Kelleytoons

OTOH, you absolutely cannot upgrade a Samsung HD TV to a Samsung 4K TV. So -- what is your point? (Because you CAN upgrade the NAV info in our C-Maxs). The real issue here is that auto makers shouldn't be doing this stuff (the electronic integration stuff) but rather leave it to third parties. It's a bit like when VCRs were integrated into TVs. THAT was a terrible idea, because as the technology changed you were stuck with a TV with an obsolete input device inside (or vice versa -- an input device with an obsolete TV). What would be FAR better would be that car makers just standardized the inputs in the same way you can put different batteries in your car (although even that, in the case of our own vehicles, is rather limited). I'm fairly sure we'll get there eventually and along the way there will be a lot of growing pains.

In related news, Toyota announced they will never make any vehicle which has new features their old ones don't have.

Right -- we see this all the time in almost anything, be it electronics, a car, or even a wife. The moral is: get what you want when you want it and don't worry about the new models that come out that are a lot more attractive and get better mileage (here I'm talking about wives, not cars :>). My experience is that brand new ones are a lot more trouble than the switch is worth (and now I'm talking about cars).

I think the definition of "moot" as being "contentious, debatable" in essence means it's kind of pointless and useless to keep talking about it. IOW, trying to debate something that is "moot" isn't going to get you anywhere, as you will never get resolution. So this portion of the discussion, at least, is moot. <bg>.

Yeah, I think you've said it all. I am nearly positive folks are overrating pre-conditioning in a hot climate -- I know that even when I start up our car after sitting in 98 degree heat (and 90% humidity) it's cool before I can even drive 50 feet. If preconditioning really saves that energy it can't be much. But they can think what they want (and will -- some folks just don't want to be confused by the facts).

No, you still don't get it. I'm not talking about any other locale -- I am talking specifically about Florida (as I've said at least three times now). Everyone in Florida (EVERYONE) has their vehicle in a garage at night and, if they have a job where they could afford these vehicles, at work as well (or, to put it another way, if they have a job where their employer will provide a plug, they will also provide a garage). Under those circumstances there is absolutely no need and no use for pre-conditioning. Period.

No, I think the problem is you aren't understanding the weather here. I don't need A/C when I first start off at home -- it's plenty cool in the garage. So no need for pre-conditioning. The only time I'd actually cool down the car would be when it was parked somewhere else -- and thus NOT plugged in. So, can't use pre-conditioning there. In Florida no real need for it -- but if you are using it here I'd love to know how (and, more importantly, why).

You disagree that living in Florida pre-conditioning is foolish? How long have you been living here? The longer you live here the more you get used to the heat, so if you've only been here a few years I think you'll find that you don't need A/C as much as you might now (certainly not to pre-cool your car).

I didn't say I lost track of time -- I probably keep track of my time more carefully than you do (since I have a lot less of it left :>). But I certainly am flexible about things. If I had to always think "well, we can't go out to dinner while we're out shopping because we'd run out of energy" it would take a lot of the fun out of what little life I have left. No, I still think these are for those with fixed commutes who don't have to (nor want to) deviate from any such process. Otherwise, it's really a crapshoot, at least with any distances involved (if you are driving around a few miles from your home/work where you can go back to charge then it's another matter, although I would argue that if that is your range you really ought to be exploring things that don't require any energy but your own, like a bicycle). In that regard a lot of old folks live in a community called The Villages here and use golf carts to get around because nearly everything (shopping, recreation, medical facilities) is within a few miles of where they live, all with golf cart paths to it. In that scenerio they are indeed using an all electric vehicle and I could see something like this being ideal if they wanted more speed and/or cargo/seating capacity.

As I understand it, ICE doesn't get good mileage per se -- because it also charges the battery at the same time you can't expect it to get the mpg you'd get out of any normal vehicle. The only way you can look at it is total mpg. And while I haven't driven when it's that cold (and, hopefully, never will :>) I would suspect that's about right for the driving conditions you are describing depending on how you were driving, assuming you live in an area where they put "winter gas" out for consumption. But I'm sure other cold weather folks will chime in here.

No, I think he's talking about "pre-conditioning", where you heat/cool the car before you drive it. Both he and the original poster said that doing this when attached to only 120 may run the battery down (I assume because 120 isn't enough to supply the power that's being used in the pre-conditioning). I understand folks who live in the very cold would enjoy this, but here in Florida pre-conditioning would be foolish (I don't understand *anyone* who feels their car is too hot to get in to drive - it takes but a few seconds of A/C to cool down almost any car nowadays). So for me it's a "meh" factor.

I wouldn't accept leaving a USB device of any kind plugged into the charger as an issue (but, as others have noted, better to not do it and THEN when it runs the battery down they have nothing to argue with you about). The charger *might* be issue. We know these batteries are *much* smaller than typical cars, so you can't compare with past vehicles. Just curious -- when was your car built?

2013? Or built prior to January of this year? Our SE 2014 (built in January) doesn't have this issue -- which isn't to say that *every* SE built after January of this year is okay, but the odds are much better. Clearly they solved a lot of issues related to this battery problem. I always feel in these cases your absolute best bet is to get ANOTHER of exactly the same model. I've pasted this elsewhere, but it's very relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBSAeqdcZAM Because the odds of you getting two lemons are *extremely* remote. And, given the circumstances, if you start lemon law your dealer may well agree to just trade you another, more recent model. A much easier experience than going through the car buying process with another dealer somewhere else (and you can get the same great deal, or perhaps even better). Just a thought... (don't shoot the messenger).

I can definitely see this as the way to go for anyone who commutes in a distance that will fit. For everyone else... not so much. Forget the lack of storage for a moment, and even forget deliberate long trips. As someone who goes out to the store (about a 24 mile round trip) I find that I often suddenly decide to make some "extra" trips. Soon I've easily driven for an hour and... well, I'd basically be screwed with any electric only car. Not only that, it would just make me *very* nervous to know I might run out at any moment and then be stuck, even if I made it to a plug, for several hours. For this old man I doubt whether I'd ever be able to deal with that -- perhaps the next generation will have plug-in stations everywhere that can supercharge a vehicle in 15 minutes (I wouldn't count anything out, even though battery technology hasn't changed much in 100 years).

Yes, I don't think you'll have any troubles getting into the 600 mile club. And it doesn't mean you still can't "punch it" when you need to (unlike the Prius, which is pretty gutless). You just don't want to make a regular habit out of doing that but save it for those merging times when you need to get up to speed in a hurry.

I think you're looking at this all wrong. While all the information provided is correct, it gives an inaccurate picture of how the C-Max operates. It is constantly cycling on and off from EV to ICE mode, depending on how you drive. You generate enough to operate in EV mode, and then you go back to ICE, but it's not like you drive for 10 minutes in ICE and, say 30 minutes in EV. It's more like 1 and 3 minutes. But it works out the same. Typically when not using A/C I average around 50-60 mpg driving at the speeds you are talking about. But you need to learn to drive correctly (which is actually the same way you *should* be driving in any car) keeping your foot off the brake and gas as much as possible. It becomes second nature (I've been driving this way for 30 years and don't even think about it) but if you've never done it your mileage may vary (YMMV :>).

Oh, and I think we've talked about insurance elsewhere in another thread, but basically car insurance is a rip off anyway. You can't break even, no matter what you do (personally, I believe in carrying the minimum the law lets you get away with). Remember, the insurance companies are betting against you -- and just like Vegas, they ALWAYS win (because they get the house odds).

Yeah, and I feel *exactly* the same way about my house, with good experience -- I bought in Florida during the boom years and three years later it was worth only half what I paid for it. Guess what? I love it even better (for one thing, my taxes are less than half what I was paying before). This is the last place I live in before I move six feet deeper in the earth, and I don't care if it's worth one red cent to anyone but me and my wife. (Oh, cheaper it is the cheaper my insurance is as well -- got to love depreciation!)

Also (not to belabor a point because I suspect you and I just don't have the same viewpoint on life and that's okay -- we will never agree), it amuses me when folks ask my advice about computers or video (my two areas of expertise) and then say something along the lines of "well, I'd buy something now but it will go down in price if I wait." While that is usually true with those technologies the sad fact is they are actually losing value by not enjoying their device now. They will *never* be happy because prices will keep going down and there is no one time to buy something. If you are happy with what you have, with what you paid for at the time, why in heck *should* you care what it costs tomorrow? By the same token, if it goes up in price it shouldn't increase your happiness any. If my C-Max was suddenly worth twice what it cost me so what? It wouldn't make driving it any better (actually, it would make it worse, because then I might start worrying about folks stealing it). Is your mpg going to increase or decrease based on the value of your car? But, like I say, I doubt whether you and I will ever agree. That's okay -- but nearly everyone I know feels as I do about the value of things (then again, I only really know old folks so it's not a good sample size. I'm sure young people are much more concerned about pricing and such, particularly if they end up trading in their rides. I will most likely be dead before my Max is <g>).

Nope, don't mind one whit. I take it you're young, or at least don't have quite the same world view, but if you start worrying about what "value" things have that is strictly judged by the money it costs for them you lose out quite a bit on life. Things are sometimes more precious than gold (literally) because how you define value basically helps you define life. For example, lots of folks want a lot of money in the bank -- working hard to make that much makes them happy. But as I always say, you don't need a million dollars to do nothing, which is what I do (well, at least in terms of trying to make money :>). I sit around all day by the pool, or play tennis and I'm living life as large as I really want to live it. Could I be working my ass off to make more money? Of course I could, but that wouldn't make my life any better than it is. I worked just as hard as I needed to in order to get to where I am today, but trust me, I could have made FAR more money if I had wanted to work harder (or longer). However, that's not true for everyone -- every single person needs to decide how much value they place on material things and what that means. To me the C-Max has a value WAY above what I could get if I chose to sell it. It makes me happier than owning a car that would cost ten times as much. So if tomorrow someone says it's worth $5 so what? (Actually, I might buy another for my wife then :>).

And most auto store chains will scan the code for you for free as well, like Pep Boys or Auto Zone.

LOL.

It seems to me, in general, that EV+ is probably good IF you live in a colder climate. As others have said, it will allow ICE to come on right away which you need to warm the engine up anyway (before good mileage will start). OTOH, if you are in a warm climate (or it's summer) then it depends on your driving patterns (as Miami Dad shows). For me I think it's a wash -- doesn't matter either way whether EV+ is on or off, in terms of mileage. My trips are pretty consistent whether I am going back home (when it would kick in) or out somewhere (where it doesn't). So I leave it on, just for fun (it's kind of fun when it does kick in to remind me home is right around the corner :>)

Right -- you can choose to be "insurance poor" with incredible peace of mind, or be realistic. Although... nowadays if you file a major claim, either car or home, your company will most likely cancel you (or make you so high risk it ain't worth pursuing). So you need to balance that as well. Personally I carry what I need (am required) to carry on home and auto and take the same chances the insurance companies do (namely, they bet you will not lose, and you bet you will. Kind of like betting your life insurance company that you will die -- when you win you lose). In half a century I had my car (a fairly hot sports car model) stolen once -- and after a month or so it was recovered (which often happens). It needed repairs, but was completely covered by my insurance (they hassled with me so long that I wasn't going to get anything until they were sure it wasn't going to be recovered). If I lived/worked in a major crime city I *might* be worried, but the C-Max is got to be the LAST car any thief wants (can you imagine how they'd deal with having to go to the dealer three or four times a year? <g>). (Oh and a year or so later they cancelled my home owner policy -- which was what I filed the losses from the stuff inside the car -- despite me being a customer without a claim for 30 years. It was a small company you might have heard of, called Allstate. The "good hands" people (I just didn't realize where their fingers in that hand were sitting).

You can't add the Nav package afterwards (it's a hardware part of whatever MFT unit is installed). You can use how ever many phones you want with the MFT -- for example, when my wife drives it automatically syncs to her phone, although mine is the main phone. The main phone is only the phone it will select if there is more than one phone available to sync (so she should just get in the car with whatever phone she wants to use and not have the other phones with her, or at least not with bluetooth turned on).