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Tire rotation


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39 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   Arthur

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 11:43 AM

Don't only rotate the tires, get the car lined up 4 wheel alignment, I knew but didn't do it for 8000, so now I have 'cupped' tires, (rear)

dumb me, I have never purchased a new car that did not need 4 wheel alignment, and this was one of them, now I have a lot of noise and it is a pain in the ear, but I'll wear them out before I buy new just to punish my self.

 









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#22 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 02:41 PM

All this data is a RECOMMENDATION.  It's generalized information. Tires are subject to driving habits, tire pressures and balance. If you drive more highway than city, you can wait longer to rotate. If you drive more city, you'll find you need to do it more frequently.  Do you see that I'm avoiding time or miles. It's all based on your use, pressures, and driving habits.

 

Me personally, currently run 50 PSI in all 4 tires. I drive mostly city (70%-30%) and don't brake late or turn too fast.

 My schedule is set at 5K miles for now. I do all my own work, so it's easy for me to look at my tires and make decisions on what they need. Most owners neglect the balance aspect of tires and just rotate them. They don't worry about tire pressures and run whatever the shop sets them at. Most don't even check them. If they do are they set properly ? Is it according to

your driving habits and tire requirements, or just some random number they use ?

 

 Don't let some shop make these choices for you. It's something you need to control so you can get an idea of what needs to be done and when. Most shops don't see the same car all the time, so it's hard for them to give proper tire advise. Most drivers get the standard RECOMMENDATION and tire pressure settings.

 Only to find out to late, this isn't working and the tires are wearing bad or have now become scalped/cupped and need replacement.

 

Proper pressures, rotation and balance are all part of tire care. Leave one out and you'll find tire problems, but probably to late to save an otherwise good tire. Get a plan set and stick with it. Check the tire pressure at least once a month. For the 225/50/17's, 50 PSI is working perfect for my car and driving habits.

 

Here's my tires @ 3500 miles.

Attached File  DSC_0001.jpg   196.96KB   0 downloadsAttached File  DSC_0002.jpg   232.56KB   0 downloads


Edited by drdiesel1, 29 September 2013 - 02:49 PM.

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#23 OFFLINE   boilermax

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 12:26 PM

I just did the first oil change and tire rotation on my wife's C-Max in preparation for a lengthy road trip.  We've had the car since Nov. '12 and it has about 4800 miles on it.  Since she'll put only 6k miles per year on the car, I plan on an annual oil change and tire rotation schedule.

 

But I don't understand the need to rotate the tires.  They rotate every time she drives the car! :secret:



#24 OFFLINE   ArizonaEnergi

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 12:46 PM

I'm at about 6,500 miles and one year and have been thinking about doing my own tire rotations, until I saw the recommended pattern in the manual.  That would be difficult to do without multiple jack stands or jacks or, like I have, a spare tire, which will help but it will still be a PITA!  Think I will wait for 10,000, who knows, I may be hit a meteor and avoid rotating them altogether!

 

Attached File  Tire Rotation.jpg   21.24KB   0 downloads

 

 



#25 OFFLINE   obob

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 01:36 PM

I generally replace my tires way before they officially need replacement.  The performance at 50% tread is not that great.  On my last vehicle, a minivan, for the first set of tires I rotated once and then replaced all four.  For the second set I basically did not do rotations, but replaced the front tires at around 50% tread.

 

Link that describes two schools of thought on rotation.

http://autos.yahoo.c.../ques100_1.html

 

Here is a link with a type of wear that might lead to me getting a rotation or two if I notice it.

http://www.tyredamag...ent/view/26/26/


Edited by obob, 28 December 2013 - 01:38 PM.


#26 OFFLINE   ScubaDadMiami

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 02:09 PM

The C-MAX is so cheap to drive that I am willing to blow the money to get The Works (an oil change and tire rotation) at the midpoint for regularly scheduled maintenance (5,000, 15,000, 25,000. . .), I've decided.  Either it will give me good tire life with even wear, or I'll waste a little money that I didn't need to spend. 


Edited by ScubaDadMiami, 28 December 2013 - 02:13 PM.


#27 OFFLINE   wab

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 11:20 AM

Not rotating your tires is the best way to figure out that you need an alignment.

AT LEAST it was for a friend.

He missed his first rotation on his new civic, came back from a long vacation with 2 wore out tires.

They tried to deny warranty

(because he hadn’t rotated which would have moved the wearing tires to the front)

till he found a TSB about some (his) civics needing some rear suspension parts replaced, he got new tires, new parts and a 4 wheel alignment.

 

Which brings me to our cmax, IT DEFINITELY needs a front end alignment.



#28 OFFLINE   fbov

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 08:47 PM

I generally replace my tires way before they officially need replacement.  The performance at 50% tread is not that great...

This is both very good advice, and completely false... depending on your goal.

 

If your goal is the best snow traction and hydroplaning resistance, replacing tires at 50% tread depth (about 2/3 of usable tread) makes sense. But that's where it ends.

 

Anyone remember the Bridgestone commercials where they compared new tires with half-worn tires to show they made a quality product? The premise was that the new tire's performance was superior to the worn tire, and if you bought into that premise, they had you hook, line and sinker. The premise is false in all but the few situations listed above.

 

Passenger car tires must be shaved to 1/2 tread depth before you stress their traction limits or you will "chunk" your tire. Think in terms of a tread block being ripped out of the tire, down to the cord. Instant trash. All it takes is one hot lap around a race track and you'll need a new set of tires, despite full tread. When I was racing, I had a tire shaver, and used it on my competition tires until vendors like Tire Rack realized there was an untapped market for shaved competition tires. At SCCA Solo II Nationals, the Goodrich truck had shavers set up next to their mounting/balancing equipment as every tire sold needed all three.

 

But competition isn't why we bought our C-Maxes, and in day-to-day driving, hydroplaning resistance trumps ultimate cornering force. However, that doesn't change the tire's performance profile vs. tread depth; worn tires have some advantages!

 

Have fun,

Frank



#29 OFFLINE   fflowers

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Posted 02 January 2015 - 11:12 AM

I've rotated tires twice now (per pattern in the manual) by jacking the front end onto my two jack stands and then placing the floor jack on the structural member between the rear wheels, where the differential would be on an old car.  This gets all four wheels up at the same time.  I see no damage on this center member, but am having second thoughts about using it.  Should I be jacking each rear wheel separately at the indicated positions, or is it safe to use the center point and save a little time?


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#30 OFFLINE   JAZ

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Posted 02 January 2015 - 05:43 PM

Wish I knew, but you're a lot more gutsy than me...



#31 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 02 January 2015 - 07:10 PM

I've rotated tires twice now (per pattern in the manual) by jacking the front end onto my two jack stands and then placing the floor jack on the structural member between the rear wheels, where the differential would be on an old car.  This gets all four wheels up at the same time.  I see no damage on this center member, but am having second thoughts about using it.  Should I be jacking each rear wheel separately at the indicated positions, or is it safe to use the center point and save a little time?

As long as you're using a spot that won't bend anything, you're good. I use it when not using a lift. No problem.

If you're worried about it, use a wood block between the jacks lift plate and the cross-member contact points.



#32 OFFLINE   SPL Tech

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Posted 02 January 2015 - 07:37 PM

I've had bad luck with tires in my last several vehicles, always from uneven wear.  The tires start to sound like snow tires.  I've had the alignment re-done, had suspension overhauled, and I've done rotations pretty regularly.  Every time I tried to make warranty claims, they always tell me that it doesn't cover uneven wear.  Mostly, I am told that I need to rotate  more often.

 

I got great tires from Costco, and I believe that they called for rotation at 6,000 miles, but I had the same issues there.  A mechanic recently told me that I should rotate every 3,000 miles, which sounds ridiculous to me.

 

The point is, I want to get it right on this car.  Is it because I was driving SUVs? (The only car I recall not having issues was a Lexus that was not an SUV style.)  Should I start paying for tire rotations before the scheduled 10,000 mile service?

 

I am not doing any kind of driving that should be the cause.

Next time tell them you rotate every 2000 miles and they wont use that as an excuse. Something does sound off. It's not hard to align a vehicle. With modern alignment machines, it's completely common to determine the exact alignment, toe and camber of your axles. No guessing "it looks straight" either it is or it is not, the machine will say either way. Not sure why they are having so much trouble. Maybe the toe, camber or alignment is changing over time. That is, they set it right, and then something happens and it's misaligned later.



#33 OFFLINE   SPL Tech

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Posted 02 January 2015 - 07:39 PM

Also, I dont recommend a 10k rotation either. My VW called for 10k, and I could never get the rated lifespan of the tires, not even by running them until the belt was showing.



#34 OFFLINE   fflowers

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 01:35 PM

As long as you're using a spot that won't bend anything, you're good. I use it when not using a lift. No problem.

If you're worried about it, use a wood block between the jacks lift plate and the cross-member contact points.

Thanks, drdiesel1, I'll take your advice and start using a wooden block for added protection.  Nice to know at least one other person has tried this point.


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#35 OFFLINE   pureenergi

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 12:21 PM

I just rotated tires with the criss-cross rear to front pattern by only lifting 2 wheels at a  time in 3 steps.  This is the first and probably only time I will do it, as Costco will be selling me their Michelin Energy Savers when their next sale rolls around in a couple months and rotating for me.

 

1.  Jack up one side, move front to rear and rear to front

2.  Jack up other side, do the same

3.  Jack up front from both sides, swap the tires across

 

I don't have a flat enough driveway or equipment to get all 4 wheels up.  This takes a little longer, but feels a little safer.  Standard safety precautions were followed - wheel chocks, I used jack stands in addition to the jacks (one heavy floor jack, one scissor jack) and put an old wheel/tire under the middle of each side of the car in case jacks failed.  I made a sweet jacking puck from a wood block where each corner fits between the "castles" on the floor jack to prevent slipping and sliding, and I cut a groove with a Sawzall in the middle to fit around the pinch weld.  Cut across the grain to prevent cracking.  Worked perfectly - better than a polyurethane puck IMHO - and free with scrap wood.  People who have jacked up the car before will recognize the "key" that got cut into the wood where there's a bulge in the pinch weld in back.

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#36 OFFLINE   joe

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 03:34 PM

I have had wheel alignment done at 13K and 30K and both times the front and rear wheels were not within specs.  At 13K, when I had tires rotated, I could hear a thumping so I knew it was too late for the tires so I had them rotated back which put the cupped tires on the rear which made less noise.  By 30K, the tires were getting noisier.  So, I put new tires on (Costco), and took to dealer for alignment, which it needed.  I'm not sure if 12K or once a year will be sufficient for wheel alignment with the C-Max.  I think I will, however, rotate tires more often than 12K.



#37 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 06:18 PM

I find you need to rotate every 10K  and change direction every 20K. :)   Wheel alignment is a good Idea too. BTW you can't adjust camber on rear without replacing top support, it isn't adjustable.

 

Paul 



#38 OFFLINE   obob

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 09:07 PM

Went to the dealer today to talk to him about the tire cupping in the back.  He said I need to pay for $75 rear axle alignment for it needs alignment.  I told him that it is not adjustable and the response from the mechanic sitting next to him is that it is adjustable.  I told him I question that.  Well after more talk he said that it may be that something is bent and that would me my cost. I was wondering if I was being set up for some bigger expense.

 

My feeling is that the tire are cupping because of a design problem and I don't want to pay for an alignment.

 

I told him from my Internet research that this is a common problem.  His response was something like Internet talk is worthless acting like the all-knowing dealer.  Perhaps Friday wasn't the best day to stop by.


Edited by obob, 25 September 2015 - 09:12 PM.


#39 OFFLINE   SnowStorm

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Posted 27 September 2015 - 09:25 PM

obob,

 

To a degree, you are both right.  Rear toe is adjustable but camber is not (unless you call replacing control arms adjustable!).  I replaced mine because I had inside edge wear - read about it here (see whole topic).  I had lots of cupping too, also on the inside, but I had not rotated nearly often enough.  My Michelin dealer says that the undriven tires are prone to cupping (I've had it on our Fit too) and that rotating the cupped tires to the driven wheels should help but it can take thousands of miles.  They also say to rotate every 5,000 miles so that is what I'll do this time!  (Now that I've bought a set from them they do it for free. :) )  I doubt there is anything fundamentally "wrong" with the C-Max - except that an adjustment for rear camber would be nice.

 

joe,

 

From my experience, putting the cupped tires on the front may sound worse at first but they eventually quiet down - at least somewhat.  Keeping them on the back makes them get even worse.  Frequent rotations is certainly important.


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#40 OFFLINE   joe

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Posted 28 September 2015 - 01:03 PM

SnowStorm.  You are probably right.  I didn't keep the cupped tires on the front for very long.   But it took another 10K miles on the back before the tire noise began to grow.








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