stevedebi

I haven't measured my MFT, but Sync 3 requires an 8" display. Additionally, the entire car stereo / hands free / system is designed around sync. They would have to reprogram a lot of that stuff. I see that you are upset, but in some ways it is no different than any other major component on a new design, such as a new transmission final drive ratio, or engine upgrade.

I think that was just the central MFT chip and supporting units, not the entire MFT? I got the letter yesterday, but didn't read it that closely. For example, I'm not sure the screen is covered.

OK, I'll go there. Check out the C-Max Energi as well. With the rebates, it was actually cheaper than the C-Max for me.

Good one!

Frank, You are correct on "moot", but I've normally seen it used the way I did (incorrectly it appears)! This is from the link you posted: "but substantially reduced torque makes it largely unsuitable in a conventional drive train". I'm pretty much standing by the concepts in my post - and they were not based on opinion, take a look: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/atkinson-cycle-engine1.htm I have studied the engines and powertrains, but I don't generally get technical on these posts unless it comes up. What I was saying is that the hybrid works well because the electric motors supply the get up and go at lower speeds, whereas the ICE supplies the more efficient power at higher speeds. The lack of low speed capability is why the Atkinson cycle is not used on normal cars. Once up to speed it can work well. As to mountains, I recently ran into this exact scenario. I had put 24 miles of electric on my energi, at which point the car went into conventional mode. I went over a long hill, and watched the "normal" battery charge level go up and up as I went downhill. When it hit the top of the battery icon and still showed charge indicator, I let it run for a couple of minutes, and then switched back to EV Later and found that it had about 2% available capacity - the display showed 1 mile on the battery. Subsequently I was able to get that up to around 10% using the off ramp slow down and a couple of stoplights (not sure I didn't cost some gas on those lights), enough to get it to 8 miles on the return trip - so I was able to use EV to the highway, go EV Later up the hill, then add sufficient charge down the hill to again get it to 4 miles EV on the battery, which is enough to get me into EV+ range to get from the freeway to my house. Overall, it resulted in an MPG in the 50s going both ways over that big hill here in LA, wheas it would have been in the late 40's at best in all EV Later mode. (EDITED: I believe it was actually late 50's MPG, not 70's).

Plus 3, I don't precondition because I'm on 120v and it doesn't work well. But I do trust several Energi folks who have posted that it does indeed increase the range in EV. I think what you meant was that if you are driving within the normal EV range (that you would have gotten without preconditioning), then having the preconditioning to add extra range is of no benefit - because it will not be used. But it got a bit convoluted in the middle there! But some folks DO need that range - those that are juicing up at work for example. The economics would depend on the cost of energy in your locality. I've not done the calculations because I don't have the L2 charger anyway.

Frank, Sorry, it did get a bit side tracked. The conventional C-Max makes it a moot point. I have read that the hybrids are more efficient when running the ICE, based on posts by larry. I got the discussion a bit off by using the Energi to demonstrate that Ford doesn't utilize the greater capacity, indicating they agree that it isn't profitable to charge the HVB via the ICE. Really, the hybrid is built around the Atkinson cycle concept, which has 5-7% better MPG at higher RPM, but has poor low RPM performance. Hence, the battery power to provide take off acceleration. I think Ford basically thinks of it as an ICE vehicle at speed, although they do make use of the battery when possible, to reduce engine load and to provide extra boost.

I love Heinlein books, but did you know he didn't invent the term TANSTAFL? I probably shouldn't mention Toyotas; I try not to comment on models I have not owned. My early hybrid knowledge was from study of HSD, but after my FEH I switched to experience base. I meant that Ford (at least) chooses not to utilize the full HVB in the EV Later mode. If it were efficient to use the ICE to charge the HVB, they would have utilized the entire capacity of the HVB on the highway. Instead, they chose to reserve a small portion of the HVB, and only go past that if there is a long downhill and they exceed the "sustaining" capacity level. But then (unless you capture the energy by cycling away from EV Later and back), it simply uses up that excess energy until it gets back to the maximum "sustaining" level. Of course they use the ICE to charge the sustaining portion - that is how the hybrid works. But there has to be a reason that they chose not to use the entire HVB. I've seen other folks claim that the ICE is more efficient at highways speeds, with lots of supporting information.

I'm not sure if you were replying to my post or not, but I appreciate the clear explanation of how the car works - I've owned hybrids for many years, but new folks can use explanation. There is no free lunch, and I think I'm going to have to stand by my statement - it makes no sense to use the ICE to charge the HVB. Both Toyota and Ford choose not to do this any more than necessary, even with their plug in models that theoretically could hold more charge if they wanted to use the ICE to recharge. I know that in my Energi, Ford doesn't use any more of the HVB than the conventional C-Max on the highway; it uses a similar (fairly small) amount of the battery. I've seen .5 KWh, but never tried to measure it myself.

Not sure about the conventional C-Max, but the C-Max Energi Owner manual recommends pre-conditioning.

Older cars used a 40 bit encryption code on the remote. That could be broken by a laptop computer within a minute. I think the newer remotes have more security.

Is there any possibility the lock is frozen from moisture inside?

Correct, I was speaking of pre-conditioning. Really, for a pure electric car, I would always use an L2 charger - it just makes sense.

Somebody was trying to do that to the Fusion Energi. I'm not sure they got it working, but you might try that forum.

I have to say that on my 2008 Ford Escape Hybrid, the only time I ran the 12v down was when something was plugged into the rear seat 12v lighter plug. That one was hot all the time, and it went flat. The 120v and the front 12v were shut down with the car.

I didn't look at it past the price tag - about 39K at the time. It has been reduced now. A good car for those with the requisite commute! Preconditioning with a 120v charger will quite possibly run the battery down somewhat. The 120v can't keep up. Not a problem with the L2.

Paul, I'd not heard that part. Good to know!

Actually, just for clarification, after 1800 miles the Energi will start the gas engine and run it down to one gallon. This is to ensure the fuel is fresh. That is assuming the tanks has not been filled before that...

I don't think the Prius will ever match the comfort and sophistication of the C-Max. It is purely focused on MPG.

Make sure everything is fully unplugged so they have no excuse. Then wait for it to happen three times, and go to the lemon law to get a buyback.

I'm not sure I see the point of getting a certain mileage out of a tank. You can determine the range by running it down to around a quarter tank, and then taking the actual mileage for that tank and multiplying it by the fuel capacity. To me, the point of the hybrid is to get the best MPG, not the most out of a tank. Just my personal view here, I realize you guys obviously like it for some reason! I know many folks do it, but we really aren't supposed to let the car run out of gas. The fuel pump is in the gas tank, and depends on having gas in the tank for its cooling.

I got the number from the two Energi forums, based on a bunch of different postings. Larryh determined the number I gave, based on the available energy used. He determined it was a low of around 33% of SOC, and a high of 66% - based on the conventional hybrid models, resulting in the .5 KW available energy. From what I have read here on the forums, both the C-Max and Fusion Energi platforms use the same "sustaining" energy capability as the "normal" hybrid only versions. Sustaining is what is used on the highway, i.e. EV later or when the HVB is completely depleted from Auto mode. From what I can tell, the software reserves a set amount of the HVB when we go to EV Later. That amount is the same as the available energy in the conventional hybrid. Sorry if I used the wrong terminology!

I'm basing my response on my real-world experience - if not carefully done, I get less MPG when I attempt to recharge the HVB from the ICE. I'm not sure what you mean by the "charger" capacity. Do you mean the generator that transfers energy from buring gasoline into electric energy? But really, if it were economical to use the ICE to recharge the HVB, Toyota and Ford would have done it long ago.

Actually, that is where MPGe comes in. You divide the KW hours used by something like 34 (can't remember the number right now), and it provides the equivilent to MPG.

I looked, but nobody explained the difference. The Volt has only electric motors for propulsion. The ICE is used only to provide electricity. The C-Max (and other gas/electrics) use the gas engine to either provide traction to the wheels, or to drive the electric motor. When necessary, the C-Max has the capability to recharge the main battery, but there is very little available power (.5 KW hours). It will also recharge the main battery when the car is decellerating, by putting the kenetic energy (speed) of the vehicle back into the battery. This is known as regenerative braking. The C-Max will attempt to go into EV whenever there is enough power at the time in the main battery, at any speed up to 85 MPH. This is a very high level description, and no doubt others will want to correct my basic words! As others have said, you would benefit from reading about the different types of hybrids and electric cars.