Virginia Hybrid Tax

[joe]

Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell is putting a yearly $65 tax on hybrids because they don't use as much gasoline as regular cars, and therefore, pay less road tax.  That is like taxing people who don't speed and thus don't pay traffic fines that support law enforcement.

In our local paper, someone placed the following view in the local paper.  Thought Hybriders would enjoy:

 

Taxing Hybrids A Great Idea?
When my son pur­chased a hybrid car in 2003, the state offered as an incen­tive a special tag that al­lowed all such cars to drive in the high-occupancy ve­hcile lanes with only one person in the car. The hy­brid was good. Later, the special tag was no longer offered because many peo­ple, as well as the state, saw the inherent value of going green and saving gas. We bought our cars with those values in mind. The hybrid was good.

Now, the state (VIrginia) has de­clared that the hybrid car is bad, we should be pun­ished for owning one. The state declared that a fine of $100 would be appropriate. Our governor thought that $64 would be a better arbi­trary fine.

We are so fortunate to have such a benevolent and wise man as our governor. How many other governors would have such compas­sion for those who do bad things? Gov. Bob McDon­nell (VIrginia) realizes the redemp­tive power of a wisely ad­ministered tax and is a firm believer in letting the punishment fit the crime. We hybrid owners will be forever grateful for his wis­dom and grace in reducing our fine from $100 to $64 for driving a car that is not in the best interest of the state. We are pleased that this compassionate gover­nor does not see all hybrid owners as hopeless wretch­es beyond the power of true redemption: no, he believes that in carefully tempering our punishment, we will not only be grateful for this undeserved gift but we will also go forth and strive to do better.

As the owner of a hybrid, I can only admire the dedi­cation and patriotism of those people who buy the real gas- guzzlers. Even though they realize that hy­brid owners are rightfully fined for using less gas than the average car, they do not demand a rebate from the state for using more gas than the average car. The less heroic among us would think that if one is to be punished for using less gas, the opposite should follow and the ones that use more gas than the average car should be rewarded. No, they soldier on, spewing more hydrocarbons and pol­lution, and doing more envi­ronmental damage. They do not get angry. They do not write letters or sign peti­tions. They are made of sterner stuff than us feck­less hybrid owners. They do not seek honors and acco­lades. They are serene in the knowledge that virtue is its own reward. They es­chew all recognition for their sacrifice and are satis­fied in the knowledge that for every one of those extra trips to the gas pump, they are making Virginia a bet­ter place.

As a humble attempt at atonement, and as a ges­ture toward the recognition of the heroic sacrifice the owners of gas-guzzling cars are making on behalf of a better Virginia, I suggest the governor authorize a “governor’s award of excel­lence” for all the owners of gas-guzzling cars. It could be as simple as a decal placed on the windshield of such vehicles. Surely this is not too much to ask in light of such selfless sacrifice.

As our governor has shown me the error of my ways, I will pay the fine. I will learn from this punish­ment. I will not let our gov­ernor down. When I pur­chase my next car, I here by resolve to buy the car with the lowest miles per gallon rating, I will spew as many hydrocarbons into our air as possible, I will do as much damage to the envi­ronment as the car allows. I will do my best to make Vir­ginia energy dependent.

Mr. Coulter lives in Har­risonburg.

As the owner of a hybrid, I urge all hybrid owners to join me in this crusade. We must not let our governor down. We can do it. Are we bereft of patriotism? Are we lacking in moral fiber? Are we going to evade our duty? No, in solidarity with our brethren who drive gas­guzzling cars, we can make Virginia a better place…and maybe get a decal for it.

Mr. Coulter lives in Har­risonburg.

[colea]

Wow! Seems to me that Mr. Coulter has truly mastered the art of irony in his letter.

[VirginiaRick]

Wow! Seems to me that Mr. Coulter has truly mastered the art of irony in his letter.

 

He's only about 30 miles up the road from me -- I want him on MY side! :worship:

 

VR

[Edsel]

Will the TDI be next?

[zhackwyatt]

Calling a Tax a punishment is interesting.

 

His argument seems mainly based on environmental reasons.  That's what has always bothered me about the "hybrid community".  That somehow your evil if you choose to drive a Gas Guzzler.  I'm the owner of both a Gas Guzzler and a hybrid, what does that make me?

[VirginiaRick]

..I'm the owner of both a Gas Guzzler and a hybrid, what does that make me?

 

Bipolar?

[C-MAXER]

Yes, an additional tax on hybrids is truly punishing good social behavior and makes no sense.  What's next?  I know!  How about taxing the tea of Virginia Baptists, Mormons, and other abstainers because they don't drink heavily taxed alcohol? :redcard:

Edited April 16, 2013 by C-MAXER

[zhackwyatt]

Yes, an additional tax on hybrids is truly punishing good social behavior and makes no sense.  What's next?  I know!  How about taxing the tea of Virginia Baptists, Mormons, and other abstainers because they don't drink heavily taxed alcohol? :redcard:

Well then, taxing my income is punishment for making money...oh wait, that's exactly what it is :) http://fairtax.org

 

I'm not a proponent of using the tax code to manipulate behavior.

[plus 3 golfer]

I always find it amusing that some feel privileged and should be excused from paying a fair share for the use of public roads.

[Hatchman]

I always find it amusing that some feel privileged and should be excused from paying a fair share for the use of public roads.

 

I always find it amusing when someone makes a comment or has an opinion on a tax they don't have to pay.  

 

And it is not a "fair share", hybrid owners will have to pay $64 more a year than a regular car, regardless of the MPG they are capable of.  

 

Compare a TDI getting 40 mpg and a hybrid getting 40 mpg, but the hybrid would have to pay an extra $64 a year tax.  That is not paying your "fair share", that is paying more just because you drive a hybrid.  

 

 

Officials Say Reduced Hybrid Tax Still Unfair

http://ashburn.patch.com/articles/officials-say-reduced-hybrid-tax-still-unfair-7f07019d

 

“While the Governor reduced the tax, he should have eliminated it,” Surovell said in a statement. “Basing a tax on a specific technology does not make sense when the mileage of hybrid vehicles ranges from 19 to 60 MPG. There are many gas-powered vehicles that get better mileage than many hybrids.  If the Governor wants an additional tax to pay for road damage, he should focus on vehicle weight.” 

Edited April 16, 2013 by Hatchman

[C-Maxgo]

I always find it amusing that some feel privileged and should be excused from paying a fair share for the use of public roads.

I don't think it's that we feel privileged. I don't have any children and have been paying school taxes all my life.

 

I'd like to add that I don't mind one iota that I pay taxes that I don't use.

Edited April 16, 2013 by bsmax

[lowbar]

The irony is that this is a gas tax.  Now the State of Virginia is saying if you don't use enough gas we're going to give you a 'gas sippers' tax.

[JAZ]

I shudder to think of what the tax on bicycles may someday be...

[wab]

I always find it amusing that some feel privileged and should be excused from paying a fair share for the use of public roads.

 

Bicycles?

[C-MAXER]

 

I always find it amusing that some feel privileged and should be excused from paying a fair share for the use of public roads.

My motorcycle(s) get just as good of mpg as my hybrids and better than every other car I've owned. I didn't realize I've been so privileged all these years.

Edited April 17, 2013 by C-MAXER

[plus 3 golfer]

The irony is that this is a gas tax.  Now the State of Virginia is saying if you don't use enough gas we're going to give you a 'gas sippers' tax.

It's not a gas tax. It's a road use tax collected on each gallon of fuel sold. An equivalent gas, diesel, EV, or hybrid vehicle should pay the same amount of tax for use of the roads.

[plus 3 golfer]

I always find it amusing when someone makes a comment or has an opinion on a tax they don't have to pay.  

 

And it is not a "fair share", hybrid owners will have to pay $64 more a year than a regular car, regardless of the MPG they are capable of.  

 

Compare a TDI getting 40 mpg and a hybrid getting 40 mpg, but the hybrid would have to pay an extra $64 a year tax.  That is not paying your "fair share", that is paying more just because you drive a hybrid.  

 

 

Officials Say Reduced Hybrid Tax Still Unfair

http://ashburn.patch.com/articles/officials-say-reduced-hybrid-tax-still-unfair-7f07019d

 

“While the Governor reduced the tax, he should have eliminated it,” Surovell said in a statement. “Basing a tax on a specific technology does not make sense when the mileage of hybrid vehicles ranges from 19 to 60 MPG. There are many gas-powered vehicles that get better mileage than many hybrids.  If the Governor wants an additional tax to pay for road damage, he should focus on vehicle weight.” 

LOL, why, it's very obvious that there are some that believe their use of the roads should be subsidized by less fuel efficient equivalent vehicles. I agree with a weight use tax. So, it's your state make your voice heard where it counts.

[SnowStorm]

Just a minute now.  Maybe we should stop reading all the "informed commentary" out there and read the bill (it is on line you know).

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?131+ful+CHAP0766

 

The following definition is included:

" "Hybrid electric motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle that uses electricity and another source of motive power."

 

I'm no linguist but this had better mean a "plug-in hybrid".  That is, a car that uses "electricity" as a source of motive power and "another" source of motive power.

If it gets interpreted to mean the "standard" hybrid (all motive energy comes from gasoline), then its lawsuit time.  I've seen it called the "Prius tax" and it certainly sounds like its being popularly viewed as applying to all hybrids, plug-in or not.  Hopefully this is just an early misinterpretation (intentional or not).

 

(BTW, it seems to me that the above definition would include electric bicycles!  So JAZ, we had better watch out!)

 

An example seems in order.  Take the EPA 15,000 miles per year, and $3.50/gal with the new 3.5% tax rate.  A normal "good citizen" 40 mpg gasoline car pays $45.94 per year gas tax.  A "bad citizen" hybrid car (still all gasoline) that also gets 40 mpg pays $64 + $45.94 = $109.94, or 2.4 times the "good guy".  (Mr Coulter is rubbing off on me.)  Drop the yearly mileage to 2000 miles (your grandma perhaps).  "Good" grammy pays $6.74.  "Bad" grammy pays $70.74, or 10.5 times as much on her fixed income.  Even if you up the hybrid's MPG somewhat, the payment is still wildly disproportionate.  Again, "all-gasoline" hybrids had better not be included in this bill!

 

But we still have the Energi as a "Virginia Legal Hybrid" or VLH.  I leave specific examples as "an exercise for the reader" but it still comes out pretty lousy.  If you use no gasoline at all, you pay $64 a year which equates to about 21,000 miles worth of taxes in the non-hybrid.  At 21 miles per charge that's 1000 full charges.  Your going to have a lot of fun cramming 3 charges plus 63 miles into each day!  (A pure electric would have to go 57 miles per day.)

 

But as the man said, we can still thank the Governor for saving us $36 per year! :salute:  (Actually, the rate was $50, went to $100, then $64.  Go figure.)

There are other "interesting" things in the bill but enough for now.

[C-MAXER]

Snowstorm, what if you don't plug in your plug-in? How about if u can plug in at work vs. can't? There can be a huge difference in overall mpg's in these scenarios.......

 

 

It's a very slippery slope here.

[lowbar]

It's not a gas tax. It's a road use tax collected on each gallon of fuel sold. An equivalent gas, diesel, EV, or hybrid vehicle should pay the same amount of tax for use of the roads.

 

Sorry, that's a gas tax, it's based on gallons bought.  If it was a road use tax it would be based on miles driven.

Edited April 17, 2013 by lowbar

[plus 3 golfer]

Sorry, that's a gas tax, it's based on gallons bought.  If it was a road use tax it would be based on miles driven.

I suggest you look it up. I have no problem referring to it as a "gas tax" provided people understand it's history and that it really is a road use tax.  A convenient method to collect the road use tax when it was implemented was to place it on fuel sold.

 

The OP posted a letter written by Mr.Coulter who IMHO feels privileged evidently because he owns a hybrid (apparently Mr. Coulter purchased the vehicle because of the "inherent value of going green and saving gas" ) and takes offense at now having to pay more for using the road than he otherwise would under the old method of collecting the road tax.  Mr. Coulter offers no alternatives and letters like his are of little value in solving a problem.  

 

The issue IMHO is really not about a $ amount as much as it is about how to collect for the use of the roads in a fair way. VA method does single out a specific type of vehicle but it's a start (albeit maybe not a good start).  A weight / mileage basis would seem to be better but implementation would not be easy. Also, simply licensing a vehicle means road are built and those roads need to be maintained regardless of how many miles one drives or how much fuel one uses.  So, a fixed component of the road use tax also makes sense. IMHO, a better solution would have been to add a graduated tax based on EPA fuel economy (for lack of anything better) on all vehicles.  So, even a gas-guzzling vehicle (also likely heavier) pays a fixed amount per year in addition to the current tax on fuel. A more fuel efficient vehicle would pay a higher fixed amount but at least now all share in the revenue shortfall. 

 

In addition, study after study has shown that damage to roads is not a linear relationship with weight.  Here's one quoted by the Va. Bicycling Federation  "road damage from one 18-wheeler is equivalent to 9600 cars".  I highly doubt we will ever see an 18 wheeler pay 9600 times what a car pays in road use tax or even say 2400 times based on say a 4X FE ratio of the average car  vs 18 wheeler and the current road tax collection method. Someone has to pay for revenue shortfalls from the tax on fuel, as fuel economy increases.

[plus 3 golfer]

Bicycles?

Why would a bicycle pay anything? They cause virtually no damage to roads. Wait, I guess we should tax them since we have to paint those bicycle lanes on the roadways :).

Edited April 17, 2013 by Plus 3 Golfer

[JohnnOhio]

I'll just start riding my horses everywhere and get a Amish buggy for the winter

[SnowStorm]

Don't feed it two different kinds of "fuel" or they'll slap a hybrid tax on it!  And look out for hybrid oats - stick to heirloom varieties only!

[joe]

There is another tax problem for Virginia hybrid owners.  A hybrid cars cost more than comperable gasoline powered vehicles.  For example, Ford Fusion hybrid is $27K vs. gasoline Fusion $21K. Governor should take the additional sales tax revenue for his transportation fund instead of adding more taxes.

 

Now, $64 dollars isn't going to break the bank each year but it is the principle. But the tax seems to be so arbitary against just one class of vehicle.  And finally, this is a Republican Governor... what happened to the Republican platform of no new taxes????