ptjones Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Glad to know they're available. I'm a big fan of K&N, been using them since the 70's. Always found an increase in performance and gas mileage (usually about 10%). Stopped once I started leasing. I don't think you will see 10% on a modern car, but anything that makes it easier for an engine to function, will give a performance and mileage boost. If I keep the Energi when it needs a new filter, I will surely put one in. Very pleased with the Energi so far (2 months, 2,000 miles, 80 miles per gallon) Solid German feel. One of the best cars overall that I've owned (Fiat 128, BMW 2002tii, Mercedes 250, 2 Fords - Mystique (great) and Sable (garbage), and a lot of Passats and Golfs.The improvement maybe small but I did it anyway. :) Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdiesel1 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 If you want better airflow from that K&N filter, you'll need to modify the exhaust system too. Air incan't increase unless the air out can too ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 If you want better airflow from that K&N filter, you'll need to modify the exhaust system too. Air incan't increase unless the air out can too ;)Changing the exhaust system would be a major expense if it could be done. K&N was easy. Improving MPG's comes mostly in small steps. :) Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdiesel1 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Changing the exhaust system would be a major expense if it could be done. K&N was easy. Improving MPG's comes mostly in small steps. :) PaulI understand that, but adding a high-flow AF isn't doing anything without an unrestricted outlet from the engine.It's like adding a cam to a hot rod and keeping the same stock intake and exhaust. It's a waste of time and money. Opening the exhaust flow will make the AF flow better. Sure, you might gain something, but until the other end ismatched it's an unbalanced setup and your not getting the full affect. ptjones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian_L Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 The K&N debate has been going on for years, but basically the consensus is: 1. It basically does what it says it does---lets the car breath a bit easier WITHOUT additional modifications. 2. It also lets more dirt in than a paper filter 3. You might get a slight increase in power and economy---but nothing near 5 mpg. 4. Your air flow sensor is safe. I have put them in VW busses and GMC vans but can't say I have noticed a difference. Redshift 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I would look at testing the difference in mine in and out, but I'm not looking forward to abusing my hands again. LOL :) Paul drdiesel1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdiesel1 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 The K&N debate has been going on for years, but basically the consensus is: 1. It basically does what it says it does---lets the car breath a bit easier WITHOUT additional modifications. 2. It also lets more dirt in than a paper filter 3. You might get a slight increase in power and economy---but nothing near 5 mpg. 4. Your air flow sensor is safe. I have put them in VW busses and GMC vans but can't say I have noticed a difference.Don't bank on it :spend: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I understand that, but adding a high-flow AF isn't doing anything without an unrestricted outlet from the engine.It's like adding a cam to a hot rod and keeping the same stock intake and exhaust. It's a waste of time and money. Opening the exhaust flow will make the AF flow better. Sure, you might gain something, but until the other end ismatched it's an unbalanced setup and your not getting the full affect.The only cautionary note here is that we know next to nothing about the airflow in or out of this vehicle. So I don't think we can say with any degree of confidence that you NEED to replace the exhaust system to benefit from a high flow filter or that a high flow filter will even help. Besides, would you really want your nice CMax to sound like a fart-can equipped ricer from 1999? lol I postulate that it will work like most other import cars in that it will make slightly more HP in a particular part of the curve but over a very short portion of usable RPM. This is compared to a clean OEM filter. Obviously a dirty filter is going to be worse. A simple drop in K&N probably wouldn't even make a detectable difference on a chassis dyno. The run variance would probably create too much "noise" in the data. That's based on my experience dynoing hundreds of LS1 equipped cars and trucks, more than a few Mustangs and selling import performance parts. Still, that doesn't mean I know anything about the CMax. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdiesel1 Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Don't forget about the Atkinson cycle of these engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F8L Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Don't forget about the Atkinson cycle of these engines.Agreed. My only experience with Atkinson engines is based on my 3 Prii and only one of them did I drag race and play around with filter configurations. Slow is slow no matter what kind of filter you use. lol drdiesel1 and ptjones 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPL Tech Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 I have to wonder though, if FE gains in excess of 20% are available by simply changing the air filter, why wouldn't the car companies put them in at the factory? Because they dont. Air filters rarely improve MPG. They are most useful at wide open throttle. Why risking damaging the MAF sensor to save maybe $40 in filters over 120000 miles? If you have to have the dealer replace that sensor, dont be supprised if they try to charge you $1000. If you went to vegas and bet $1000 on slots and the machine said you have some chance of winning $40 and some chance of loosing $1000, but nothing in between, would you take that bet? Pretty shitty bet to take... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian_L Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Oh right......the quarts and quarts of oil flying off the K&N filter into your MAF sensor. I'm surprised nobody has tried to cook french fries in there. Another urban myth. wab and ptjones 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugblndr Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) In my garage is a 2000 Trans Am with 90,000 miles on it, 87,000 of them with a K&N filter on it. My previous car to that was a Grand Prix with 60,000 miles on it. I never had a MAF issue with either. IMO, issues are caused by over oiling the filter and reinstalling the filter without letting the filter have time to properly absorb the oil. I've known a couple of people who have set MAF related codes because of that. A QTIP and some rubbing alcohol fixed their issue. Edited January 13, 2015 by Bugblndr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian_L Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 I believe K&N are still waiting to see the first sensor with any K&N oil on it. There's pretty conclusive info on their website about high pressure testing of their filters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Because they dont. Air filters rarely improve MPG. They are most useful at wide open throttle. Why risking damaging the MAF sensor to save maybe $40 in filters over 120000 miles? If you have to have the dealer replace that sensor, dont be supprised if they try to charge you $1000. If you went to vegas and bet $1000 on slots and the machine said you have some chance of winning $40 and some chance of loosing $1000, but nothing in between, would you take that bet? Pretty shitty bet to take...Actually Air Filter System can make a big difference, look at Post #27,29,37 and 40 on this thread. As far as the CMAX goes I didn't notice much, less than a mile per gallon. I'm not disappointed I did it, every little bit helps. :) Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian_L Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Atta boy. If I do decide to put one in myself I'll take your advice and wear gloves. Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Atta boy. If I do decide to put one in myself I'll take your advice and wear gloves. AdrianDon't get in a rush, you have to push ,pull, twist and bend a little to do it. Use strong gloves, alot of sharp spots under there, I didn't and payed for it. LOL :gaah: Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotozuk Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 For those that have a K&N and some miles on it, try this simple test. Pull off the filter and rub your finger down the filtered intake and see how much grit you find. I used to use K&N on all of my cars, but after finding dirt in all of my intakes (4x4s that saw a lot of dirt roads and street cars) I stopped using them. They were not doing the one thing they are supposed to do, FILTER. As far as a K&N messing up a MAS, I doubt it. You do not need to keep the filter dripping with oil. Though I have seen more than a few owners that would oil the filter way too often. By the way, you need to check the flow of an oiled filter after it has been in use for a few thousand miles. They need to collect some dirt (in the oil) to reach full filtering capability. LOL A lot of folks fail to do this when they flow test them. Correct me if I am wrong, but K&N used to warn users not to clean them very often as you would wash away the important dirt. I'll be sticking with the good old paper filters. No issues with those. They are cheap, they work, and they will not void warranty. -Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 For those that have a K&N and some miles on it, try this simple test. Pull off the filter and rub your finger down the filtered intake and see how much grit you find. I used to use K&N on all of my cars, but after finding dirt in all of my intakes (4x4s that saw a lot of dirt roads and street cars) I stopped using them. They were not doing the one thing they are supposed to do, FILTER. As far as a K&N messing up a MAS, I doubt it. You do not need to keep the filter dripping with oil. Though I have seen more than a few owners that would oil the filter way too often. By the way, you need to check the flow of an oiled filter after it has been in use for a few thousand miles. They need to collect some dirt (in the oil) to reach full filtering capability. LOL A lot of folks fail to do this when they flow test them. Correct me if I am wrong, but K&N used to warn users not to clean them very often as you would wash away the important dirt. I'll be sticking with the good old paper filters. No issues with those. They are cheap, they work, and they will not void warranty. -WayneHave you tried replacing your filter yet? It is a very annoying job and I scratched my hands doing it. At this point I'm leaning towards just leaving the K&N filter in there until I get rid of the car, the filtering should get better as time goes by. LOL :) Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotozuk Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Have you tried replacing your filter yet? It is a very annoying job and I scratched my hands doing it. At this point I'm leaning towards just leaving the K&N filter in there until I get rid of the car, the filtering should get better as time goes by. LOL :) PaulHa! I haven't even lifted the hood on my C-max. I have all of 200 miles on it. I hope to god I won't have to wrench on this car. I bought new so I wouldn't have to. Trust me, I have done my share of wrenching on other vehicles, even built my own from the ground up, all suspension, chassis, etc. Cutting, bending, welding.. You get the idea. Now I don't have to. :) -Wayne ptjones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I have a little different perspective with 89K miles on mine. LOL :) Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian_L Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 With my luck, I'd probably electrocute myself on the HVB doing DIY work. I'll stick to fiddling on my GMC camper.Would like to try to install one of these in an old Karmann Ghia (or VW Thing, or MGB GT) http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=220 But that's a post for another time... ptjones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techman05 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Have you tried replacing your filter yet? It is a very annoying job and I scratched my hands doing it. At this point I'm leaning towards just leaving the K&N filter in there until I get rid of the car, the filtering should get better as time goes by. LOL :) PaulI didn't have any issues removing mine. Very tight in and out though. The intake is the most pain and the path into the engine popped off on bothe ends. I didn't though notice the sensor was a squeeze clip the first few times and I ended up breaking the plastic clip (they don't have a harness with metal clips). Watch the you tube videos first and you should have no issues. Just remember the screws are secure screws and have an electric drill to reduce the monitany with them. ptjones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptjones Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) I have 121K mi. now using an K&N filter most of them. Did Blackstone Oil sample analyst and everything was fine and I'm not using any oil. :yahoo: Paul Edited January 10, 2016 by ptjones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackalopetx Posted May 5, 2016 Report Share Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) I'm surprised no one has posted this... K&N filters let more dirt through. They are less good at filtering. That's how they're designed. K&N have much less surface area, so to compensate the pores are bigger. As if common sense weren't enough, this has been proven by empirical testing.http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html Edited May 5, 2016 by jackalopetx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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