kc1174

Just curious. Why don't you want the a/c compressor to come on? Mileage? It's not going to make that big a difference. Also, if you don't run your a/c occasionally, the seals in the unit will dry out. They use the coolant to lubricate all the fittings so it it never runs, they will dry out and crack, thus causing a leak and expensive repair.

Yep I know all that and never questioned the need for the compressor to run, just that it ran when the ac light was off, but this is a resurrected thread from February and I have since sold the C-Max.

Ignore everything I said above. Cheers.

As someone who switched from a 2013 C-Max to an Audi A3 TDI in February, all I can say is bollocks. Look it up lol At least I still have my gaspods :)

I didn't choose the VW Diesel because I couldn't get over the vibration and clatter at idle. How's the vibration on the A3?

I haven't looked at the Passat or CC or Golf to compare, but to be honest it sounds like a gas engine. There is pretty good sound suppression in the A3 though. Not sure if the other VW's have it. Can only really tell it's a diesel when it's running and I have the hood up. Had a go in an RS7 the other week while mine was getting its first oil change and that's noisy for other reasons. Managed 44mpg in that on a 20 mile round trip, such is the effect on me after driving the C-Max and now the A3... 560hp V8 engine too :)

It appears to me that all technical help passed on from one user to another by virtue of say, a forum, is in effect passing on proprietary information. We're in effect copying Ford manuals and illegally reproducing them right here when someone asks what pin 15 is on connector C175E is. Half of this site therefore contains "pirated" material.

Pin 15 is for the engine coolant sensor btw (oops).

Does the Audi engine utilize an EGR circuit? Have these engines (more so in the VW's I suppose) had any issues with carbon buidlup over time?

Yep, it does have an EGR valve. I've read they can pack up after a lot of miles, but I have this VCDS OBD-II scan tool to diagnose or code and bypass it if need be. Being a car that's been out since 2012 in Europe, parts seem pretty easy to come by even though it's new to us. On carbon buildup, it seems to affect gas engines from what I've read. My lifetime mpg is going very well. Finding a decent Audi forum, less so.

I re-read your older post.   You'll be ok if you've got a 50k warranty.  The service at my local Audi dealership was first class (Cappuccino and a brand new A6 as a service loaner).  

 

Alright then, guv.   TTFN from a fellow Brit.

 

Adrian

Ta! :)

I'm happy enough with it. Only annoying thing is my C-Max is still sat there unsold at the Audi dealer...

http://www.crownaudi.com/used-Tampa+Bay-2013-Ford-CMax+Hybrid-SE-1FADP5AU6DL502467

 

I told them - take a photo of the lifetime mpg showing 48. Nope. Also offered them to give whoever buys it my number so I can show them what's what. We'll see.

 

It was sad to say bye to the C-Max. I will admit when I went back to reset the MFT (I forgot), that I felt bad it sitting there. Still do a bit. It's funny how bad in my experience Ford sales were/are at selling the car, which is why I offered the Audi dealer my services if needed. Trade in btw was $14k ish so it looks like they're trying to get rid.

 

Anyway, on the Audi - I'm taking the same roads to from work and getting 48 before and now 54 after 1,000 miles. Managed 65 on a freak day with no traffic and tailwind. I have a photo I'll find. Lifetime is at 45.4 and going up and last 13.2 tank with 0 remaining was 645 miles. Trick is the S-tronic dual clutch thing where you get to 6th in manual around 40mph and use cruise a lot. My commute is mostly 45mph roads.

Yep, it's costly to maintain but I have this Audi care thing where scheduled maintenance is prepaid to 45k and the warranty is a year longer.It costs more, but it's nice. Maybe if I had an SEL with Sony, I'd be less impressed with this but mine was an SE. This will sound odd, but I prefer MFT over the MMI Audi has. AC doesn't appear to affect mpg either, and Scangauge backs me up. Weird. Maybe it's the gaspods..

To be fair, if I based things on cost to buy, maintain and get good mpg, I'd get a Fiesta :) Overall I'm happy, I just wish they'd sell my C-Max and give it a good home...

How does the driving position A3 compare to the Cmax? I got a Cmax rather than a fusion because I like the higher driving position. Is the A3 as low as a fusion? How are the driving ergonomics? I will replace my 2013 soon with a 2016 Cmax but would like to consider the A3 diesel or etron.

Takes some getting used to - especially falling into the car vs. stepping into the C-Max. I got the driver's assistance package so lane warning and a flashing blind spot light if someone's in the next lane. The Fusion I found I could see out less than the Audi, especially the rear window. I miss being above everyone like in the C-Max but the view isn't too bad in this compared with the C-Max. I'm 6'0 and the Fusion seat wouldn't go high enough for me to be comfortable looking out vs. the C-Max and the A3. If the eTron A3 makes it here, or the Blumotion TDi or even the A1 TDi, I would definitely take a look if I was you. I felt bad leaving my C-Max. Saw it sat there when I went back to reset my MFT on Saturday.. Served me well and is a great car, I just saw the value vs the loan balance and figured it's time. Maybe in a few years Ford will revamp it and make it a bit more aerodynamical (and fix the 12v issues) and I'll take the plunge again. Fusion, not so much, and that Focus electric.. Unlikely. :)

I've considered diesels for my wife and her highway commute but the high cost of diesel here (often 20-40 cents more than premium) plus the much higher running costs (more frequent and higher cost oil changes, urea refills, etc) cancel out the better hwy mpg's they can get. Finally, only VW's are available locally and their reputation isn't so great.

 

GOOD LUCK and enjoy your new ride!

Cheers! Yeah Audi's are basically squashed beetles, but the diesel engines aren't bad. Think they also do Passat or Jetta hybrids. Quality may not be the same as an Audi, but it's all VW. If they ever get round to the Blumotion here - that's definitely one to go for.

You treasonous old so-and-so....

 

I traded in an A6 (v8) when I bought my C-max. I miss the big, comfy seats, the 335 horsepower and the heated steering wheel. The rain-sensing wipers were on crack and I don't miss the staggering repair bills and the $100 fill ups.

 

I was on one of the Audi forums too. I felt like I was in a maximum security prison. Let's just the uncouth conduct makes our forum look like the retired English ladies' lawn bowling club. "Cucumber sandwich, anyone?"

:) Yeah the rain sensing wipers are a bit odd - basically on what I've always known to be the intermittent setting. Wipes whenever it feels like it - and always on in fog.. Talking of which - rear fog lights! Missed those since moving from the UK 12 years ago. Repair bills can be high but I have a 4 yr 50k warranty and Audi care for the scheduled services for I think 50k miles for $800 so I think I'm good there. Plus they always give an Audi loaner when it's in the shop vs Enterprise :) Fill ups - agree diesel costs more but it's not far off what we were paying 6 months ago, so I'm good. For now! I think overall I feel more relaxed in the Audi than the C-Max. Don't think it's the comfort, just the ride and people don't ride my ass anymore like they did in the C-Max. The hybrid badge seemed to be a magnet for idiots to cut me off despite me doing the same speeds in this (with, I might add, less torque and horsepower in the Audi)! Those forums suck and it's all about VCDS and Can-bus hacks in there, which I'm not prepared to bother with. If it ain't broken, no need to fix it!

Okay, so it's not a hybrid and the only battery in it is, well the 12v, but I'm posting this here as I let my C-Max go last Monday and got one of these.

My 2013 still had some value (trade in SE 15k miles with MFT - $15k) vs the loan balance, so I decided to get an Audi diesel.

 

I was looking and a Fusion Energi titanium, but the Audi was less ($35k), even with a Ford X-Plan on the energi.

 

First week with this - I'm getting the exact same mpg as I was getting babying the C-Max - 53mpg on both the Audi display and the Scangauge. Car only has 400 miles on it so it's not yet broken in either. And I'm just driving it like a car. I miss the C-max CVT and strangely MFT too, but don't miss the brakes ;)

 

Anyway, I figured this was the best place to say bye and throw out there an alternative. Doubt it's a competing product per-se, but on FE, and cost for a nice interior, it's not too far off. Diesel costs more, but these engines last forever. The A3 has the same size gas tank as the C-Max, so if I break 600 miles, I'll see if I'm allowed to post it up ;)

 

One thing I will miss is this forum though. Lots of help from everyone here. When there's issues and recalls, we're all in the same boat which is great too. Audi forums kind of suck.

 

I have an unused oem cover and oddly a couple of headlights from when I swapped the originals out with some nice European ones, so I'll post them up in the forum sometime.

 

Cheers, and I'll still be about seeing what's going on.

 

Kevin

FYI, the capacity of the Hybrid HVB is 1.4 kWh. SOC is measured in % not kWh. The operating range of the HVB will never be greater than around 0.56 kWh (from about 70% maximum SOC to around 30% minimum SOC). The battery gauge does not show a true SOC of the battery but rather is an indication of the operating range of the HVB where when the battery tip is full = about 70 % SOC.

Thanks! I seem to have been playing it fast and loose with the SoC vs. kwh in my posts. I'll go back in and change kwh references to SoC. You're right about the battery gauge - the Scangauge II I use was probably the most useful thing I've bought for the C-Max, after tint. Thanks!

Something to play with but what some are saying is this technique is better than what Ford's engineers came up with for EV+. Interesting.

 

I have noticed that I do get better FE in the morning if I start out with a higher SoC but i drive 10 miles to work. I always looked at this as a trade off as the FE the last trip was less because it charged up the battery before it was parked. I would think a long 40+ mile trip would see little impact from the SoC at start up. Weird.

Hiya. Not sure why, but EV+ off does help on my 44 mile commute. Ran it with for 6 mos Jan to June last year, and since July it's been off. My trip is basically 2 or 3 mile 45/50mph stretches with lights in between and some stretches a bit longer. Great fun... Anyway, I think starting off with a good SoC gets me into a good rhythm where I'm cruising along while charging at 60 SoC, brake to 65 or 66 at the lights, then accelerate to 60 SoC - rinse and repeat. With less SoC at the start of the journey, it throws that whole SoC rhythm off if you know what I mean. EV off for me maybe helps because I'm driving trying to keep the SoC high, so using ICE more than maybe I should. Btw, I think EV+ was designed to inflate the trip mpg, so I think the engineers knew what they were doing ;) The way I guess I see it is - if we start a trip at 60 SoC and end at 60, and got 50mpg, that was a true 50 mpg. Start with 60 SoC and end at 40 - the mpg may be higher than 50, but that 20 is more use to me tomorrow. At least that's what I think. I dunno, I could be wrong :)

I remember reading that Ford's engineers decided against driving modes--Eco, sport, etc. that the Prius has. They (Ford) felt that they were both gimmicky and unnecessary. Which is pretty much how I feel about the EV+. Unless your trips are remarkably short it really shouldn't affect your mileage very much.

I'd like an EV mode "never, unless I'm slowing down or braking", or a "keep the blue bar just under the white bar" mode :)

kc1174,

 

You brought up some issues that have been going through my mind-- what benefit is the EV+ feature to the non-energi hybrid driver? I can understand you want to ride more in electric mode with an energi close to home so that you can subsequently charge up. But with the conventional hybrid, I think you made the point that either you are driving downhill home and the car would be in the battery mode and use regenerative charging anyway or you are driving possibly uphill and using more of the battery in EV+ so that your battery will be more drained when you start out on your next trip. Thus, is EV+ anything more than symbolic to a normal hybrid? Or is the assumption that if you start the car such as in a cold climate, you will be using the engine and charging the battery anyway on your next trip, thus it makes sense to drain the battery more upon arrival? However, I also note others in the forum claim that turning the EV+ off seems to improve mileage...?

Hi, sorry went awol for a couple of days there. Yeah the main thing I at least have noticed is - if you keep the hvb SoC as high as possible when getting home, it makes the start of the next journey a little more economical. If you have a cold morning, the car wants to use ice and if the battery is low, it'll take more to get the battery up, but if you start out with a high SoC and it's cold, it'll use the ice, but also use the hvb a little. I've seen at 40 degrees my car go into hybrid drive on ice a minute into the drive, and get over 50mpg on a 44 miles trip. The same trip starting at say 50 SoC, I'll be around 42mpg.

Am not sure what the impact of constantly using ice and keeping the hvb at a high SoC is on the engine or the battery, but time will tell. Like with any batteries, it's sometimes good to drain it to keep it configured right. Without an actual Ford tech who knows what they're talking about, it's difficult to know, but I'll keep doing what I'm doing since the mpg is good. Let's face it, EV+ comes on when you get home and the car's already nicely warmed up. I'd much rather use that energy on a cold engine the next trip. That logic is why I ended up trying this out, and so far it's working for me at least. Much colder climates than where I am where it's low mid 40s and 55-60 in the day, and this might not work as well. Can't hurt to give it a go though.

Old thread I know, but since reading it about a year ago, I've had some time to see the difference.

First off, I have a Scangauge II and always know the SoC of the high voltage battery. I always try to keep the battery SoC around or above 60 (high being 68 SoC I think - edit: 70). As I'm within about 1/2 mile of home, EV+ kicks in and I park up with the SoC at about 50. While it helped jump up that trip's mpg a bit, I know in the morning, I'll be starting with a low SoC and the ICE will want to fill it up, which affects the next morning's mpg to work.

With EV+ off, I keep it around or over 60 SoC, so better mpg the next day. If the final mile home is downhill, EV+ may help, but if you're coasting downhill home, the battery will be charging anyway. Also, EV+ when arriving at work sucks if you park in a multi level garage. Enter with 60, leave with 45..

As an FYI, I tend to keep the SoC up around 60 on all trips because by driving with ICE just above the blue line on Empower I've been getting great gas mileage even with colder weather (40 mornings, 50 at night). With a 60 SoC battery at say 50mph and the blue charge arrow pointing up or no arrow (true hybrid drive), you'll be getting 60+mpg. Brake up to the next red light and charge it up to 67 SoC or so, and use that 7 to get it back up to speed and you'll still have that 60 SoC available for the next section until you hit a light again. Keeping the SoC at 60 ish isn't difficult but keeping the pedal above the blue line is - don't really have to look at the Empower to see where it is, you'll get used to how the car feels and sounds when you're at that magic spot. Around 62 SoC the car will want to drop to EV. Either let it drop to 60, or give the pedal a kick and get it back on track. Even if the ICE is running and you're above the blue line, at 63+SoC the blue arrow above the battery will likely be pointing down. This is ok as it's really not using much anyway. My daily trips to from work 44 miles and I'm getting 56mpg with this and maybe 10 miles EV.. That's all braking or coasting.. With EV+ on I was getting about 47.

Anyhow, this was supposed to be a response to the EV+ usefulness and I got off track. Depends how you drive, but testing over a long period with and without EV+, having a full or fuller battery I find helps the next trip, so EV+ for me will remain off.

 

Edit: Forgot to mention - the car does seem to learn what you're trying to do. The car will try to use EV if the temperature is good at around 53 SoC. Just give it that tap back into ICE and it somehow learns you don't want to use EV. If it tries again before you're ready, give it another little tap. If the temperature isn't good, I've found I still get a good mpg with a topped up battery, and even at lower speeds and highway. Lifetime per the car figure is now at 49.3 vs 45.2 when I started this stuff a year ago.

KC, why is this such an important issue to you?

It's not really that important in the general scheme of things.

 

Started out as a question as to whether my car had an issue since the AC ran when the climate control said it was off on the windshield vent setting. Not a big deal, but I'd like to be able to control whether AC is used, if it's possible. I'll ask them when I eventually go in for the recall I've been avoiding.

Remind me to stick a label over those buttons with "no" written on it, like in Apollo 13.

 

So bottom line is - Ford or someone assumed defrost/defog needs the compressor to run to dehumidify the cabin. Regardless of whether humidity was the cause. Could just be the cabin air dew point vs the windshield temp, but anyway, it's moisture of some kind, so we need to dehumidify the cabin with the compressor when a quick blast of warm air would do the trick in that situation.

 

What gets me is why it specifically says the AC is off on the control and in MFT when it's not. I get the need to force the use of AC occasionally to keep it in good working order, especially during winter months. Having defrost say AC is on and allow us to turn it off would get the same result. It would run for a bit until we choose to turn it off.

 

Next time I'm in the shop, I'll report it as a bug and see if I can get some manual override out of them. Might get lucky where some combination of button presses gives us the option to have the AC button do what it says instead of looking at the climate usage to see what it's doing.

I think the OP is using the MAX DEFROST button to activate the system and this is why the AC compressor is staying on

until he uses the controller to cycle the system to another setting that allows it to turn the compressor off :noobie:

I use the button at the bottom next to recirc. I have used the max button before, and yes it's more efficient. Button G next to recirc kicks AC in and it won't go off on mine. Had the car for 2 yrs and read the manual during that time. Mine is obviously broken. Thanks.

Whenever you hit the defrost button, it will turn on the compressor. Then you need to turn it off

with the AC off button. Are you stating it stays on after you turn it off with the AC button, after hitting the defrost mode ?

Yup, that's it - windshield button on (am in FL so not so much defrost as defog) - if I press the AC button to turn AC off, it's still running but says it's off. Can hear the compressor and see the drain on the accessory/AC use gauge on the dash. Only way to truly turn the compressor off is to press the defrost button again and go back to it blowing at my face etc. Maybe mine needs another visit to the dealer if this isn't right. It's really not clear since the 2013 hybrid manual was basically the European C-Max manual with hybrid and MFT bits added to it, so it refers to stuff our cars don't have - like a windshield with a heating element in it, and light bulbs that don't exist.. Grr.

I don't have this problem. When I turn off the AC, on the controller, it turns off. I don't run my

system in the recirculation mode, so maybe this is why you're having it stay on.

That's the problem - recirc or not, if it's set to blow out of the windshield vents, the compressor runs and the control says "AC off". The AC button and recirculation buttons don't change whether the AC compressor runs - having the direction button blow at the windshield - AC runs. Maybe mine is jacked up, but after 2 years of ownership, I just decided to post the question here. It's one of those niggling things I decided I should ask about.

It helps to use the compressor, but it's a waste of EV and not required to defrost the windshield. Cars that

don't have AC have no problem defrosting the windshield. It works a little quicker with the dehumidifying action.

Agreed. I've got to the point now where I don't use the windshield vents because it uses the AC compressor. I just turn recirc off and turn off all the vent settings but have it on say 3 or 4 speed, or crack the front windows. Takes a little longer but gets the job done. I think it's a bit underhanded of Ford to have the controls say AC is off when it's not, and the only way we know it's running, is through the electric usage gauge (or compressor buzz). If I want to open the windshield vents and blow warm non-air conditioned air at the windshield, I should really be able to. Like I was on my 78 Mini Cooper, Ford Sierra, Renault Clio, Jeep Liberty, and any rental car I've used. If Ford want to help improve gas mileage on this or future cars, maybe make the AC on/off switch do what the user wants it to do.

Anyone know if there is any progress on this topic? My dealer says a wiring harness costing $900 is required so I won't be working with them. I do not feel competent to do it myself. Striking out finding anyone that can add fog lights to my SE.

I installed fogs on my SE using a third party wiring harness from my post before and an illuminated push button I installed just to the left of the steering wheel. Had a shop here fit it all up as I didn't feel competent installing it myself, and don't have a ramp to get through the firewall to the switch. Works well and wired up correctly, it shuts off the fogs when the high beams are on.

 

It's funny you post this now, as I just bought this:

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00EE4ETN2/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1421697626&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX110_SY165

 

Back to the shop again as I have no clue how to install them. They weren't cheap, but no tax and shipping wasn't bad. They have led DRL's in the fog lamps assembly, fogs, and cornering led's triggered by the turn signals... I'll post back when it's all done.

Yes.... Turn the AC off in the HVAC controller. Push the AC button and the AC compressor will stop running.

And yes, it's by design to use the AC system while in defrost mode.

Yeah, the AC still runs even when it says it's off on the AC control panel. I have to press the windshield vent button again and AC button again to stop the AC from running. I just think mine is messed up :) Since service shops are shut today but dealers are open, I think I'll pop down in the mrs' Rav 4 and show some interest in one of these C-Maxes I hear so much about, and see how that compares with mine :)