MSRP, Invoice, Dealers, Salesmen, Internet Pricing . . . Help!

[Altazi]

Greetings All,

 

I have decided upon a 2013 C-Max Hybrid SEL with 303A package and panoramic fixed-glass roof.  Building this on the Ford website shows me an MSRP of $32,235 (includes destination $795.)  I visited a local dealer and spent 1.5 hours with a salesperson.  Their closest match to my desired C-Max included a couple of extra items I don't care about, the "interior protection package" - basically floormats for $170 - and the "cargo management package" - a cargo net and a plastic bin for $115.  The MSRP for this vehicle is $33,520  He was friendly, but I was only able to negotiate down to a price of $31,882 - a savings of only $1,638, or 4.87%.  The salesman said that their invoice price for this vehicle was $31,682, and they added only a $200 profit.  They let me walk out the door rather than try to improve on that deal.

 

Looking at several websites showed me an invoice price of $31,137 for this same vehicle - $545 lower than what the salesman said.

 

Adding to the confusion are the numbers I see at places like TrueCar.com, Edmunds, etc.  These numbers are significantly lower than the "invoice" price quoted by the dealer.

 

The final bit of confusion I picked up at a Toyota dealer - I was also looking at a Prius V Five.  The MSRP for that vehicle was $36,740; the local dealer had what they called "no bull" pricing - which was an 8.412% discount off of MSRP.  For what it's worth, I have a very good impression of this dealer.  Anyway, if I take that same discount and apply it to the Ford MSRP for the vehicle I built, I get a price of $30,700 - pretty darned close to the $30,713 I got as a "target price" from TrueCar.com.

 

My questions are: How can I ever know if I am getting a good "deal?"  Are these Internet prices too good to be true?  I don't want to leave a kilobuck on the table if I don't have to!  I welcome advice, comments, and suggestions from those with more information and experience than I possess.  Thank you in advance!

[salsaguy]

Edmunds.com is a good source.

if you are an AAA member or costco member you can do even better at the price and they can't argue with you as they have their one no hassle price but you should comparison shop the one price from one dealer with another local dealer to see if they can beat the first dealers price.try the AAA site as well for pricing.

don't believe the dealer, they ALWAYS make money even if they sell it at invoice as the mfg still pays them, they just don't get their extras they always expect

the rubber mats are good to get as the cloth, rug type will get very dirty and worn out in a very short time. you can buy them after if you want.same as the cargo net stuff. so don't let them force you to buy it as they aren't installed permanently in the car.it's just a nice thing to get and most do.

get the car at the price you want.

most say that if you can get a car at about $200-$500 over the invoice price you've done good.

the dealer does deserve to get something. remember too that the cmax is in high demand right now (can't keep up with demand) so they can and will get a higher price than if it was a dud and they would almost pay you to take it off their hands as they lose money every day the car sits on their lot unsold.but you don't have to be their next "$ucker" either. they make plenty of money on folks who DONT do their research so don't worry about the dealer losing money. you need your own cash for those rare trips to the gas station you will be making. ;)

one more thing don't make the mistake of buying a Pruis V. you will pay more for less options and the Prius doesn't even have some of the features of the cmax. and that doesn't even start with the ride, quality finishes and fun that is in the C-max compared to the Prius.

Edited July 21, 2013 by salsaguy

[Altazi]

I test-drove both vehicles, bringing along my large cooler and my favorite carry-on bag.  The Prius V Five had wonderful storage - lots of useful cubbies - and great cargo space in the rear.  Both items fit with ease, and I had space for more.  It was almost as good as my Explorer when it came to carrying stuff.  This cargo test sadly eliminated the Energi - I had such hopes to get the plug-in version.  I couldn't fit both items in the rear without folding down the rear seats - a "no-go" for me.  I did get both items to fit in the standard C-Max hybrid, though it took careful placement.

 

Storage was the only category where the Prius V Five beat out the C-Max.  As you mention,pretty much everything else about the Prius was lacking.  It was under-powered, noisy, and just didn't seem to be at the same level of refinement that I saw in the C-Max.  In the Prius, the only way to get their version of a moonroof required me to get the "Advanced Technology Package" - a $5,650 adder.  That included such niceties as a radar-controlled adaptive cruise control, which sounded pretty neat.  The radar was also used in a collision-avoidance system.  While all of that AT stuff was cool, I really only wanted the moonroof, and the $5,650 hit was a bit much just for that.

 

The C-Max SEL had a great selection of features - things that I actively wanted.  It was comfortable - I am 6' 3" tall, 250 lbs, and I fit with ease.  The only thing I will really miss is the in-cab storage.  The Prius V had this nice area between the seats, a bin that was almost at floor level.  Even my Explorer has a nice little bin for quick storage of things you might be carrying with you.  With the C-Max, there is literally nothing besides the cup holders.  Oh, I know there is the storage compartment under the center armrest, but that is not what I am talking about.  Two people, two cups of beverage, and no place to set a cell phone, etc.

 

I am sure that once I get the C-Max, at some point I will regret not getting the Prius V for its voluminous storage space.  However, if I got the Prius V, I am equally convinced that I would regret not getting the C-Max for everything else.  I decided that I would have fewer regrets with the C-Max, which has brought me to this point.

 

One amusing point during my C-Max test drive: I had previously read about the "brake coach" function, and wanted to see how bad my braking scores would be.  My first attempt garnered a 92%.  At one point, I received a 100% grade.  So much for having to work at learning how to brake effectively in a hybrid.

 

Now if I can just resolve the pricing issues . . .

Edited July 22, 2013 by Altazi

[Ldcarson]

Interesting. I went to ford website to build my cmax energi and get xplan quote with candy blue 303a plan and it came out at 32350.00

But asked dealer for xplan price on same car and it jumped to 33980.00. While still a good deal I am curious why such a large price difference in xplan pricing. Sent a screen shot to dealer and he replied he can't take any orders due to recall? So now I can't order either.

[Testdriver]

Check out Carwoo.com too. You should be able to get a couple more quotes off that site, and it's pretty much hassle free.

 

I wouldn't be too concerned about how big off a discount Toyota is giving on the V. How big of a discount they're willing to give on a specific car is going to change from month to month. And it's a different car.

 

With that said, I suspect you should be able to get near invoice or below. It looks like you're almost there, so I wouldn't sweat it too much.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Testdriver

[hybridbear]

This thread from the Fusion Hybrid Forum may help you as it explains about invoice pricing and how dealers make their profits. Being well informed is your best tool in negotiations because then you can protect yourself from being taken advantage of by a slimy salesman.

 

http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/7072-invoice-pricing-explained/

[Altazi]

I replied once already, but it seems to have disappeared. Anyway, thank you for the link to the Fusion information.

 

Now I am wondering if I should just take a vehicle that is CLOSE to what I want, or order EXACTLY what I want. I would really like the medium light stone interior over the charcoal black - which seems to be everywhere.

[salsaguy]

great info hybrid bear. knowledge is power.

[Adair]

I replied once already, but it seems to have disappeared. Anyway, thank you for the link to the Fusion information.

 

Now I am wondering if I should just take a vehicle that is CLOSE to what I want, or order EXACTLY what I want. I would really like the medium light stone interior over the charcoal black - which seems to be everywhere.

Hi, and Welcome Altazi! I say order exactly what you want! You'll be spending a lot of time in the car, and have it for a few years anyway, build it the way you want it and get the light stone. It's worth the wait!

[salsaguy]

light stone only if you can dedicate the time to clean and condition it every 3-4 weeks with a quality leather cleaner like zymol or  lexol. if you have kids or don't want to clean it a lot go with the grey.

[Adair]

I haven't found the light stone to require any unusual maintenance.

[fotomoto]

I haven't found the light stone to require any unusual maintenance.

 

ditto and I have kids.

 

Altazi,

 

I also narrowed it down to a V and the CMax.  I'm also a previous Prius owner (standard lift back).  Basically real world FE is about the same so running costs will be too.  I found that the V has more room but is cheaper build and lower ride height while the Max is larger than a regular Prius, better built, more comfortable (both body position and seats), better view, more features, more powerful, and just a better overall driving experience.  I also got a better deal.

 

The good news is both are good cars so you really can't go wrong.

[Jus-A-CMax]

...ah but what's better :bliss:

[wamba2000]

Altazi, a suggestion- build the car on Truecar after you register.  It should spit out 2-3 offers from dealers in your area, which they are supposed to honor if you show up to buy that vehicle/combination from stock.

 

You might be surprised to get a lower truecar offer coupon which you can take to your Ford dealer that negotiated with you.  See if they will match it, or prepare to walk.

 

I helped a friend use this to buy a Honda van and lower the price below their "rock-bottom pricing", figured it saved him over a thousand $.

 

Good luck, you will enjoy the Cmax; I am 6'6" and 250 and drive very comfortably.  Now you just have to work to get the best $$

[homestead]

...ah but what's better :bliss:

 

Well, this is a C-Max forum after all.

[obob]

When I bought my car I got a good price quote from a dealer via cars.com about 120 miles away.

 

I used that quote to buy locally.  They did not match the price of cars.com but seemed to give me a good price for my trade.  (all within 24 hours)

 

(I had a test drive months before)

 

Later I realized some people got a extra 750 rebate from something that I didn't know about, maybe for getting a flyer sent to them from Ford.

 

And somebody got $50 for a test drive from a car show from Ford.

Edited July 23, 2013 by obob

[salsaguy]

definitely sign up at Ford.com for getting flyers and deals in the mail before you buy.

[Altazi]

One thing I might not have mentioned is that I am both interested in getting a good deal AND rather impatient.  I negotiated a price myself with a dealer for a C-Max Hybrid SEL with 303A, panoramic fixed-glass roof, and interior protection package for $30,712.  I am going to sign papers on the way home from work.  The car is in transit, and I should be able to pick it up in a day or two.

 

At least I dont have to stew about all of the buying stuff anymore ;)

[fotomoto]

Oh yeah, got a loaded one! :worship:   Suh-weet. :rockon:  Lots of cool bells and whistles to explore and play with.  Enjoy. :wub2:

[fotomoto]

Here's something to do while you wait those two loooooooong days. ;)

 

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/1603-on-line-owners-manual/

[salsaguy]

altazi, you and i are getting the same exact package/setup (less the moon roof for us)

 

303a SEL all the way is the only way to go. good price for that as well.!!

 

what color did you decide on?

[PapaJ]

We bought our C-Max for $800 below invoice, plus tax tag & title -- got $500 off with Ford rebate, another $500 military discount. Dealers make money even if they sell the car for the stated "invoice" price; keep shopping and get quotes from 3 dealers.

[Altazi]

altazi, you and i are getting the same exact package/setup (less the moon roof for us)

 

303a SEL all the way is the only way to go. good price for that as well.!!

 

what color did you decide on?

Oxford white.  I wanted the medium light stone interior, but that is just not available!

[Altazi]

My car has arrived at the dealer lot, and I anticipate picking it up later this evening.  :)

[zalusky]

Check your  and your wifes employee benefits. 

 

We were able to get X-Plan pricing + $1k Ford Promo last november through my wifes employment.  Which gets you the car at Invoice with no games and you can apply any Ford promotions on top of that.