Sync with MFT dead again

[Vic121]

Well my mom's Sync with MFT in her 2013 C-Max hit the dust again. What happened was she was driving and recently it started showing the "Sirius XM Update" and at first it would complete fast but then days later it would show it and not do anything at all. Then a few days ago the touchscreen just froze up and in the end just shut off. Well on Friday 5/31 we try to start the car and nothing, the cars battery was dead.

 

So $300 later the car is back up and running but my mom is soon looking into getting rid of her C-Max for a Subaru instead. 

[Camijomo]

This may be related. Yesterday, the radio in my 2013 that was on when I stopped the car to get groceries, but it was off when I got back in after shopping. I tried to turn it back on, but it wouldn't, even after turning the car off and on a few times.

 

When I went to drive the car today, the battery was dead and nothing worked. After jumping the car to get it started, I got the SYNC reboot on the display and then the radio was back on and the car ran fine. Oddly, the dashboard "My View" display was totally different than it had been. 

 

Any ideas what's going on here?  Thanks. 

[plus 3 golfer]

This is why one pulls fuse 79 when radio doesn't work correctly - to likely prevent a battery drain when car is off and subsequent dead battery.  If the battery "dies", the car may lose some settings.  Unless there's a hard failure, dealer will be no help.  It's a common problem.  Many experience the radio / touchscreen "freeze" more frequently than others (1 time since new for me).   As fbov says: "I hate the phrase "They all do that" but they do. Happens to mine every 18 mos., four times in six years.”   

Edited September 5, 2019 by Plus 3 Golfer

[stolenmoment]

I've been looking but not finding for a fuse that has a "disconnect" button on it.  I've found breakers that have reset buttons, but not a disconnect.  This would be invaluable for folks like us who need to pull fuses occasionally.

Has anybody seen such a thing?

[Bill-N]

I've been looking but not finding for a fuse that has a "disconnect" button on it.  I've found breakers that have reset buttons, but not a disconnect.  This would be invaluable for folks like us who need to pull fuses occasionally.

Has anybody seen such a thing?

 

Agreed.  And I've been wondering if one couldn't make something that would simply extend the fuse to a more accessible place.

[Bill-N]

FWIW, I found one of the symptoms of a failing 12V battery is a failure of the backup warning beeper to work.  This in addition to flakey radio, etc.

[J-Max]

Hmmm, Bill-N says these problems could possibly be the 12v battery dying?

 

Quick update, bought my '13 SEL in October with 76k, LOVE the car, excellent condition etc etc. Put just over 5k on it so far, not a lick of problems anywhere except the first few months the clock would be way off. Thats been working normally since. Occasionally the Sirius would update taking a few minutes. When backing the display would come on and function normally (yellow then red lights as I neared obstruction) but no beeping as I got close to objects behind me

Anyhow, yesterday upon turning the car on it started updating but froze at 0% complete...all day after several 20-40 minute drives, no change. Could not get CD/AM-FM radio or USB to play.

Today car completely dead, no interior lights or anything. Checked (on underhood jump terminals) voltage, it was 6.xx volts. Jumped it and she started right up. Checked voltage while running at just over 14volts, ok charging system seems normal. Set it to MAX defrost so ICE would stay running. Now the radio will not turn on at all, manual button on the dash nor touch screen button, though touch screen button changes colors indicating it senses my input. I can bring up phone and HVAC but Nav system wont turn on and it says to insert SD card, the OEM one is still in). I also can not turn on audio with the steering wheel controls and the dash display just says audio (or entertainment, sorry a bit cheesed off at the moment) off.

 

Could the 12v battery need replacing? I'm assuming it's the original one, going to check after sending this) which would mean it's 8 years old. I bought the car from a dealership and have the car fax report, nothing about the battery.  Back in July of '13 it had  something done by the dealer, "program #12M02 SYNC with MyFord Touch...Warranty extension covering accessory protocol...Interface module APIM". Then in June of '18 it had "Service contract claim....electrical sys serviced" No other details. Other then that all the other reports are normal service, tires/oil changes.

Could simply removing fuse 79 "correct" these problems, at least until it goes crazy again, which as I've been reading on the forum seems to be a regular annoyance with the MFT.

 

FWIW, she was a rental in Florida Jan '13 to Feb '14 when it was sold to second owner in Wisconsin, then myself last October.

 

TIA, I really love this car and would hate to have big things starting to go bad with it.

[J-Max]

WOOT! Pulling good ol' fuse 79 did the trick (so far it seems). Pulled it and 69 (just because it was easy to get at). Waited a couple minutes, popped the in, turned the car on it it all worked again, pre-sets still there too but bass/mid/treble settings went back to zero.

I did have to reset the My View display. I had it set to show RPM and coolant temp, it reverted back to miles to empty and mpg. Was that because I pulled the 69 fuse?

 

BTW, battery looks to be the original, did't take off the entire cover but of what I could see of the sticker it's a Motorcraft with a copyright of 2011. Cant see enough to tell the actual manufacture date. Still would like to know if it could be going bad.

[cr08]

A LOT to unload in that last message but hopefully I can cover the key points:

 

First, there is no need to force the ICE on for battery charging. Our vehicles will always be powering the 12V systems and charging the 12V battery when it is in 'Ready to Drive' mode. There is no alternator, it uses a DC-DC converter to convert power from the HVB down to 12V.

 

The 12V battery should only need replacing if you have confirmed its capacity has dropped just like any other traditional vehicle.

 

What is most often the case of the radio freeze and related 12V battery drain issues is the ACM (different from the APIM!) and it needs to be updated. There have been TSBs over the years on different Ford models with the same issues and the fix is updating the ACM to a new calibration level. To chime in on one of Bill-N's earlier points: The fact that the parking sensor beeps disappears is another indicator the ACM has locked up and will not shut down when the car is off. The Parking Aid Module sends signals to the ACM to tell it when, how and in which speakers to send the alert beeps. If those aren't heard when they should and the parking button isn't turned 'Off', the ACM is not behaving.

 

Many people just stick with the workaround of pulling the necessary fuse(s) when this happens, but in reality the ACM needs updated.

 

I can say from personal experience that I had my APIM replaced on my 2013 when I bought the vehicle back in 2017 and both it and the ACM were updated at that time. I have not had a single occurrence yet of the radio freezing.

Edited April 15, 2021 by cr08

[J-Max]

Thanks cr08. Is updating the ACM something I can do without any special tools or is it a dealer thing? If this fuse 79 workaround lasts 4-5 months or better I might just skip the update. As mentioned I've had this just over six months with no real issues other then the clock having a mind of it's own a while....oh yeah almost forgot, with the radio on the main display sometimes the preset buttons are blank when I start the car. If I cycle to the next set of presets those will be displayed then continuing around to the set that was blank, they will now display the station. I've only noticed this when on Sirius, I pretty much exclusively listen only to that.

 

Load testing the battery.... most parts stores do this for free, as with a conventional vehicle can this be done without disconnecting the cables? Just double checking as this is the first hybrid I've had.

BTW, whats the average life of the 12v battery in these cars, obviously not having to crank the engine and not getting beat by the heat under the hood in the summer adds years over conventional cars.

[cr08]

The ACM will need to be done by a dealer or a mechanic who has access to Ford's IDS. It can't be updated via USB like Sync can. Having the presets act up like that is also a probably sign of the ACM not behaving.

To give the cliffnotes: The ACM is basically just the AM/FM/Sirius/CD tuner and outputs to the speakers and isn't much different than the old non-Sync radios. The APIM is the 'brains' and communicates with the ACM and tells it what to do and how to route audio and is the touch screen portion of the whole operation. The APIM pulls and interacts with the tuner presets from the ACM which holds them all. So it's all interconnected that way. And it's also why when these freezes happen that the touch screen works perfect but when you go to change sources or volume the controls 'respond' but don't really do anything. It's sending those commands but the ACM's not doing anything with them.

As for the 12v battery, there are jumper leads under the hood on the driver side near the strut tower. There should be a little red cap for the positive post and negative is basically any bare metal. There may be a long bolt sticking out near there for a better connection. But this is where the car is supposed to be jump started from and should also be able to load test here as well as it runs directly to the battery.

 

12v battery life I don't think there's any good numbers as everyone's vehicle has behaved different over the years of ownership and with the above radio freezing issues that most like to ignore will commonly help degrade battery life and skew numbers. Most numbers I've seen thrown out are the classic 'average lifetime' of 12v batteries in any vehicle.

I will say with my OWN personal experience on my 2013: I've had it since April '17. According to the internal counters the 12v battery looks like it MAY be original from the factory. Worst case if someone replaced the battery before me and didn't reset the life counter (FYI: This -SHOULD- be done. The vehicle has a smart charging system and tracks the battery life over time and adjusts charging and discharging based on that. When replacing it, the counter in the vehicle needs to be reset. This either needs to be done by a dealer or can be done via the ForScan app pretty easily) it's looking like it's at least 4 years old or more which still isn't shabby. And I haven't had any issues yet with it going dead on me. That said mine is an Energi model that I keep plugged in and it does top off the 12v battery while plugged in.

[fbov]

21 hours ago, cr08 said:

12v battery life I don't think there's any good numbers... classic 'average lifetime' of 12v batteries in any vehicle.

We've seen 12v battery life follow the classic pattern vis a vie climate. My 2013 still had the original battery at trade-in last year, while folks in Arizona (where the AVTA life test occurred) only get 2 years. AVTA tested 4 2013 C-Max. By March, 2015, all had new batteries, at 50-60Kmiles into a 160K mile test. @J-Max car spent most of its time in Wisconsin, so likely original. 

 

And for those with problems, it's useful to look at service needs of other hybrids. These early Fords were nearly bulletproof... nearly, given the tranny issue. 

Frank

Edited April 17, 2021 by fbov