side note my wife's car was just in for its 55k maintenance not 3 weeks earlier and got a clean bill of help.  Then last week the check engine line came on.   When we took it back that is when they said the brakes needed to be replaced, it needed a Brake Fluid Flush ($200) and it needed a fuel induction cleaning ($200) as well as a Coolant Flush ($200)  (This was after they just replaced the catalytic converted for leaking).

 

So they didn't find any issues 3 weeks ago and now all the sudden everything is broken.

 

From what you are writing I would be suspicious.  I doubt the check engine light was about all those things.  A lot of people with C-Maxes have gone a whole lot more miles without doing any of those flushes/cleaning.  After googling "fuel induction service" it did make me think it would be a good idea for me to go fast up steep hill more frequently to blow out some carbon deposits.

Edited August 13, 2018 by obob

[jestevens]

Run as far away from that shop as you can - wow ..  What does a check engine light have to do with replacing and "flushing" (wtf - are the lines corroded??) the brakes?  Is the entire bottom of your car rusting away?

 

Does the car shimmy or vibrate excessively when you use the brakes hard?

 

Check engine more or less has to do with emissions mostly right?  If there was a problem with the brakes or suspension I would expect the VSC or ABS light to come on, not check engine.  I guess if you use discount gas maybe the check engine would light if there were excessive knocking or some such thing.

 

The GM shop I used to take my HHR to use to try to sell their "enhanced" service schedule which included things like injection cleaners, etc...friendly guys but always wondered about that..

Edited August 13, 2018 by jestevens

[howie411]

Changing brake fluid is not a scheduled maintenance item for Ford.   But it should done periodically (frequency is very subjective).   Since brakes are "needed", it makes sense to chang fluid.  Are you using Top Tier gas?  I virtually always use Top Tier but still put a double dose of Techron Concentrate cleaner in the tank about once a year.

 

Nope, we just use regular gas in the car, though when the car was in for service 3 weeks prior they did say they installed BG MOA Conditioner and BG Ethanol defender. 

 

 

Run as far away from that shop as you can - wow ..  What does a check engine light have to do with replacing and "flushing" (wtf - are the lines corroded??) the brakes?  Is the entire bottom of your car rusting away?

 

Does the car shimmy or vibrate excessively when you use the brakes hard?

 

Check engine more or less has to do with emissions mostly right?  If there was a problem with the brakes or suspension I would expect the VSC or ABS light to come on, not check engine.  I guess if you use discount gas maybe the check engine would light if there were excessive knocking or some such thing.

 

The GM shop I used to take my HHR to use to try to sell their "enhanced" service schedule which included things like injection cleaners, etc...friendly guys but always wondered about that..

 

The check engine light has nothing to do with it, I was just throwing that in as an fyi, that the car had service 3 weeks prior and everything was normal.  Then the light came out and when we took it in that is when they said it needed brake work etc a long with the fix for the check engine light.

[plus 3 golfer]

Nope, we just use regular gas in the car, though when the car was in for service 3 weeks prior they did say they installed BG MOA Conditioner and BG Ethanol defender. 

 

 

Look at the list of marketers that are Top Tier certified.   It's quite extensive and all grades of gas of the marketer have to meet the Top Tier requirements.  Since I started using Top Tier in the early 2000s (in my 2000 Passat), no issues with misfires, CELs, rough running, hesitation and so forth in any of my vehicles.

 

Also, there's virtually always a Top Tier marketer whose price matches or is the lowest price in the area.

[jestevens]

I use 87 octane discount (supermarket, etc.) gas and have never had a performance problem with the engine, I was just trying to theorize about what their logical line of reasoning would be for performing the service(s).  It sounds like they already put additives/injector cleaner in your car so not sure why they feel a fuel system purge is necessary..or a coolant flush..or replacing the brakes..  If the check engine light threw an injector related code maybe that's why they think there's contamination in fuel system?

 

I have topped off the coolant in the inverter pump once, I have over 87,000 miles now..the coolant is supposed to be good for a LONG time.

 

Unless you never washed off winter salt treatment on your brakes for an extended period of time I doubt the brakes need replaced.

 

I can't believe a service shop actually expects you to believe you need these services, and if they are that ignorant of the true service schedule then I wouldn't trust them to do the CORRECT service (as printed in the owner's manual, not the "enhanced" schedule they try to upsell)  that my car actually need either, I would find a new dealer service center. 

 

The most maintenance I've EVER done on C-MAX was changing headlights, oil changes and cabin air filter, oh and a 12V battery after 7 years..that's it..and I had to beg them to change the battery because they didn't think the car needed it (the keyless locks were acting funny, problem solved).  I've also replaced the tires a lot - between the way I drive and low rolling resistance tires I guess they don't last long for me.

 

Service center probably doesn't like this car very much since the engine only runs half the time you are operating it.

Edited August 14, 2018 by jestevens

[Cosmo234]

Ok, got the service form back from the dealership, and the official description says:  "Rear Brake Pads and Rotors - $550.    We declined the service for now, but definitely feel they should last longer then 55k miles on a Hybrid.

 

 

I'm a little further along (81K on 2013), but my quote for front AND rear pads and rotors was ~$860.  The pads are OK.  Might as well replace? But the rotors were completely shot.  Told me that they were warped and couldn't be machined.  Said they looked like it was a car that is rarely driven (it's my daily driver).  I don't park in a garage, but I feel like the rotors shouldn't be this bad?  Also...wait for it...swollen lug nuts?  :D 

anyway, has anyone here replaced their own brakes?

[obob]

I'm a little further along (81K on 2013), but my quote for front AND rear pads and rotors was ~$860.  The pads are OK.  Might as well replace? But the rotors were completely shot.  Told me that they were warped and couldn't be machined.  Said they looked like it was a car that is rarely driven (it's my daily driver).  I don't park in a garage, but I feel like the rotors shouldn't be this bad?  Also...wait for it...swollen lug nuts?  :D 

anyway, has anyone here replaced their own brakes?

 

I would be very suspicious.  Is there a bad feel or sound when you brake? 

 

Interesting price: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Front-Rear-Brake-Rotors-Ceramic-Pads-2013-2014-2015-2016-Ford-Escape-C-Max/161401033719?fits=Model%3AC-Max&hash=item25944053f7:g:JWoAAOSwIJtbeDTp:sc:ShippingMethodExpress!19008!US!-1

[SnowStorm]

I'm a little further along (81K on 2013), but my quote for front AND rear pads and rotors was ~$860.  The pads are OK.  Might as well replace? But the rotors were completely shot.  Told me that they were warped and couldn't be machined.  Said they looked like it was a car that is rarely driven (it's my daily driver).  I don't park in a garage, but I feel like the rotors shouldn't be this bad?  Also...wait for it...swollen lug nuts?  :D 

anyway, has anyone here replaced their own brakes?

I'm suspicious as well.  Read this article about "warped rotors".

[jestevens]

I mean, it's entirely possible that the brakes could need serviced due to different driving styles, changes in climate, etc. it just seems peculiar - and for all four of them at once? (unless you asked them to do that). 

 

How do you get C-MAX to apply friction brakes, hard stopping - or put it in N?  If you notice actual pulsing or grinding then I might agree otherwise I wonder..

[ptjones]

Take a picture of them and lets see. :headscratch:

 

Paul

[HappyCmaxGuy]

I have a 2014 CMax SEL with about 75000 Kilometers (about 45k miles) on it.  I decided to buy out my lease and the car is the best one I have ever owned... far better than Mercedes and the rest. Get about 5.1 Litres per 100 kilometers on it.

 

1.  Anyway, the brake pads all have a significant amount left on them but the rear discs seem to be in worse shape than the front ones which are almost perfect.  There is no warping, but on the rears, there seems to be identical score marks on both the left and right discs in the same spot on the radius.  I am thinking that perhaps a rivet is coming through? 

 

The only symptom I have is a rotation noise from the rear of one side.  I thought it might be a trapped stone, but what are the odds of the same score marks on both sides?  No stopping problems and I usually have a brake score of around 95... so it isn't my driving.   There is no rotational vibration or any apparent warping on front or rear.

 

It seems strange to me to require a possible brake job with pads still showing significant life in them.

 

Any ideas?  

 

2. The second issue is that I will likely need new tires.  The only complaint I have about the car is a rather hard suspension when travelling over speed bumps.  it could very well be that the 40 PSI that the OE Michelin tires require are tuned for fuel economy and not comfort... like a Tour de France Bike.  Secondly, this car seems to have been designed on a Focus platform but with the additional substantial weight of the Hybrid battery without a corresponding adjustment to the suspension which makes it feel like it can bottom out over a speed bump, and, when turning at speed on an overpass, one can feel that all 4 tires are working very hard...  

 

So I am thinking about possibly beefing up the tires when I replace them.  As it is they slip on wet surface when I accelerate moderately from a stop due to the electric torque.  Can anyone recommend a replacement tire that they have found deals with the above better than the originals without a significant lost of fuel economy?

 

I would like: slightly softer/ better traction on corners/better wet surface control.

 

tks for any help!

 

[obob]

I have a 2014 CMax SEL with about 75000 Kilometers (about 45k miles) on it.  I decided to buy out my lease and the car is the best one I have ever owned... far better than Mercedes and the rest. Get about 5.1 Litres per 100 kilometers on it.

 

1.  Anyway, the brake pads all have a significant amount left on them but the rear discs seem to be in worse shape than the front ones which are almost perfect.  There is no warping, but on the rears, there seems to be identical score marks on both the left and right discs in the same spot on the radius.  I am thinking that perhaps a rivet is coming through? 

 

The only symptom I have is a rotation noise from the rear of one side.  I thought it might be a trapped stone, but what are the odds of the same score marks on both sides?  No stopping problems and I usually have a brake score of around 95... so it isn't my driving.   There is no rotational vibration or any apparent warping on front or rear.

 

It seems strange to me to require a possible brake job with pads still showing significant life in them.

 

Any ideas?  

 

2. The second issue is that I will likely need new tires.  The only complaint I have about the car is a rather hard suspension when travelling over speed bumps.  it could very well be that the 40 PSI that the OE Michelin tires require are tuned for fuel economy and not comfort... like a Tour de France Bike.  Secondly, this car seems to have been designed on a Focus platform but with the additional substantial weight of the Hybrid battery without a corresponding adjustment to the suspension which makes it feel like it can bottom out over a speed bump, and, when turning at speed on an overpass, one can feel that all 4 tires are working very hard...  

 

So I am thinking about possibly beefing up the tires when I replace them.  As it is they slip on wet surface when I accelerate moderately from a stop due to the electric torque.  Can anyone recommend a replacement tire that they have found deals with the above better than the originals without a significant lost of fuel economy?

 

I would like: slightly softer/ better traction on corners/better wet surface control.

 

tks for any help!

 

 

My advice: don't worry about the rotors.  My rear rotors had that scoring after 4000 miles.  It may have something to do with the rear brakes mostly being used to brake from 5 mph to 0 mph due to the regenerative  braking.

 

This has been discussed a lot if you feel like looking in other brake threads on this site.  There may even be some pictures.

[ptjones]

From a traction stand point tires work better at 50 psi and I have 78k mi. on my Michelin's, going for 85k-90k miles.  When I first started working on tire pressure my tires were wearing more on outside edges than the center.  By going from 38 psi to 50 psi the sidewalls get a little stiffer keeping the tire from lifting  the inside edge when cornering and putting more pressure on the center of the tire. This is also good in the rain to make the tire more resistant to hydroplaning.  :) 

 

Paul 

[fbov]

... The only complaint I have about the car is a rather hard suspension when travelling over speed bumps. ... it feel like it can bottom out over a speed bump, and, when turning at speed on an overpass, one can feel that all 4 tires are working very hard...  

...I would like: slightly softer/ better traction on corners/better wet surface control. ...

Glad you enjoy the car. Sorry you're not pleased with the handling, but you're kind of stuck with it without resorting to after-market suspensions (Focus fits).

 

I don't see tires helping with speed bumps. They're low-frequency inputs where vehicle response is related more to wheelbase, shock tuning and bump profile. Tires just roll over the bump. Tire construction does matter for road noise and rough-road response - high frequency inputs. 

 

In general, tires optimized for traction in corners have very poor ride quality, and vis versa. If you want an appreciably softer ride, put 60-series tires on 16" rims. 215/60-16 is a diameter match (my snows... which ride no softer because they're a 97 load rating with stiffer sidewalls). Being narrower and taller, cornering response will decline, although ultimate grip may not. 

 

Which gets us to tire characteristics - what makes a car fun to drive?

 

I like linear response. Wheel inputs that are directly mirrored in the car's direction, with little change in arc with increasing speed. The downside is untoward behavior at the limits of adhesion. Most tires trade linearity for better behavior at the limit. However, the best tires are matched to the car. Ford did a very good job here; when the tires start to let go, the entire car drifts. If you have experience at speed, drifting a well-balanced car is a very controllable cornering mode that needs little driver input. If you live in the snow belt, you have opportunity to practice. 

 

And if you still want recommendations, look at Tire Rack's reader data and test reports. The former are subjective, but give you some idea of relative quality. 

 

Have fun,

Frank