Stop Safety Now on Ford C-MAX Energi 2013

[Valerii123]

Sorry for my English. I'm refugee from Ukraine, I'm only 5 months here and learning English everyday. So, I use Google-translator. 

 

I will try to describe the situation in detail. Sorry for the long text.

1. The message Stop Safety Now (hereinafter referred to as SSN) appears on the screen in a red rectangle and under the message there is a red triangle with an exclamation mark. The SSN message is accompanied by a complete engine shutdown. So far I've been lucky and the engine has only cut out once on the highway. Near the curb and I was able to stop and wait. After 15 minutes the car started and I drove home. After the first time, I drove around the city for some time and the SSN message did not appear. But the check engine sign appeared.

The other 7-8 times SSN error happened on a long trip, a week later. The SSN message did not appear on highways, but on a simple road, and I was able to park on the side of the road and wait (5-6 times one day and 2 times another day). These 7-8 times happened on a long trip.

The last 2 times were at the very beginning of the journey, after the car had been idle for a day. The first time I didn’t drive even 200 meters from the parking lot, the second time - after a couple of kilometers. Therefore, I don’t see a connection with a heavy load and a long journey.

 

2. I noticed that the problem only occurs when braking (that is, the error never occurred if I pressed the gas pedal or if I did not press any pedals).
There is a feeling that it is connected to turning right when braking. I can tell in detail how this happened, if it helps to understand the situation.

 

3. Turning the car off and on does not clear the SSN error. After the error occurs, I pull over to the side of the road and wait. 5-15 minutes pass and the SSN error disappears. In the last two cases, I noticed that after the same 5-15 minutes (after switching the car off), somewhere under the hood there was a short and quiet “rumbling” of some kind of motor (like some mechanism were moving). The last time an SSN error occurred, I turned off the car and after such a “rumbling” sound I turned on the car and this SSN error did not occur.
There is a feeling that some time after turning off the machine, some mechanism is triggered, which leads to the reset of this error.

 

4. After the error disappears, the engine starts and the car can be driven. But I observed 2 options for display on the screen and behavior of the car:

 

Option 1 - only the "check engine" light is on. The car drives, but the "check engine" light is on and the SSN error may repeat (the SSN message appears and the engine turns off). In this case, the battery indication “0ml” very often appears. When driving, the transition to electric power is displayed on the screen (I won’t say that it is very correct, but it is displayed).

 

Option 2 - the “check engine” light is on and the image of a "wrench" and the message “read the manual” also light up. In this case, the SSN error no longer appears and I can drive for a long time, accelerate, brake, turn, but the engine does not turn off and the SSN message does not appear. At the same time, I noticed that the indication of the hybrid system begins to produce conflicting information:
- definitely does NOT indicate the electric motor is turned on. Although, at the end of the trip, when the car is turned off, the consumption shows from 39 to 46 MPG (which is hardly possible on gasoline alone).
- when braking, it sometimes shows or does not show the charging process from recuperation (shows different indications for several minutes).
- the battery image changes before my eyes. Either it shows a smaller battery and its charge level (for example, 2/3 or 3/4, but without numbers), then instead of this battery an image of a slightly larger battery appears and inside it the text “0ml” or “1ml”. And literally after a couple of minutes it can again show a smaller battery, without numbers and with a charge level of 2/3 or 3/4. All this happens while driving, without any action on my part (except for accelerating or slowing down, but without stopping or turning off the car).

 

In addition, the following was noticed (I compare the behavior of the car with the same model, which I drove for 2 months and did not see such situations):
1) Sometimes. When I drive very slowly (I slow down at a stop sign, in a traffic jam, or near the curb to park), periodic jolts occur in the car. It’s as if some mechanism is trying to connect and it’s not working. Then I accelerate, the shocks disappear and may not appear the next time I brake. But this is clearly felt in the “toffee”, when you constantly drive slowly. This does not always happen, and more often - when the "check engine" and "wrench" signals are on.
A couple of times it happened that these tremors turned into some kind of strong detonation-vibration. I stopped on the side of the road, turned off the car for a few minutes and the vibration disappeared.

2) The remaining battery charge indicator does not work logically. For example, I can stop and the battery will show 3/4. I turn off the car. I turn it on after a few minutes and the battery shows less than 10%.
Or I can come home in the evening and when I turn it off, it shows me a residual charge of about 20%, but in the morning, when I turn on the car, the battery is more than half charged (although I didn’t charge it at night).

 

I don't use electrical charging at all.

 

I would really appreciate your help!

[Valerii123]

In addition to the first post.

 

Sometimes the check engine light goes off. For example, today I came home and the check engine light was on. But I went into the apartment, and 10 minutes later I returned and turned on the car - the check engine light no longer came on. And this happens often.

 

Today, while driving at a very low speed, I sometimes felt slight jolts. It looks like the recuperator is trying to connect, but it’s not working.
In another discussion on this forum I read a post by the respected "plus 3 golfer". Here is part of his message:
"Limited Operating Strategy (LOS) Modes
The PCM may initiate one or more of the LOS modes for some hybrid electric system concerns. The objective of the LOS modes are to manage vehicle operation after one or more of the following systems are disabled due to a concern:
- engine
- transmission
- high voltage traction battery
- regenerative brake system".

 

These slight jolts and vibrations are very similar to a regenerative brake system problem.

 

But I don't know enough about cars to say that. I'm just an engineer.

[jestevens]

You may need to take the car in to get it scanned by Ford..  it's hard to say with no diagnostic codes.  Another person recently posted similar .. maybe transmission issue or if you are lucky maybe a brake switch ?

 

I say because it's bucking without you hitting the brake but it's all speculation until you get some codes.

[nogoodbum]

From the effects that you are getting, IMO, it sounds as if your 12v battery is failing or borderline. A voltage drop even while driving will spark the SSN message & may go away when battery recovers. When voltage drops, stored codes are being erased. If you can hook-up a voltmeter, I believe you should get 13.5+ volts ICE on or in ACC mode. ICE & ACC mode off, 11+ volts. [please others with more knowledge chime in with better volt numbers]. You can check for a voltage drop when you put on breaks & hopefully it is a brake light short causing problems. Again this is just IMO, no sure fix. Hope this helps. Thanks for the read.

[cr08]

On 10/28/2023 at 8:34 AM, nogoodbum said:

From the effects that you are getting, IMO, it sounds as if your 12v battery is failing or borderline. A voltage drop even while driving will spark the SSN message & may go away when battery recovers. When voltage drops, stored codes are being erased. If you can hook-up a voltmeter, I believe you should get 13.5+ volts ICE on or in ACC mode. ICE & ACC mode off, 11+ volts. [please others with more knowledge chime in with better volt numbers]. You can check for a voltage drop when you put on breaks & hopefully it is a brake light short causing problems. Again this is just IMO, no sure fix. Hope this helps. Thanks for the read.

 

The ICE running or not makes no difference to voltage. As long as the car is on/in 'Ready to Drive' mode, the DC-DC converter is fully active. Full running should be 14+V. There's also a secondary mode not many are aware of (I only found out after digging deep into the workshop manuals) that when the car is 'awake' by opening the door, unlocking, etc. without actually starting, the DC-DC converter does come online in a kind of baseline/failsafe mode (essentially no input from the vehicle what the desired charging voltage is) that puts out around 13v or so.

[nogoodbum]

Thanks cr08 for the info, I knew someone out knew more than I did about the voltage #s. My suggestion of a bad 12v battery is based on my experience with one. First SSN message stopped at light, second, driving at 55mph, third. driving at 30mph. Ford dealer service center was never able to get the problem to reoccur & had no codes to tell them what to check. They spent 10 weeks total "looking" for the cause. The last week was waiting for their transmission tech, thinking that was the cause. He or somebody finally checked the 12v battery & found it was bad. I believe they did not think it was the problem because it was "only" a year old from when they sold & installed it.  I believe the battery had been sitting in their stock for years prior to install but I'm not a "Ford certified tech". Hope this helps & thanks for the read.

[Valerii123]

On 10/28/2023 at 5:34 AM, nogoodbum said:

From the effects that you are getting, IMO, it sounds as if your 12v battery is failing or borderline. A voltage drop even while driving will spark the SSN message & may go away when battery recovers. When voltage drops, stored codes are being erased. If you can hook-up a voltmeter, I believe you should get 13.5+ volts ICE on or in ACC mode. ICE & ACC mode off, 11+ volts. [please others with more knowledge chime in with better volt numbers]. You can check for a voltage drop when you put on breaks & hopefully it is a brake light short causing problems. Again this is just IMO, no sure fix. Hope this helps. Thanks for the read.

Replaced the battery with a new one. But it didn't help. The SSN problem appeared 2 times within 10 minutes after replacing the battery.

I have noticed that the SSN problem only occurs if I press the brake for a long time while driving at high speed. This problem has never occurred while driving around town at low speeds.

[jestevens]

I mean, bad brake switch input or a wonky speed sensor could do this probably .. the car would rather shut down than cause a collision.  Do you hear any mechanical clunking when you step on brakes?  The engine stops and starts normally?

 

Just guesses without a code scan.

Edited November 12, 2023 by jestevens

[Valerii123]

On 11/12/2023 at 4:55 AM, jestevens said:

I mean, bad brake switch input or a wonky speed sensor could do this probably .. the car would rather shut down than cause a collision.  Do you hear any mechanical clunking when you step on brakes?  The engine stops and starts normally?

 

Just guesses without a code scan.

Thanks for your interest in my problem. I don't understand well the processes happening in the car. So I can't tell if the engine stops and starts normally or not. Sometimes the engine starts with a sound similar to a quiet roar. But usually it starts very quietly.

 

As for the mechanical knock when pressing the brake. The problem looks like this: I'm driving at high speeds (about 50 mph or more). I need to slow down a lot because I need to get off the highway or stop because of traffic ahead. I press the brake hard and for a long time (not briefly). Then I feel one blow on the brake pedal, the engine stalls and the steering wheel becomes difficult to turn.

 

On the other side. When the battery is very low and I am driving at a very low speed, I feel frequent jolts. It seems that some mechanism is trying to turn on, but cannot. When I increase the speed, these shocks disappear.
When the battery charge level increases, these shocks do not appear at low speed.

 

I made an appointment for diagnostics at the official Ford service center on Monday morning. I will await their information.

[jestevens]

Yeah, that's not normal -- I would take it to the dealer to diagnose sooner rather than later before you have a serious problem on the road.  If it is expecting power to be there from the hybrid system and it's been disabled, either because of the HV battery or transmission malfunction ..

[Valerii123]

I took the car to an official service center for diagnostics. They performed diagnostics from Monday 13 November until Tuesday 21 November. At the end they gave me a conclusion: "First, the main computer needs to be replaced. If this does not help, then replace the main battery."

[jestevens]

Hmmm.  I would have thought maybe something with transmission but if the car is expecting to be able to switch to HV or regen and all the sudden there is a fault then maybe it makes sense.

[Valerii123]

On 11/26/2023 at 1:02 PM, jestevens said:

Хм. Я бы подумал, может быть, что-то с трансмиссией, но если машина ожидает, что сможет переключиться на HV или рекуперацию, и внезапно возникает неисправность, то, возможно, это имеет смысл.

I very much doubt the conclusions of the official service. It seems to me that they made this conclusion only because I would not agree to such an expensive repair. When I asked - what if this doesn’t help? They answered - we will look further. It doesn't sound like they are confident in their decision.
Plus, I think they do a good job of repairing common problems. But they cannot repair something that is difficult and comes across rarely.
I found a repairman who specializes in repairing FORD C-MAX. I hope he will be more non-formal in diagnosing my car. (Sorry for my bad English).

Edited November 27, 2023 by Valerii123
grammar errors