2013 SEL 70k miles Energi

[jbird8675309]

 

Hi selling my 2013 Cmax SEL Energi tuxedo black with black interior for around 6500.  Accepting offers.

Located in Attleboro Massachusetts.  I have it up on Facebook.

I am second owner car was originally leased for first 20K miles then was bought by me and driven 50K miles well taken care of and fully loaded. Clean title no leaks no error codes no check engine lights Condition is 8.5 to 9
Self Park Assist

Backup camera front and back parking sensors

Full leather
Heated seats
Just spent 2000 on the following work.
Replaced freshly new at 65k miles tires with 80k thread Sumitomo HTR Enhanced LX2 tires.
Replaced all new brakes, Powerstop K6477 drilled, slotted rotors with Powerstop Z23 Evolution ceramic brake pads.
Royal Purple synthetic Oil and oil filter since 20k miles
K&N Air filter
Cabin Air filter
Replaced 12V battery with it Hawk Odyssey extreme.
Silicone Rain X wiper blades
Husky floor mats front and back with AVS rainguards.
Converted rear outside bulbs to LED lights.
 I also have a level 2 charger if your interested.

pm me if your interested can send some pics.

Here is my Facebook link.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/475802916420930/

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by jbird8675309
Added more info

[jbird8675309]

Vehicle sold for 6k.  Very happy with that.  Glad to sell it.  I Did like the concept fun car to drive and was decent on fuel economy.  Had alot going for it just wasn't that big enough hit on sales.

[bigqueue]

On 2/29/2020 at 6:03 AM, jbird8675309 said:

Vehicle sold for 6k.  Very happy with that.  Glad to sell it.  I Did like the concept fun car to drive and was decent on fuel economy.  Had alot going for it just wasn't that big enough hit on sales.

 

Congrats on selling it. It is indeed a nice car, and sadly an unloved one....and this is why prices are depressed when compared with other Hybrid autos.

I would like to say it is because of the early Transmission reliability, but I don't find many people who even know this issue existed (beyond the owners who were burned by it) and so it must be something else.

 

As a Ford stock holder, it bugs me that the company was not able to effectively market a car with such great utility.

[plus 3 golfer]

23 hours ago, bigqueue said:

 

Congrats on selling it. It is indeed a nice car, and sadly an unloved one....and this is why prices are depressed when compared with other Hybrid autos.

I would like to say it is because of the early Transmission reliability, but I don't find many people who even know this issue existed (beyond the owners who were burned by it) and so it must be something else.

 

As a Ford stock holder, it bugs me that the company was not able to effectively market a car with such great utility.

Agree, transmission issue had virtually nothing to do poor sales and value.  Ford’s 1) two blunders in getting the EPA numbers right, 2) poor performance of SYNC, and 3) many early CSPs and Recalls requiring many trips to dealer were “3 strikes” against the C-Max which no marketing effort could overcome.  Sales plummeted. Also, see my most after the second FE adjustment.  Although original owners were given compensation for the two FE adjustments, it wasn’t nearly enough to cover loss in resale value.  
 

Had the 47/47/47 original EPA MPGs been correct, (which were corrected twice - 2013 and 2014) to current 42/37/40 numbers - a 15% decline in overall FE savings from original,  I believe the C-Max Hybrid sales would have continued at high levels even with falling gas prices in the early years (FE savings a less important variable in the purchase decision). Looking at the chart below, you can “see” the sharp drop in sales after the corrections.  The other two strikes were mitigated / “fixed” by MY 2014/15.  And,  absent these strikes, the value of used C-Max hybrids would likely be higher now.

 

      

Edited March 2, 2020 by Plus 3 Golfer

[raadsel]

2 hours ago, Plus 3 Golfer said:

Agree, transmission issue had virtually nothing to do poor sales and value.  Ford’s 1) two blunders in getting the EPA numbers right, 2) poor performance of SYNC, and 3) many early CSPs and Recalls requiring many trips to dealer were “3 strikes” against the C-Max which no marketing effort could overcome.  Sales plummeted. Also, see my most after the second FE adjustment.  Although original owners were given compensation for the two FE adjustments, it wasn’t nearly enough to cover loss in resale value.  
 

Had the 47/47/47 original EPA MPGs been correct, (which were corrected twice - 2013 and 2014) to current 42/37/40 numbers - a 15% decline in overall FE savings from original,  I believe the C-Max Hybrid sales would have continued at high levels even with falling gas prices in the early years (FE savings a less important variable in the purchase decision). Looking at the chart below, you can “see” the sharp drop in sales after the corrections.  The other two strikes were mitigated / “fixed” by MY 2014/15.  And,  absent these strikes, the value of used C-Max hybrids would likely be higher now.

 

      

 

One other issue, that had nothing to do with Ford, was that gas prices tumbled (and have stayed low) around a year after the C-Max were released. With gas prices in some locations down to $1.50/gallon, hybrids in general were not selling, not only the C-Max.

[bigqueue]

1 hour ago, raadsel said:

 

One other issue, that had nothing to do with Ford, was that gas prices tumbled (and have stayed low) around a year after the C-Max were released. With gas prices in some locations down to $1.50/gallon, hybrids in general were not selling, not only the C-Max.

 

I know what you are talking about, but the resale value of just about any Prius is right up there....so gas prices can't be the answer. Honda's Insight is also selling at higher prices, even though they tend to have an oil consumption problem in a couple of years because of defective piston rings. (Again, I don't think most people know about that)

 

So yes....lower gas prices affect prices, but I would think it would have a similar affect across all high fuel economy cars.

 

[plus 3 golfer]

3 hours ago, bigqueue said:

 

I know what you are talking about, but the resale value of just about any Prius is right up there....so gas prices can't be the answer. Honda's Insight is also selling at higher prices, even though they tend to have an oil consumption problem in a couple of years because of defective piston rings. (Again, I don't think most people know about that)

 

So yes....lower gas prices affect prices, but I would think it would have a similar affect across all high fuel economy cars.

 

Yes, but I think the point is that after Ford's adjusted EPA numbers, the fuel savings $ were a lot less than a prospective buyer would have expected to see from original numbers.  So, they would buy a Prius or Honda Insight and enjoy more FE savings and avoid the negatives of the C-Max at that time (read JD Power and Consumer Report customers' ratings / satisfaction surveys at that time) - points 2 and 3 in my previous post.  I doubt most consumers actually test drove a C-Max after the correct numbers in mid 2014.  So, a prospective consumer would likely pick the Prius / Insight.   IMO, the C-Max looses in MPG but the driving experience of the C-Max far exceeds the Prius and Insight at that time.  I test drove a Prius models for several years prior to buying the C-Max hoping that the driver experience of a Prius would change.  It never did and I bought the C-Max.

 

And of course, Ford did little to change the perception of the C-Max to the consumer after the correct numbers.  How does Ford now change consumer perception that one should forget about FE comparisons and base ones buying decision on it's a better car than the Prius V in virtually all other aspects but FE.  Ford initial attack / marketing campaign of beating the Prius in FE with clever ads / commercials is at fault not declining gas prices.

[fbov]

4 hours ago, bigqueue said:

resale value of just about any (Toyota) is right up there ...

Toyota treats Prius like a brand, not a car model that can disappear.

Ford treated C-Max like a cash grab that went south when the EPA issues broke. Remember how well they promoted it? I think we saw 1 or 2 ads.... Up to three now for the Escape... base car. 

 

Frank

[jestevens]

This was at the same time when the Chevy Dealer near me was advertising the Colorado pickup getting 35MPG .. also dubious.  I think they pretty much just wanted the government grant money to develop the HF35.  The C-MAX beats the Prius V in almost every category - but they had lots of Focus, Escapes and F-150s to sell..plus my C-MAX rarely sees the service bay. 

 

The MPG is great, but not the only reason I've been driving hybrids for more than 10 years now.  The cars are powerful, efficient, quiet and typically have up-level trim to counter the expensive price tag if you were to buy new..low mileage used is a much better deal.

 

I used to like the Sonata Hybrid as well but after problem with oil pump and substandard HV power relay, no thanks - plus Hyundai decided to mate the hybrid drivetrain to a six speed rather than a CVT - it's so annoying when the power abruptly cuts out because of too much torque.

 

Toyota cars routinely have over 300Kmi on them - when I traded in my Gen II 2007 Prius for the CMAX someone moving up from a Gen I Prius bought it off the dealer lot the next day.

Edited March 3, 2020 by jestevens

[bigqueue]

On 3/2/2020 at 4:52 PM, fbov said:

Toyota treats Prius like a brand, not a car model that can disappear.

Ford treated C-Max like a cash grab that went south when the EPA issues broke. Remember how well they promoted it? I think we saw 1 or 2 ads.... Up to three now for the Escape... base car. 

 

Frank

 

This I agree with......I don't think Ford promoted it well. I was NOT a hybrid buyer back in 2013 because I thought they were too expensive and the extra complexity would make them less reliable than an uber small 4-cyl which would get decent mileage. (I still feel that way but the CMAX I bought was so cheap) But what I remember is not really knowing about the CMAX......I don't think Ford promoted it very much, and I think you saw the same.

 

-Quentin

[fbov]

3 hours ago, bigqueue said:

... I was NOT a hybrid buyer back in 2013 ... less reliable than ... small 4-cyl which would get decent mileage.

Neither was I. We inherited the C-Max in 2013 from my in-laws. My wife had gotten tired of her old Volvo and shopped new cars just a couple years earlier. She wanted a hybrid (the in-laws had a Prius at the time) but talking with knowledgeable people, the consensus was what you suggest; get an efficient conventional drivetrain. We got a Hyundai Elantra... the only other car to have it's EPA mileage numbers downgraded. In fairness to that Elantra, I was able to achieve EPA Highway rating when driving without the car's owner.  

 

Then we started to see Li-ion HVBs, and the landscape shifted. The electric side was now as reliable as the gas side, and with sizable electric motors, cars like the C-Max can be very efficient AND very fun to drive. 

 

The wife traded the Elantra for a 2016 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Limited. Conventional 6-speed transmission with a low-speed motor and belt-driven generator, rather than a power-split eCVT. Variable valve timing allows the engine to use "Atkinson mode" when that's beneficial. This is a hybrid that does better than C-Max on the highway; their super-low Cd claims might be valid. 

 

Have fun,

Frank

[plus 3 golfer]

9 hours ago, bigqueue said:

 

This I agree with......I don't think Ford promoted it well. I was NOT a hybrid buyer back in 2013 because I thought they were too expensive and the extra complexity would make them less reliable than an uber small 4-cyl which would get decent mileage. (I still feel that way but the CMAX I bought was so cheap) But what I remember is not really knowing about the CMAX......I don't think Ford promoted it very much, and I think you saw the same.

 

-Quentin

Ford did promote it well (the reason I test drove it) early on - the performance both power (fun to drive) and fuel economy of the C-Max beating the Prius heavily on TV in fall 2012 (see sample video below).   Problem was owners and especially reviewers couldn't get 47 mpg.  Ford's defense was basically this in Dec. 2012: https://www.mlive.com/auto/2012/12/ford_not_shying_away_from_mpg.html  Even knowing I wouldn't get 47 mpg, after my test drive buying the C-Max was an easy decision over the Prius.

 

Sales were still good through summer of 2013 but then Ford revealed that their EPA FE numbers were actually wrong.  Then, again in mid 2014 Ford admitted another error in their numbers.  It was too late, as sales plummeted after both FE downgrades.  The second video was there new promotion in 2014 touting range not FE but the damage was done with the two FE downgrades. Ford promotions of the C-Max was virtually done.  Ford was not going to then promote it as a "brand" like a Mustang or Prius.  After the blunders it's best to move on.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Plus 3 Golfer

[bigqueue]

4 hours ago, Plus 3 Golfer said:

Ford did promote it well (the reason I test drove it) early on - the performance both power (fun to drive) and fuel economy of the C-Max beating the Prius heavily on TV in fall 2012 (see sample video below).   Problem was owners and especially reviewers couldn't get 47 mpg.  Ford's defense was basically this in Dec. 2012: https://www.mlive.com/auto/2012/12/ford_not_shying_away_from_mpg.html  Even knowing I wouldn't get 47 mpg, after my test drive buying the C-Max was an easy decision over the Prius.

 

 

 

Wow...I have NEVER seen those commercials, but then I never really watch TV. My perspective comes from my telling people about the 2016 I bought a few months ago, and not a single person has even heard of the car.....I am amazed! So I guess I assumed it was not promoted.....if it was, it clearly wasn't able to post into the mind of any of the people I know. (Literally....no one I have told knows about the car)

 

-Quentin

[jestevens]

The only reason I knew about it is that we had C-MAX in our vehicle fleet at work..the very first time I drove it I hated it - the engine was whining like crazy because the SOC must have been low - second time I drove it was much better - then I test drove the Prius V, with all intention of trading up from my Prius and I was really disappointed - even the sales lady could see it - the C-MAX was a much nicer car with a lot more performance.  I really think they had too many focus, escape and F-150s to sell.  People around here aren't keen on hybrid cars - they wouldn't believe me when I told them I was routinely getting 45-49MPG with the Prius.

[plus 3 golfer]

5 hours ago, bigqueue said:

 

Wow...I have NEVER seen those commercials, but then I never really watch TV. My perspective comes from my telling people about the 2016 I bought a few months ago, and not a single person has even heard of the car.....I am amazed! So I guess I assumed it was not promoted.....if it was, it clearly wasn't able to post into the mind of any of the people I know. (Literally....no one I have told knows about the car)

 

-Quentin

The early commercials ran a lot during football games (and other sporting events).  Yes, when I tell people I have a C-Max very few have ever heard of it.  The C-Max has been around in the EU since the early 2000s.  So, it was not really a "new" Ford line - just not sold in NA markets until 2013 MY and then as only a hybrid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_C-Max

[fbov]

On 3/5/2020 at 9:01 PM, Plus 3 Golfer said:

 Problem was owners and especially reviewers couldn't get 47 mpg.  Ford's defense was basically this in Dec. 2012: https://www.mlive.com/auto/2012/12/ford_not_shying_away_from_mpg.html  

Just looking back at my achieved tank mileage...

Lifetime Tank MPG vs Time.pdf

 

I immediately notice an undulating pattern that levels off as mileage increases. That's seasonal variation when I commuted, leveling off after retirement. The first winter, 2013-14, I took the highway and got >35 MPG. The next winter, I took back roads and did better,  ~40 MPG. Both summers, I was routinely in the 50-55 MPG range. One long summer trip drops to 38 MPG... due to setting cruise to 72 MPH. 

 

I'd say Ford's response wasn't far off, except they both made a mistake, and did something unreasonable qualifying the C-Max using Fusion data. 

 

FWIW, my first tank in the Escape went 500 miles (37.3 MPG). The second is looking like 550 miles, the only changes being 91E0 fuel and Eco mode as soon as I remember to press the button twice. Not sure Eco does anything unique. It does shift the regen/EV break point toward greater regen, and make it a little easier to keep throttle low, but practice does that in Normal. 

 

Have fun,

Frank

[bigqueue]

7 hours ago, fbov said:

FWIW, my first tank in the Escape went 500 miles (37.3 MPG). The second is looking like 550 miles, the only changes being 91E0 fuel and Eco mode as soon as I remember to press the button twice.

 

What do you mean "press it twice"? Is that different from the CMAX? I only pushed it once, and never again. (So far)

 

-Quentin

[fbov]

The Escape defaults to Normal every time you shut down. 

[jmcgliss]

Somehow we missed the existence of the C-Max until 2018 when my wife needed a more efficient commuter car than her thirsty high-mileage Subaru. We remember noticing 2013-2014 C-Maxes mainly because of the ice-blue metallic color available then. 

 

All Ford needed to do since 2015 is refer people to Fuelly.com. Graphs clearly show many people getting high miles per gallon in real-world conditions. Every make of hybrid will show a bell-shaped mileage curve based on driver usage, correct?  Educating the consumer would have helped overcome the 2013 setbacks.

[bigqueue]

50 minutes ago, jmcgliss said:

All Ford needed to do since 2015 is refer people to Fuelly.com. Graphs clearly show many people getting high miles per gallon in real-world conditions. Every make of hybrid will show a bell-shaped mileage curve based on driver usage, correct?  Educating the consumer would have helped overcome the 2013 setbacks.

 

I know what you are saying, but I don't see incredible numbers on Fuelly for the CMAX.....don't get me wrong, they are good....but what I see is basically a 40MPG car with outliers on both sides. Yes, it is possible to get 50MPG, but in very specific situations, which is how I interpret the graph below. Oh, and this is what I seem to get when the weather is not that cold.

 

BTW: My car does not register more than 99.9MPG, so some of those shown here over that are clearly Energi just driving around in all EV mode....which means very short trips, which is very a-typical and probably nothing like the EPA testing.

 

 

Here is a Honda Insight for a comparison:

 

Yes, the CMAX is a bigger car...so it makes sense. But I don't see the high mileage showing up on Fuelly.com.

 

[SnowStorm]

4 hours ago, bigqueue said:

BTW: My car does not register more than 99.9MPG

Really?  My 2013 goes to 999.9 mpg.  I wonder when that change happened and why - I see you have a 2016.

[kyledamron1]

The thing about Fuelly is that it will include the diesel and gas models as well as the hybrid/plug-in variants. It doesn't separate them into different categories.

 

[fbov]

No? I had no problem isolating the seven Escape Hybrid tanks. 

Frank

[bigqueue]

On 3/9/2020 at 1:41 PM, kyledamron1 said:

The thing about Fuelly is that it will include the diesel and gas models as well as the hybrid/plug-in variants. It doesn't separate them into different categories.

 

 

Here is the filter that pulled out the 717 2.0L 4-Cyl ELECTRIC/GAS......which still looks like a 40MPG car (on average) to me.

 

[jestevens]

I routinely average about 40MPG, mostly around town driving during week with highway driving on weekend.  This is the problem FORD had when they initially claimed C-MAX got 60MPG .. thing is - the BEST average I could get with my HHR was 25MPG, my Blazer used a quarter tank of gas everywhere I went.  The Prius did better, I could average 45-50MPG but that was not crossover.  So C-MAX is still roughly double the MPG of any other crossover.  Plus, it's also quiet, powerful, with nice trim .. my car was the ONLY C-MAX on the dealer lot and I didn't see too many hybrids when I needed emergency tire swap in MD last weekend.  People just don't believe it, or don't care.  If you really stretch it and the geography/climate is right, some of the members here HAVE been able to do 50-60MPG.  Monday, with warm weather I was able to get 50MPG but that was on one isolated trip.  I like the torque too much..

Edited March 11, 2020 by jestevens