mikekoz Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 (edited) We have a 2013 Cmax Energi that is about 6 years old. We bought it while Ford was closing out the 2013's and got a pretty good deal on it. When all this Covid crap started, I stopped driving it and it stayed in the driveway for over 3 months. Last month when I started driving to work a few days a week, the first time I went to start the car it was dead as a doorknob! This has happened a few times, but normally after I jump start it, then drive it a bit, everything returns to normal. I just figured it was dead because I had not driven or started it in 3 months. Last week when I was going to take it to work, it was dead again. I connected our portable charger to it to jump the battery, and it started. I only let it run for about 5 minutes or so as it was really hot outside, and did not drive it. After I disconnected the battery, it went dead again. This morning I went out and the car was dead again, and I put a multitester to the terminals under the hood where I attach the jumper cables to, and it registered 2.1V. After jumping and starting the car, I drive it for about a mile or so, and after turning off the engine, the battery tested at 12.6V. The car started and the electronics seemed to work afterwards also. I will see how it is later today, but my big question is, is our 12V battery going bad? We thought we had it replaced last year, but we cannot find the receipt. Last year we had an issue where the car was dead almost every time I went to start it, and even when it did start, some of the electronics in the car like the audio system and electric windows did not work correctly. I saw on another post how to get to the battery, but apparently to get the date on the battery it has to be removed, and I just do not feel comfortable doing that. Any ideas??? Edited August 2, 2020 by mikekoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-MaxA2 Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 So how old is the battery? Sounds like an old battery that just died when not charged. Get a new one; $130 from my dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowStorm Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 Its sounds like you have the infamous dead 12v battery problem where something stays on (or turns on) when the car is parked and runs down the battery. If the voltage doesn't drop too low, everything starts up and you never know about it. Each time it happens though, the 12v battery gets degraded further. You might see it at 12.6 volts but it won't stay there long. I expect you will need a new 12v battery regardless of its age. If it turns out to be old/original, then maybe you'll be OK with just a new one. If it's only a year old then make sure the various Ford TSBs or CSPs have been done (if any apply to the Energi - some don't). Either way, make sure they reset the battery age parameter in the car when the battery is replaced. Then you might check the voltage twice a day when not driven to see what happens. If the new battery isn't staying charged, get a battery maintainer. Bill-N 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted August 2, 2020 Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 You need to charge the battery with a battery charger until the charger indicates a full charge as even driving for 1 hour will put very little charge into the battery. Go to Ford QuickLane (no appointment needed) and they will check your battery for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikekoz Posted August 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2020 Thanks everybody. I am also going to call them tomorrow to see if they have a record of replacing the battery. I have looked everywhere, but do not see any receipt or paperwork for a battery. Will this charge the battery? I use this to jump start the car. You cannot see them, but it has two jumper cables attached to it on the other end. My guess is no as it has a battery built into it, and it would run down long before 12 hours, if that is what is needed to fully charge the car battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted August 3, 2020 Report Share Posted August 3, 2020 No, that’s not a charger. Look for a charger that is at least 5 A, 8 or 10.would likely charge alittle faster. Make sure it is a fully automatic, smart charger. If battery voltage was that low, it will likely take at least 10-12 hours and maybe more to reach full charge. A new Motorcraft battery has a capacity of around 43 Ah. My battery is 5 years old and it’s full capacity is now around 28 Ah or about 64% of its new capacity after I fully charge it on my battery charger. BTW, I always put tire and battery receipts in glove box so I can easily find them after 5 years.? C-MaxA2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-MaxA2 Posted August 3, 2020 Report Share Posted August 3, 2020 Great advice: 'BTW, I always put tire and battery receipts in glove box so I can easily find them after 5 years.?' I tape a sign on my batteries with the date and price of the battery as a reminder when I open the hood. Sometimes time flies and I'll see the date there and go 'opps - it's been 5 years already!?'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikekoz Posted August 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2020 I looked in our glove box and came up empty. I also logged into my Ford account online and did not find any record there, so I am guessing the electrical problems the car was having last year were fixed without replacing the battery. I also found a few videos on YouTube where people had the same problem. Right before it happens, the audio system flakes out. That has happened to me every time this has happened. Some say that this is a problem with the ACM and to pull fuse 79. Apparently, when this happens and the car is turned off, the ACM still draws power from the 12V battery and drains the battery. I had to pull that fuse and another a few times to get the audio system working again, but never realized that the ACM would do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted August 3, 2020 Report Share Posted August 3, 2020 I thought my C-Max was immune to the radio / ACM / APIM issue but had my radio locked up once about a year or so ago. Pulled fuse 79 and everything has been normal since. The fact that you haven't been driving the C-Max much in the last few months likely drained the battery to a very low State of Charge just from normal drain when car is off. Thus, it likely wouldn't take much additional drain (say from ACM) to yield the no-start condition. Again I can't say enough about getting the FORScan App and an OBDII Elm327 adapter to monitor PIDs including 12 V battery SOC, tire pressure, 12 V battery charging voltage, check / reset 12 V battery age, and other data. Four times in the last 5 years or so, I noted a loss in tire pressure in one tire of just a few PSI. Upon examination of the tire, there was a screw in the tire. JAZ and C-MaxA2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikekoz Posted August 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2020 On 8/2/2020 at 9:18 PM, Plus 3 Golfer said: No, that’s not a charger. Look for a charger that is at least 5 A, 8 or 10.would likely charge alittle faster. Make sure it is a fully automatic, smart charger. If battery voltage was that low, it will likely take at least 10-12 hours and maybe more to reach full charge. A new Motorcraft battery has a capacity of around 43 Ah. My battery is 5 years old and it’s full capacity is now around 28 Ah or about 64% of its new capacity after I fully charge it on my battery charger. BTW, I always put tire and battery receipts in glove box so I can easily find them after 5 years.? I think getting a battery charger is a good idea, even if I need a new battery now. I have looked at a bunch on Amazon. Do you, or anybody out there, have any suggestions? Is one any better than the other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted August 4, 2020 Report Share Posted August 4, 2020 I bought a microprocessor smart charger maybe 10 years ago: Schumacher 8 A / 2 A. The link below looks very similar and the specs are the same. Looks like you can get it for around $50. IIRC, it should charge a dead C-Max 43 Ah battery to around 80% SOC in about 4 hours. The remaining charge is applied by reducing current flow from the 8 A down to the 2 amps until SOC is somewhere around 90%-95%, maybe another 6-8 hours. Then for the last 5%, the charger should go into a maintenance mode which could take another 4-6 hours to reach 100%. The few times I've had a dead battery (assume virtually discharged), it took over 16 hours to fully charge. I would not buy a charger much bigger than 8 A as the "ideal" charging current is between 10%-30% of the C rate of the battery (current draw to discharge battery in one hour). So, the C rate of the C-Max battery is 43 A. Thus, the ideal charger output should be between 4 A and 12 A. Even is one has a vehicle with a larger battery, this charger will be OK for batteries as large as around 80 Ah. You can price 12 A chargers but it will likely be at least 1.5 to 2 X more than the 8A charger. It will cut the charge time down though. https://www.batterychargers.com/en/products/battery-chargers/sc1363-8a-612v-fully-automatic-battery-charger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikekoz Posted August 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2020 14 hours ago, Plus 3 Golfer said: I bought a microprocessor smart charger maybe 10 years ago: Schumacher 8 A / 2 A. The link below looks very similar and the specs are the same. Looks like you can get it for around $50. IIRC, it should charge a dead C-Max 43 Ah battery to around 80% SOC in about 4 hours. The remaining charge is applied by reducing current flow from the 8 A down to the 2 amps until SOC is somewhere around 90%-95%, maybe another 6-8 hours. Then for the last 5%, the charger should go into a maintenance mode which could take another 4-6 hours to reach 100%. The few times I've had a dead battery (assume virtually discharged), it took over 16 hours to fully charge. I would not buy a charger much bigger than 8 A as the "ideal" charging current is between 10%-30% of the C rate of the battery (current draw to discharge battery in one hour). So, the C rate of the C-Max battery is 43 A. Thus, the ideal charger output should be between 4 A and 12 A. Even is one has a vehicle with a larger battery, this charger will be OK for batteries as large as around 80 Ah. You can price 12 A chargers but it will likely be at least 1.5 to 2 X more than the 8A charger. It will cut the charge time down though. https://www.batterychargers.com/en/products/battery-chargers/sc1363-8a-612v-fully-automatic-battery-charger Thank you. I was actually looking at that one. The only thing it did not seem to have that I was looking for was a way to put a quick connect\disconnect attachment on it. It would be used outdoors as our garage is used for storage. I wanted a way of running a cable out to the car from the garage. Putting a quick disconnect on the terminals under the hood then running it out the front of the car with the hood down seemed like a good idea in case it rained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowbar Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 I bought a Noco Genius5 and I'm very happy with it. There are numerous options and connecters available for it. Got mine through Amazon. https://no.co/genius5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikekoz Posted September 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 I put off buying a charger until I was able to take the car to Ford, which was this morn. We did get a new battery for it in July of 2019 and it is bad already. The guy at Ford said it went bad because the car sat in the driveway for three months without being driven. This does not sound right to me! Our Edge also sat for several months before being driven and it was fine. I have been driving since I was 18 and I have never had a battery go bad this quick, NEVER. I am 60 now! I know everybody says "they do not make things like they used to", but really!!?? They are replacing the battery under warranty so cost is not the issue here. I guess I should buy a charger, but now we are considering just selling the car and I do not want to put a lot of money into this thing. At the same time, I do not want this to happen again. Is the person at Ford correct? Can the 12V battery go bad because the car is not driven very often? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikekoz Posted September 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) On 8/17/2020 at 9:15 PM, lowbar said: I bought a Noco Genius5 and I'm very happy with it. There are numerous options and connecters available for it. Got mine through Amazon. Quote https://no.co/genius5 I actually looked at that one, and the Genius 10 and am considering one or the other. How long does the 5 take to fully charge your battery? Edited September 1, 2020 by mikekoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 1) 12 V batteries like to be fully charged. 2) The C-Max charging algorithm does not act as a "fast" charger (takes long time to replace several Ah of use). 3) Allowing C-Max to set for extended periods of time drains battery. 4) It's possible dealer did not reset battery age parameter such that the PCM believed the max. capacity (Ah) your 2019 battery was significantly lower than the actual new battery capacity. Thus, battery will be charged at a lower voltage than it should be charged at. So, it's very likely that given the above or combination of the above, your new 12 V battery was always at a very low state of charge because it wasn't driven very often for long times. So, yes allowing the 12 V battery to be at a very low SOC and perhaps charging at too low a voltage can cause sulfation and premature failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikekoz Posted September 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 19 minutes ago, Plus 3 Golfer said: 1) 12 V batteries like to be fully charged. 2) The C-Max charging algorithm does not act as a "fast" charger (takes long time to replace several Ah of use). 3) Allowing C-Max to set for extended periods of time drains battery. 4) It's possible dealer did not reset battery age parameter such that the PCM believed the max. capacity (Ah) your 2019 battery was significantly lower than the actual new battery capacity. Thus, battery will be charged at a lower voltage than it should be charged at. So, it's very likely that given the above or combination of the above, your new 12 V battery was always at a very low state of charge because it wasn't driven very often for long times. So, yes allowing the 12 V battery to be at a very low SOC and perhaps charging at too low a voltage can cause sulfation and premature failure. Thank you. I think I need to actually ask them tomorrow or Thursday when they get the new battery if they reset the battery age parameter. I will ASSume they do that, but you never know! ;p). Looks like I also need to invest in a battery charger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plus 3 golfer Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 You can reset battery age by the method in this link below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowbar Posted September 6, 2020 Report Share Posted September 6, 2020 Quote On 9/1/2020 at 2:07 PM, mikekoz said: I actually looked at that one, and the Genius 10 and am considering one or the other. How long does the 5 take to fully charge your battery? On 9/1/2020 at 2:07 PM, mikekoz said: Obviously it varies by the state of the battery. I've charged it once and it took about 24 hours before it was fully charged. Once the bulk charge is complete it does a slower optimization charge. BTW, it is very easy to connect using the positive and ground posts under the hood. Keep in mind these cars have a lot of electronics that draw on the battery even when the car is off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestevens Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 Well I finally received my first unexpected completely dead 12V battery this last Saturday morning with the change to colder weather. Luckily a friend was able to drive me to Autozone to buy a jump pack, I bought the small 800amp one and it worked. I left the car running for about an hour to charge back up. Thankfully the 12V still seems to be holding a charge -- we had another day of cold weather Sunday and it was still able to start. Have no idea why it would have happened other than driving the car only about once or twice a week due to COVID. The last time I had it out prior to that was Wednesday, where it had a nice 1.5 hour drive but I did have the headlights on. I'll have to pull my paperwork for when I had battery changed last time, maybe it's longer than I remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grege Posted September 22, 2020 Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 Some of the cmaxes are known to have a parasitic draw on the 12V battery; usually a software update/change fixes it (earlier models are more plagued, but even 2017s; there might be a tsb for it, but it's known within the dealer-help lines). Generally, driving-to-recharge a battery usually takes driving the vehicle (with ICE) for around 20 minutes at or above 40mph. Greg jestevens 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestevens Posted September 22, 2020 Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 In 7 years of owning this car I've never had the 12V drain problem before so I am thinking maybe I'm just not driving the car often enough. Will keep an eye on it. grege 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grege Posted September 22, 2020 Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 7-year old 12v is a decent run, but one dying on me would warrant a replacement. I'm not as anal as a coworker who replaces theirs every 3 years regardless. : 0 Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbov Posted September 25, 2020 Report Share Posted September 25, 2020 On 9/22/2020 at 6:53 AM, jestevens said: In 7 years of owning this car I've never had the 12V drain problem Where do you live? We just replaced the 12v in my daughter's 2012 Subaru last weekend. It looked original. She lives in Vermont. At 7 years, you and she did well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestevens Posted December 10, 2020 Report Share Posted December 10, 2020 On 9/25/2020 at 3:56 PM, fbov said: Where do you live? We just replaced the 12v in my daughter's 2012 Subaru last weekend. It looked original. She lives in Vermont. At 7 years, you and she did well. Sorry didn't see this until now. Central Pennsylvania -- when it died of old age (around 7 years) I had to beg the Ford dealer to change it as their battery test did not show it failing. ..and changing it resolved all the funky issues. I did have an issue with the new 12V being dead, but that was just because I wasn't driving the car enough due to COVID. I went and bought a jump pack just in case but only had to use it that one time so far. I had the same thing with my HHR, I don't think I ever bought a battery for that car in the 6-7 years I owned it. Kind of a pain that engineers put the battery in the trunk but it seems to preserve the life of the battery better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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