Smiling Jack

I will stand corrected re. the max EV speed in the Hybrid. I did not know that, and I apologize for posting incorrect info.. Thank you. Re. the added HP: This is well reported (Ford info and many posts here). In the case of both the Energi and the Hybrid, the electric motor has more HP than the batteries can deliver; so the batteries limit the electric HP. however, the Energi's larger battery pack can deliver about 30 HP more. This makes the Energi quicker. Test one, and you will see what I mean. Re. Fuel cost and pattern of use: With the Energi, you save so much fuel cost in the first 20 miles or so in EV mode, you would need to drive another 200 miles or so in hybrid mode before the slightly better fuel economy of the Hybrid would overcome the initial savings, If your pattern of use were such that If you plug in once a day and exceed the EV range every day, you would need to drive another 70,000 miles or so a year before the Energi would cost more in fuel (gasoline plus electricity) than the Hybrid.

As I recall, the 2014 Escape has roof rails mounted to them, and the Escape body is essentially the same as the C-max (although the Escape roof line takes a little different slope in the rear). I wondred whether the Escape roof rails could simply be mounted on the C-max. Has anyone investigated this?

Easy Argument: According to what I read on this forum, the ones with all the buttons seem to be the ones that have - BY FAR - with the most troubles with dead 12-volt batteries. My preferred strategy: Change plan and convince her go for theC-Max Energi rather than the Hybrid. (The Energi does not come with aall the buttons.) With tax rebate and incentives many report on the Ford C-max Energi Forum ( fordcmaxenergiforum.com ) that The Energi can be bought for essentially the same price as a comparably equipped Hybrid. (It certainly was true in my case.) With this choice you get 30 more horsepower, higher highway speed in EV, far lower fuel consumption, more advanced technology, a 20-mile or more EV range and much, much lower chance of 12-volt battery failure (not only because of the entertainment system choice but because every time you plug in, the system tops off the charge on the 12-volt battery as well).

I am wondering whether the two objectives of (1) low drag and (2) clean rear glass are actually in conflict. It seems possible to me that they are. I have graduate level education in fluid mechanics, but no practical experience in that area. Perhaps someone with specific knowledge on the question could weigh in.

Fouts: Thanks for the post !! Someone posted a thread asking whether anyone had traded a C-max Hybrid in on a C-max Energi. You might want to add to that thread. i traded a Brand X Hybrid in on the C-max Energi and some members here traded Escape Hybrids in on them, and at least one of our members added a C-max Energi to an already owned C-max Hybrid, but you are the first I have seen to make the C-max Hybrid to C-max energi trade; so I think your experience and thoughts would be of great interest. Re. the extra "pep" in EV: That is probably not a model year difference. It is probably an Energi vs. Hybrid difference. The Energi batteries are capable of delivering abour 30 HP more to the electric motor. This is a much overlooked benefit of the Energi over the Hybrid. Re. The disappearance of the chrome on the A/C vent besels, etc. Thanks for mentioning that!!!!!!!!!!!!! . I have mine covered with black pin striping. I may look into repalcing the parts on my 2013 with those for the 2014. Re. the a/C noise disappearance: My guess is that this is just the active noise compensation doing its job. Re. the real world mpg: Energi drivers here have - as I'm sure you have read - have most often posted real world numbers comparable to the Hybrid and often better than the window sticker numbers. Although there is a weight difference and possibly a different rear end ratio and possibly some programming differences favoring the Hybrid, but on the other hand the larger battery pack should let the hybrid mode operation work better in the Energi. I have often thought that these would be pretty small effects and somewhat compensating; so that fundamentally we could expect similar real world numbers between the Energi and the Hybrid. And, after all, what is 1 or 2 mpg difference in Hybrid mode compared to the whopping savings in fuel cost from plugged in EV range? My thinking on this is that once you have driven 20 mileas or so in EV mode you have saved enough fule cost vs, the Hybrid that it would take a couple hundred miles of driving in Hybrid mode at 2 mpg difference (out of 40 mpg or so) to eat up that savings. And very few energi drivers will do 200 miles of Hybrid operation for every 20 EV miles driven on a plugged-in charge.

Many thanks to Nick for taking the trouble to post. Reflects my thoughts exactly. The point is effectively made that the C-max is, in fact, by any objective standard, a compact SUV - quite regardless of what Ford chooses to label it for marketing and market comparison purposes. The label that anyone chooses to put on the car (wagon, hatchback, MUV, etc.), simply does not change what it is. Me thinks of The Bard, i.e. "..............A rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet." To this list we could add Cadillac SRX, a couple of Mazdas, Hyundai Tucson, a couple of Subarus, a Mercedes B class, Nissan Rogue, Honda CRX, Toyota Rav 4, etc. And, importantly, we should add the (new) Escape. (After all, the C-Max is effectively a 2013-14 Escape Hybrid.) The cargo comparison to the Escape would show the amount of cargo space penalty that we should subtract from the others on the list in order to allow for the Hybrid battery and component space requirements.

At 14 months and well under 10,000 miles; my notice has not yet appeared. For me, 2 years will probably pass before 10,000 miles. With the new syntheticoil life recommendations I see that 2 years would be ok. I have an Energi and I hardly drive any ICE miles at all; so I suppose I will always be doing oil changes per the calendar, not per the odometer.

Thanks, Plus 3. Excellent and comprehensive summary. To my eye, from the outside, the new Rogue sems a little smaller than the old. Of course, the new model Escape and C-max cars are a bit smaller than the older Escape and Escape Hybrid cars that they replaced. The new Explorer looks smaller as well. Most car models seem to be shrinking. Global warming effect?

Plus 3, I would very much like to read your personal views on comparison between the Rougue to the C-max - other than mpg. That is, the comparative general suitability of the two cars; space, comfort, handling, ride, pickup, braking, etc.

I support your plan, but where are we going to buy an extended warranty that will not expire before we're done with the cars?

What is the physics of these things?

They had a car in stock in the color I preferred with all of the equipment I wanted, And - most importantly - Price: They advertised $3,000 off of the price at a time when most other dealers in the area were asking essentially sticker price plus they gave me a price on my trade-in (Caamry Hybrid) that was neraly equal to what I had paid for it 2 years prior. They were also the nearest dealer, but honestly I would have driven to the opposite side of the city for the right car at the right price.

Snow Storm, Outstanding. Thanks so much for posting !!!!!! Great idea to use the cell phone video. I used to try to take coast down data on a couple of cars years ago (before cell phones, let alone cell phone video) actually reading a stop watch at just a very few speed points and and using combination of memory and jotting down while driving. I finally gave up because I could not get the right road to be traffic free long enough for the repeats and reverses. Traffic is even worse around here now. I wasn't interested in trying to get drag coefficients, I wanted to measure the horsepower required vs. speed (rolling, aero and total). I may have a shot at what I can do with your data.

Thanks, Tom. Let's not hope for a flat just so that we can measure !

Tom, Please clarify. Does your scissor jack collapse low enough to get under the ac-max jack points with a completely flat tire?

So the tire label for the Hybrid states the payload weight as 209 lbs less than the difference between the Gross allowable and the vehicle weight and the label for the Energi shows it as 285 lbs less. I infer that the tires are the limiting factor in both cases and that in both cases a switch to larger capacity tires would result in a few hundred pounds more payload capability.

Strictly subjective, but low end street speed acceleration in EV mode seems quite brisk to me, and that's by comparison to some big v-8's Ive had. Plus, with ICE plus Electric motor, while the Energi is no drag racer, acceleration seems plenty good for stoplight getaway or for freeway entrance (in fact, EV mode is usually good enough for freewayentrance) and adequate for passing - say from 60 to 70. I expect that highway acceleration form 70 to 90 is probably not good, but I do not think I will be doing that any more in any event.

Hacksaw, sabre saw, reciprocating saw, big file, or some combination of those? Or the brute force solution: Grinder !!

Good guess, thanks

What's that tab supposed to be good for?

To be clear, and for what it is worth: In my 2013 C-max Energi, I do get the chimes if the door is opened with the car "ready to drive" and gear selector in "D" or in any other position, P ,R, N, D, or L. And, I have NOT had the recall service done for this.

Noah, Thanks for this info, I suppose I need to revise my view based on your post, but: 1. The problem for this recall was described in terms of what happens when the "key" is left in the ignition, and others have posted that the recall service made no change in their cars with keyless ignitions. 2. My car (without the recall service) does, in fact, sound tones if the driver's door is opened with the car turned on and ready to drive, regardless of what gear the shifter has selected. What would be the change in this behavior if I had the recall service done?

Rifleman, There is a separate C-Max Energi Forum. Lots of Energi specific info there. To answer your questions directly: I have used only the 120-v charger that came with thecar. Range on a full charge depends not only on driving conditions, but very greatly on climate control system usage. With no heat or A/C use, I often get over 20 miles, but not much more. (Others have managed 30 miles or even more.) With A/C use, 15 miles is more usual for me. With use of heat, my range is about 10 to 15 miles. I usually plug in whenever the car is in the garage. If I have close to a full charge, I sometimes skip it. I have only ever charged up at home. Jack

I failed to mention the A/C performance in my original poste here. I will editiit to include the following: A/C is a very important thing here in Texas. We had many daily highs over 100 degrees here last summer. My C-max puts out colder air than any other car I've ever had. One day last week with outside temperature in the low 90's I measured below 40 degrees at the A/C outlet.

I've finished a year in my 2013 C-Max Energy. I plan to post a report in the Energi forum, but I thought I would post a few comments here on things common to both the Energi and the Hybrid models for the benefit of those focused on the Hybrid who might not frquent the energi Forum. (at one year and 3000 miles) MPG in pure Hybrid mode: varies from low 40's to low 50's on return trips when I have no EV-only battery capacity left because I used all of the EV-only range on the trip out. I presume I would have seen the same with the Hybrid model. Reliability: I have not needed any service or repairs at all. Dead battery: I have not had that problem with this car. I did have that problem several times in my Camry Hybrid's first year of service. Recalls & TSB's: I have had the recall notice for the door chime fix, but since it does not actually do anything with the keyless ignition I have not bothered to get it done. I could use the double-kick hatch opening fix, but it rarely troubles me, so I have not bothered with that either. The headliner fix did not apply to my car, nor did the defective seatback problem. Engine oil: Not changed yet. I plan to switch to the 0W20 synthetic when I change oil. Noises: none. Roominess: Best I've had since my 1975 Coupe Deville. Utility: Best I've had since my 1968 Ford LTD Country Squire. A/C (added April 30): A/C is a very important thing here in Texas. We had many daily highs over 100 degrees here last summer. My C-max puts out colder air than any other car I've ever had. One day last week with outside temperature in the low 90's I measured below 40 degrees at the A/C outlet. Overall experience: Excellent.