mtberman

Update: Only change is build week is now a build day. Still no window sticker. Not sure why an 11/26 order is taking so long, but it is what it is. Regardless, I may be getting a car sooner. I needled the dealer into scouring the landscape to find one before year end, mainly so I can get a small state tax credit sooner rather than later. There were zero exact matches (gray over black, 302A + pano roof) but they switched the package to 303A and two popped up. One is 35 miles away but the dealer won't return calls. The other is a 6-7 hour drive away. They said I can go get it myself if I like. Road Trip? Model: C-Max SEL, Sterling Gray, 302A pkg + pano roof thingy Date Ordered: Saturday, 11/24/12 Promised Delivery time: 8 to 10 Weeks VIN Available: 12/13/12 Window Sticker Available: no Scheduled Build Week: 1/21/13-1/26/13 Scheduled Build Date: 1/21/13 Actual Build Date: not yet Released from Factory for Shipping: zero Estimated Delivery Date: zilch Actual Delivery Date: goose egg State: CO

If your car has the regular key, "Acc" mode is the first click and "On" mode is the second click. "On" mode means everything, including lights, climate control, wipers etc, is activated. With intelligent access, you only have "On". Pushing the button without pressing the brake pedal puts the car in "On" mode, not "Acc" mode. I couldn't find anything in the manual about Acc mode with the smart key. However, I have noticed that you can turn on the radio whenever you want, even if the car is off and the key isn't nearby. So there is that. The headlight thing only works if you've first shut the car off. Supposedly, you can pull the headlight lever toward you until it beeps and the lights will come on, and stay on for 3 minutes.

Just got back from the dealer. Asked the manager about the brochure rebate. This guy has been reliable and really seems to know his job, so I think what he told me is accurate. He began by saying "Let's look it up" and asked for the program number, my ZIP code and name. The offer popped up on his computer screen with my name on it. He looked at the details and said Yes, it's valid on a C Max. He then linked the offer to my computer record and put it on the paperwork in my file. I haven't taken delivery yet, so we'll still have to see if there's any problem. Next, he explained a little about how the offers work. With the rebate, he said they can order a car and the buyer gets the rebate when the car comes in, even if the rebate has expired by then. They call this "price protection". He said it only works of they, the dealer, put the rebate on the order and on your customer profile thing in the computer. Private cash, on the other hand, can't be used past its expiration date. So, if you haven't ordered a car and don't get one under contract by the date the rebate expires, you can't get it. But you can still use the private cash, as long as it hasn't expired. Obviously anyone who has already ordered a car would be well-advised to immediately order a C Max brochure from the Ford site, if you haven't already. You'll initially get an email that says the offer isn't good on hybrids, but a couple of weeks later you should get a written piece in the mail that is good.

I wouldn't accept "allocation" stories. Normally that's a valid reason for a delay, but not on the C Max. My dealer and others have said that the C Max qualifies for Retail Order Verification. This is a program a dealer can use to order C Maxs outside of regular allocation by proving that the order is for a "real" retail customer. Apparently Ford does this occasionally on cars that are in high demand, or which have hefty margins and are selling well. They have to make sure a few dealers don't try to take all the stock of a hot selling car. To do this, they limit each dealer to their regular allocation, but allow unlimited extra orders from any dealer, no matter how small it is, as long as they can show there's a real buyer behind each of their orders that exceeds allocation. In simple terms, this means they can order as many C Maxs as they like as long as the orders are real, and they'll still get their full inventory allocation. As such, they'll often price the ordered car attractively. Your car is just "gravy", so to speak. The person who handles new car orders should know all about this. I don't know exactly how it works, but here's how it was described to me by my sales person: They order the C Max first. Next, they go to the Retail Order Verification section of their Ford system. They have to upload a scanned copy of the signed, dated (the dated part is apparently very important) buyer's order, along with a copy of the buyer's driver's license. Some cars also require that they prove the customer has paid a deposit, but I don't think they have to do that on the C Max. Once that's all done, Ford confirms the order as "verified", and it should get pulled for production. This is typically within about two or three weeks. Hope this helps. Maybe call the dealer and ask to speak to the new car manager about this. Or their inventory/order person. If they've ever ordered another product through Retail Order Verification (e.g., Shelby Mustang, Raptor pickup) then they should know how this works and get your order going. Best Wishes. (or contact another dealer if you have to)

Fog lights illuminate a relatively small area directly in front of the vehicle. They're designed for conditions where headlights reflect back into the driver's eyes, such as dense fog or heavy snow. They are quite bright but they are flood lights, not beam lights. So adjusting them upward may not do very much because the lights themselves don't project light vary far. It might be possible to increase night lighting by replacing the fog lights with different lights. But that's what the brights are for, and (as already noted) the fogs automatically go off when you switch on the brights. This is all intentional and part of the design. The latest issue of Road and Track covers this in their tech advice section, and they rpobably explain it a lot better than I can. Unfortunately it's not available online.

When ordering, you'll initially have the dealer number and an order number. The order will be in the "Order Bank". Next, the order gets "pulled" to the Ford system. That's what people mean when they talk about pulling the order or pulling tickets. Most folks say it takes from a couple of weeks to a month for this to happen. In my case it took from Nov 26 to Dec 13. Most also say this happens on Thursdays, but I don't actually know that. To find your order status, the dealer should log in to their Ford system and the "Vehicle Visibility Report". Once the order has been pulled by Ford, they can look at it at any time. Several internet sources say the status only changes weekly. Every dealer is different about this. Some check orders weekly and email updates to their customers. Some are less empowered and may have never heard of this. In that case you might ask to speak to whoever handles new car orders. Once the order is in the Ford system, it will start processing. There are many steps but basically it's assigned a VIN and a production week first. When they pulled my order on Dec 13, they assigned a production week of Jan 21. That's why I say February delivery. From what I've seen, you can count on that week in most cases. At some point later it will also be assigned a specific production day. A few weeks after the VIN is available, and once a specific production date is listed, you can view the window sticker. The production date will be listed at the top of the sticker. HTH

Good point. YMMV. I've spent more time in the last 3 months messing around with, updating, rebooting and troubleshooting my iPhone 5 than I've spent in 2+ years on my supposedly crap Windows 7 PC. Every device has its own processes, for better or worse, and I don't think any one maker is necessarily "better" than any other. Heck, the only reason I'm online right now is that I've spent the last 40 minutes while my Apple devices gets their third tedious update in as many months. My Microsoft stuff does all that stuff (backing up, updating) transparently, reliably, and usually while I'm asleep.

CR can influence whomever they wish. They answer to no one. But they don't really influence me any longer. I grew up in a household with a CR subscription. And I subscribed to it until I was about 30 years old. I'm a car nut and a data analysis/data presentation guy, and I've always loved the pages of detailed information they provided. But as I got older and more educated, I kept noting that CR would rate certain cars lower than everyone else, like JD Power, Strategic Vision, various car magazines, etc. And cars that were panned by testers and survey companies kept making the CR "recommended" list. I would sometimes rent cars like Corollas and Camrys when I traveled, and find myself thinking "Am I really driving a CR 'Best Buy' car? This is an awful car!" Then I'd rent a Hyundai that CR listed as "do not buy" and found it to be great, and to have very good initial quality survey ratings. Anyway, it became unavoidable to me that CR was out of step. So I did some research. I found that CR's mileage, safety and "reliability" ratings use their own methods. Some are fair and valid, but few are aligned with other methods and procedures. To rate reliability, they survey their own members. They don't talk to the general public, they don't do random sample, and they don't ask fleet managers. CR surveys are an indication of consumer perception of a narrow group of people, not a realistic portrayal of how cars really perform. As for the topic of this thread (MPG), CR tests are way different from the EPA's. Heck, CR's tests might even be better or more accurate than the EPA. But that's irrelevant when they start portraying their data as facts, and especially problematic for me when they disparage certain brands while not criticizing others. Example: Where was CR when they tested the Prius C and got 19 MPG less than the EPA city mileage rating? They said nothing at the time, and now claim they got within 7 MPG of the sticker. But their original review is still available online, and it says they got 34 MPG city vs the 53 MPG city EPA rating on the sticker. I don't recall any scandal or special press release about that. It's just deceptive IMO to call out Ford when they kept giving Toyota a pass. CR uses different data sets and methods, that are based on different assumptions, to challenge the EPA. Their data may be valid but their accusations are BS.

You may want to plan on February if you're sure the order hasn't been pulled yet. I say this because my order got pulled last week on December 13th. It's now in the Ford system with a primary status of "In Order Processing". The secondary status is "Scheduled to Week (Week of Jan-21-2013"). A VIN has been assigned and the production sequence number (last 5 digits) is 2257x. I'd be surprised if it was here in Denver before February 15. I've read several places that orders are usually pulled on Thursdays, and sure enough mine appeared in my dealer's system last Thursday. Might want to check with them on Friday AM?

Not a bad idea; it would be helpful for some people. I've seen great variations in fuel mileage in certain cars depending on how I drive and general driving conditions. The most variation I experienced was in my 2004 Prius. In city driving in very cold weather the engine ran constantly and the battery motors more-or-less stopped working. It could do maybe 30 MPG. But in ideal conditions it could do 50 MPG or higher. The biggest steady-state highway cruise variation I've experienced was in a 2010 VW Jetta TDI. With cruise set at 65 MPH on the interstate, it got over 40 MPG. Bump the cruise up to 75 and the mileage instantly dropped to about 35 MPG. At 85 it hovered near 30 MPG. YMMV. I wonder why people make such a big deal out of it. I recall there was some scandal about unmet MPG expectations when I got the Prius back in late 2003, but it sort of blew over after a while.

The Toyota Prius C is EPA rated at 53 MPG in the city. Consumer Reports' review says they got 37 MPG city in the Prius C. That's a 16 MPG deficit. CR's report from last week was critical of the C Max's "real world" mileage. In it they the say "The largest discrepancy we've previously seen was 7 and 6 MPG for the Toyota Prius C...". So, their report on the Prius C says it performed 16 MPG below its EPA city rating, while this new report says only 7 MPG lower. Which is it?

The Toyota Prius C is EPA rated at 53 MPG in the city. Consumer Reports' review says they got 37 MPG city in the Prius C. That's a 16 MPG deficit. CR's report from last week was critical of the C Max's "real world" mileage. In it they the say "The largest discrepancy we've previously seen was 7 and 6 MPG for the Toyota Prius C...". So, their report on the Prius C says it performed 16 MPG below its EPA city rating, while this new report says only 7 MPG lower. Which is it?

Weak! If it says exactly what the exclusions are, and the C Max or the generic term "hybrids" isn't listed, then that should be good enough. I blame the dealer on this one because all they need to do is enter the info into their system and claim it. They should be your advocate. I'd be interested in hearing how this turns out. Good Luck!

Update: Apparently Thursday is allocation day. Got a VIN and build-it week assigned. Model: C-Max SEL, Sterling Gray, 302A pkg + pano roof thingy Date Ordered: Saturday, 11/24/12 Promised Delivery time: 8 to 10 Weeks VIN Available: 12/13/12 Window Sticker Available: nada Scheduled Build Week: 1/21/13 Scheduled Build Date: null Actual Build Date: nuthin Released from Factory for Shipping: zero Estimated Delivery Date: zilch Actual Delivery Date: goose egg State: CO

Sorry for the delay, I had to find it. Here is the form to get the X Plan if you own Ford stock: XPlan PIN Application for Shareholders.pdf

I got the same C Max promotional email, saying thank you for requesting info about the C Max, and a $750 offer that says (in the fine print) that it's not good on the C Max. It seemed odd to me that they would send an email saying, basically "Here's the info you requested about the Ford C Max" and right below it an offer for "$750 private cash", and then add fine print that says it's not available on hybrids or C Max. Good to know that there's a chance they'll follow up with a print version that IS good.

Regarding the rebate on an order, I was told that the buyer gets the rebate as long as the dealer orders the car during the period and keys the rebate into their Ford dealer account at that time. This apparently "locks in" your qualification for the incentive, in case it expires or is cancelled while the order is in process. They said it was really important to do this properly, and proceeded to do it while I watched. They also said that if there's a better incentive at the time of delivery, you would get that instead. We agreed that Ford is almost certain to allow the C Max rebate to expire in January, so they felt it was critical to write the order up with the rebate listed and also to enter it into their system promptly.

I didn't think I qualified for X-Plan, but recently found out that you can get X-Plan if you own shares of Ford stock. You have to own at least 100 shares, and you have to have owned them for at least six months. I filled out a form and faxed it, along with my last six month's account statements, but I got an X-Plan approval via email two days later. I can find the form and post it here if anyone's interested.

215-55-16 works but it's a little over half an inch smaller in diameter than the factory tire. If they're available and priced right, other sizes might be a better match. For me personally, I'd probably stick with the nearest size (225-55-16) if I was fitting snows on 16" wheels. Here's a break down of sizes and estimated speedometer errors: 225-50-17 is your factory tire size. 215-55-16 = 13.9 mm (.55 inch) smaller; Speedo 60 when you're going about 58.6 MPH <== this is the tire used in this example. 215-60-16 = 7.6 mm (.28 inch) larger; Speedo 60 when you're going about 61 MPH. 225-55-16 = 2.9 mm (.12 inch) smaller; Speedo 60 when you're going 59.8 MPH 205-60-16 = 4.4 mm (.17 inch) smaller; Speedo 60 when you're going 59.7 MPH

I too have a panoramic glass roof on my current car, and I'll echo what the others said about liking how it brightens the car. Like the others, I don't drive around with it open very often, and I close it as soon as I'm going very fast. Is it worth it? For $1200, probably not. I ordered my car with it but I'll admit that it's probably not the smartest spending decision I've ever made. For me, I can afford it and I want it, so I got it. But if I was stretching to buy the car or financing a large part of it, I would skip the pano roof. $1200 is a lot of money. One thing that I was concerned about with my current car was whether the glass roof lets in a lot of heat. I live in an area where the sun shines all the time, but it turns out that this was not a big deal. The glass they use nowadays is really effectively tinted to block heat without being overly dark. And the sun shade is pretty effective, too. Heat and glare has not been any kind of issue for me.

The initial markets for availability of the Energi model are reportedly Atlanta, Houston and Austin, Boston, Chicago, Denver, Detroit, Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, New York City, Orlando, Phoenix and Tucson, Portland, Oregon, Raleigh-Durham, Richmond, Virginia, Seattle, and Washington, D.C. Nationwide availability to follow in 2013.

I'm not expecting 47 MPG and don't think anyone should. The old "your mileage may vary" maxim applies to hybrids more than other cars, and it applies to the C Max more than other hybrids. The problem for us is that EPA "highway" test spends a lot of time at speeds under 65 MPH. The C max is the only mass production car that can go 60 MPH with the gasoline engine off. This really skews the EPA highway test to the high side. Ford knows this, and I personally think it's a little disingenuous for their press people to keep hyping the 47 MPG figure. They must know it's going to be hard for owners to duplicate. As for me, I don't care. I've been down this road before (so to speak) with a 2004 Prius and 2008 Escape hybrid. I had each for about 2.5 years and rarely got the EPA ratings in either car, either before or after the 2008 ratings adjustment. In mixed driving, the Prius did about 35 in the winter, 44 in the spring and fall, and around 42 in the summer. The Escape did about 27 in winter and about 32 to 34 otherwise, unless you ran the AC in which case it was lower.

The build date is usually on the window sticker at the top. There's a leading digit, usually a 1 if it was a regular build. It should look something like 120121121. Take off the 1, and you have the build date. 20121121, or November 21, 2012.

The Costco quote I got on a C Max was invoice plus $1000 and they low-balled my trade. Their best offer was my trade plus $6300 in exchange for a C Max SEL with the 302A package and pano roof. Another dealer beat the price by $800 and offered $2000 more for my trade. After everything it came out to my car plus $3500. I had heard the Costco deal was really good, but I guess it depends on the car.

Finally got the order. It's actually just a screen print from when they ordered it, I think. It shows Ord Type 1, Priority 10, and then the order code, paint code, trim code, options etc. At the bottom, the status is "U311 - ORDER NO. XXXX HAS BEEN ADDED TO THE ORDER BANK." Nuttin else. When I asked what the order status is now, they said "The order has not been pulled yet", whatever THAT means.