Best tires for the C-Max??

[plus 3 golfer]

About 4k miles ago (8 weeks ago), I put on my 3rd set of tires.  My previous sets of tires (Original Michelin Energy Saver and Ecopia 422 Plus) both began getting "noisy" at 25 - 30 k miles.  The Michelins were so noisy at 40+ k miles that I changed them after coming home from a long road trip at around 48 k miles even though they would have likely gone 60k+ miles.  The Ecopia weren't quite as noisy as the Michelins at 40 k miles but I decided to change them at 42 k miles as I was planning several longer road trips including moving back to AZ.  The Ecopias would have easily reached 50 - 60 k miles based on treadwear.

 

So, my thought process was do I spend around $180 per tire for Michelins, $160 for Ecopias, or try something less expensive knowing that I'd like take a hit in FE but perhaps improve performance.  BTW, my estimation is that my FE took a hit of about 2-3 % with the Ecopias over the Michelins (say 1 mpg at 40 mpg).  IMO, the issue with the noisy tires is due to the "unadjustable" camber causing excessive rear inner tire wear and some feathering and cupping. 

 

After much research, I bought the General AltiMAX RT43.  IMO after nearly 4 k miles of driving, the General's are hands down better than the Michelins and Ecopias with respect to performance, noise and ride comfort (especially if you like a stiffer feeling tire).  The drawback with the General's is FE.  I'd say that the Generals are 2-3 % worse than the Ecopias and 4-6% worse than the Michelins (2 mpg at 40 mpg).  I know that those that value FE more than performance won't be able to live with the FE hit over the Michelins.  But the performance of the Generals, IMO, runs circles around the Michelins. BTW, I'm running 45-46 psi in the Generals as they are a lot firmer feeling tire than the Michelins.  I ran about 48 psi in the Michelins and Ecopias. 

 

IMO, the worst case scenario for me would be that I would use about 100 gallons more gas with the Generals than the Michelins or spend an extra say $225 in fuel.  But the Generals are only about $110 a tire.  Even after the $70 rebates for the Michelins, the Generals and Michelins should cost about the same over the life of the tire.  

 

I'll let the reader go to TireRack and read their test report on the General.  I've attached several snips showing a comparison of the three tires from TireRack.  Time will tell how the noise issue progresses with the Generals.

 

 

 

 

[kyledamron1]

Not used the Michelins. I'd take Firestones over Goodyear... and that's coming from someone who lives like 10 miles from Goodyear. They're quieter and have more traction.

[jestevens]

I've also tried the Pirelli P7' LRR tires also which I liked but I guess I drive too aggressively because none of these tires seem to be all that long-wearing for me.  I'm currently using Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max recommended by dealer - they have been okay.  I put them on last year and expect to change them either this fall or next Spring depending on how much tread is left for the winter.

[HotPotato]

OK, I owe my Pirelli P7 AS tires an apology. Part of the issue is that they were "greasy" and new, and part of the issue was that, despite being told three times to please fill the tires to the pressures stated on the door jamb panel, the tire shop underinflated them. I am now running the pressure a bit higher than I did with the Michelins, but the squirmy handling is gone. I'd still probably go OEM if I were to do it over, but I'm satisfied.

 

I do rotate the tires at every oil change, so neither the Michelins or Pirellis have ever gotten particularly noisy. The OEM Goodyears on my last new car got really noisy over time, while the Yokohama S Drives I replaced them with never did (but at some cost to handling precision -- those Yokes were heavy and greasy til the last mile).

[jestevens]

The P7's had an "issue" if you want to call it that - when they would first bite into snow the handling squirmed around a bit but after that initial push through the snow they actually had fairly good traction in light snow.  They also seemed fairly quiet.  My only two issues were it seemed like I took a hit in MPG vs. OEM tires and the wear life didn't seem to be that long, otherwise they were a good tire.  With the OEM tires it seemed like by varying driving technique I could vary MPG, with the P7's it seemed like the tires were a little bit "stickier" - the best, and worst I could get was around 40MPG with the PSI at around 42.

Edited September 22, 2017 by jestevens

[ptjones]

I bought MADMAX for the MPG's, so until someone comes out with a better MPG tire I'll stick with the OEM Michelin's. :)

 

Paul

[anbron]

I currently run toyo tires Ultra Z900. So far, traction and handling are good. Low road noise and no hydroplaning.

Edited October 3, 2017 by anbron

[ptjones]

I currently run toyo tires Ultra Z900. So far, traction and handling are good. Low road noise and no hydroplaning.

What change in gas mileage did you get?

 

Paul

[NedBCNY]

My wife has claimed my Energi; Blu... to replace our venerable FEH which went on to the big junkyard in the sky. To keep her safe this winter I just ordered a set of firestone Winterforce2 on steel rims for her. I’ll keep the OEM on the stock rims in the shed until the snow clears.

 

As I mentioned elsewhere i’m Looking at a hybrid and a n Energi for myself, will probably put replacement

Snows on the stock rims for my car.

[ptjones]

My wife has claimed my Energi; Blu... to replace our venerable FEH which went on to the big junkyard in the sky. To keep her safe this winter I just ordered a set of firestone Winterforce2 on steel rims for her. I’ll keep the OEM on the stock rims in the shed until the snow clears.

 

As I mentioned elsewhere i’m Looking at a hybrid and a n Energi for myself, will probably put replacement

Snows on the stock rims for my car.

Seems like a lot of work going back an forth. :sad:

 

Paul

[obob]

My wife has claimed my Energi; Blu... to replace our venerable FEH which went on to the big junkyard in the sky. To keep her safe this winter I just ordered a set of firestone Winterforce2 on steel rims for her. I’ll keep the OEM on the stock rims in the shed until the snow clears.

 

As I mentioned elsewhere i’m Looking at a hybrid and a n Energi for myself, will probably put replacement

Snows on the stock rims for my car.

 

Did you get 2 or 4 tires and did you have pressure sensors installed ?  Thanks.

Edited October 23, 2017 by obob

[NedBCNY]

Paul, yeah... that’s what snow county does for you. I didn’t get a full winter experience with Blu this spring, however my experience with my Prii tell me snows will add a bit of insurance. A Prius without snow tires in Syracuse makes a great ornament in some ditch or your garage... it isn’t going anywhere happily otherwise.

 

 

Obob, went full boogie... 4 tires on rims plus tpms sensors. I hate the way Blu nags with one low tire ( repaired) let alone all four with no signal. $800 shipped to local shop. I know it will mean a mpg reduction, just a cost of living with 4 seasons. Also putting two on just leaves one end with rotten adhesion so you work harder to compensate, better to have the same traction on all four corners. I fully expect to get four winters Out of these tires.

Edited October 24, 2017 by NedBCNY

[fbov]

Paul, you need to come up here some February! 

 

Ned, we also have a full set of snows for the C-Max, so I was interested in a new tire design from Michelin, the CrossClimate+, for my wife's Sonata Hybrid. They are supposed to have the traction and braking of a dedicated snow tire, to the point where they bear the "3-peak snowflake" symbol. But they also claim it handles like a high-end summer tire, and it has a 600 A A UTQG. 

 

Unfortunately, the "+" is a new model, supposedly with a different tread compound, so the only test data available is from Europe, on the original CrossClimate. Several of the tests liked the balance of performance, as good as summer tires in dry and wet, but no where close to them in snow. 

 

My wife teaches, so she has to get to school whenever it's open. Last winter, she took the snow-shod C-Max on snowy days. This year, I wanted her to be less dependent on taking my car, and be better able to handle the highly variable snowfall rates characteristic of lake effect snow should she hit a squall. 

 

At the same time, I didn't want to swap snow tires on a second car... and I can't say anything about them yet as they're still in her trunk.

 

Frank

[djc]

I put Michelin X-ice Xi3 winter tires on my C-max last Friday, using the factory rims.  OEM tires from 2013 were down to 3/32 to 4/32 tread left.

I bought size 215/60R17.  These are 1.2" larger diameter than the OEMs.  That raises the car .6".  I don't believe it could take larger diam tires, but please post if you have run this size or larger on your C-max.

 

For some reason at the time I was looking the 215/60R17 size was cheaper than any other 17 inch X-ice: $113.50 at Amazon or Walmart.  The Ford dealer was quoting me $180 for the same tire in OEM size.  I ordered the tires from Amazon, a first for me.  They appeared neatly stacked on my front porch a week later.  Cost was reduced by a $15 "first time Amazon tire order" offer that appeared on the Amazon page for the tires, and 5% back for using an Amazon credit cost, so net was about $104 a tire shipped (plus tax).

Local mounting and balancing cost $62.50.  The 4 tires (two on rear seat, two in way back) pretty much filled up the car on the way to local shop.

 

So far they are pleasantly quieter than the well-worm OEM tires.  Ride is softer.  OK in first snow here end of last week.  Curious what the mpg hit will be. I haven't had winter tires on the C-max before so I am looking forward to improved and safer winter driving this year. 

Edited October 31, 2017 by djc

[fbov]

I can say that 215/60-16's work well, but they're the same OD as OEM. You should see a small mileage drop to the diameter change but not the tire itself. My mileage data has repeatedly shown no change at winter tire changeover. If you had bad interference, you'd know it; snurds are always going to rub. 

 

A quick price online comparison today shows Walmart and Amazon want $131 today, Tire Rack at $117. I paid a lot more than that at Tire Rack because tires were a lot more expensive in 2013 than now (driven by oil prices) and I bought steel wheels, too. It pays to shop around if price matters a lot to you. Those Amazon discounts were a great find!

 

New snows will ride very softly, more so than new OEMs due to the small, heavily-siped tread blocks. Conversely, the handling will be mushy for the same reason, even as it gives you a lot of grip, and a certain imperviousness to hydroplaning.

 

And I'm assuming you're aware that snow tires have no tread-wear rating, as snow tires will not last a summer if you leave them on. Plan on a new set in Spring, or you'll need new tires in Fall. That $62.50 is a semi-annual expense. It's the economics of snow tires; there's a price to knowing that windblown snow on a bend in the road won't be exciting.

 

If you've never had good snows, you're in for a treat!!

 

Frank

Edited October 31, 2017 by fbov

[ptjones]

I put Michelin X-ice Xi3 winter tires on my C-max last Friday, using the factory rims.  OEM tires from 2013 were down to 3/32 to 4/32 tread left.

I bought size 215/60R17.  These are 1.2" larger diameter than the OEMs.  That raises the car .6".  I don't believe it could take larger diam tires, but please post if you have run this size or larger on your C-max.

 

For some reason at the time I was looking the 215/60R17 size was cheaper than any other 17 inch X-ice: $113.50 at Amazon or Walmart.  The Ford dealer was quoting me $180 for the same tire in OEM size.  I ordered the tires from Amazon, a first for me.  They appeared neatly stacked on my front porch a week later.  Cost was reduced by a $15 "first time Amazon tire order" offer that appeared on the Amazon page for the tires, and 5% back for using an Amazon credit cost, so net was about $104 a tire shipped (plus tax).

Local mounting and balancing cost $62.50.  The 4 tires (two on rear seat, two in way back) pretty much filled up the car on the way to local shop.

 

So far they are pleasantly quieter than the well-worm OEM tires.  Ride is softer.  OK in first snow here end of last week.  Curious what the mpg hit will be. I haven't had winter tires on the C-max before so I am looking forward to improved and safer winter driving this year. 

It sure looked like those tires were going to rub to me when turning. Let us know how they work out. :)

 

Paul

[djc]

 

And I'm assuming you're aware that snow tires have no tread-wear rating, as snow tires will not last a summer if you leave them on. Plan on a new set in Spring, or you'll need new tires in Fall. That $62.50 is a semi-annual expense. It's the economics of snow tires; there's a price to knowing that windblown snow on a bend in the road won't be exciting.

 

If you've never had good snows, you're in for a treat!!

 

Frank

 

The Michelin X-ice xi3 has a 40k mile tread wear manufacturer warranty.  As you say, this is not the usually case with snow tires.  Warranty proviso: removed by April 30 and on again after Sept 1.  No commercial use.  I am not sure the warranty will be of value - would need to keep car several more years, plus documentation plus hassle.   But the fact that there is a warranty at all suggests these might have longer tread life than some.  Owner reviews seemed to be ok on tread life.  (But several complaints about hydroplaning in wet conditions.)

The tires start with 10.5/32" tread per Michelin.  I'll measure that myself, and again before swapping them next Spring, and so get an idea of tire life I am likely to get out of the set (if I find my calipers, which apparently, in an inspired moment, I put in a very good place).

[fbov]

 

Here's what I've been seeing for tread life... projection for the snows is they'll be down to 3mm by 35K miles, another couple years.

 

My OEM's won't see another Summer; an average of 3mm means they're real close to 2mm in a lot of places. I need to do a rolling resistance comparison with the CrossClimates on the wife's car. 

 

Have fun

Frank

[Zathrus]

... 

 

After much research, I bought the General AltiMAX RT43.  IMO after nearly 4 k miles of driving, the General's are hands down better than the Michelins and Ecopias with respect to performance, noise and ride comfort (especially if you like a stiffer feeling tire).  The drawback with the General's is FE.  I'd say that the Generals are 2-3 % worse than the Ecopias and 4-6% worse than the Michelins (2 mpg at 40 mpg).  I know that those that value FE more than performance won't be able to live with the FE hit over the Michelins.  But the performance of the Generals, IMO, runs circles around the Michelins. BTW, I'm running 45-46 psi in the Generals as they are a lot firmer feeling tire than the Michelins.  I ran about 48 psi in the Michelins and Ecopias. 

 

...

 

I'll let the reader go to TireRack and read their test report on the General.  I've attached several snips showing a comparison of the three tires from TireRack.  Time will tell how the noise issue progresses with the Generals.

Compare Tires 1.JPGCompare Tires 2.JPGCompare Tires 3.JPG

 

P3G, how are the General Altimax RT43 tires wearing?  Are you still happy with them? 

 

My OEM tires on my 2013 CMax SE have 48K miles on them and dealer says the road noise I am hearing is due to uneven wear on all of my OEM tires (even after they just replaced my transmission under warranty for grinding/thumping noise, along with new wheel bearings).

 

Car rides much quieter with new transmission and wheel bearings, but there is still a thumping/rotational road noise in front. I would like to eliminate the tires as a factor in the rotational noises I am still hearing (before I go back to dealer). I'm thinking of replacing OEM's with the General Altimax RT43, and just wanted to get an update from you (and anyone else) who has the Altimax TR43 tires. Thanks.

[plus 3 golfer]

P3G, how are the General Altimax RT43 tires wearing?  Are you still happy with them? 

 

My OEM tires on my 2013 CMax SE have 48K miles on them and dealer says the road noise I am hearing is due to uneven wear on all of my OEM tires (even after they just replaced my transmission under warranty for grinding/thumping noise, along with new wheel bearings).

 

Car rides much quieter with new transmission and wheel bearings, but there is still a thumping/rotational road noise in front. I would like to eliminate the tires as a factor in the rotational noises I am still hearing (before I go back to dealer). I'm thinking of replacing OEM's with the General Altimax RT43, and just wanted to get an update from you (and anyone else) who has the Altimax TR43 tires. Thanks.

Tire noise was the reason I bought new tires twice now (Bridgestone Ecopias at 48k miles and Generals at 88k miles). In both cases I likely could have got another 10k more on the replaced sets but for the unbearable tire noise especially on the Michelins OEMs.

 

With nearly 8k on the Generals, there is no abnormal wear.  I just measured tread depth in every groove on the four tires and all grooves are at 9/32" - 17/64".  Original spec treadwear depth is 10/32.  So, my guess is I'll get around 55-60k miles on the generals assuming no noise issues before I change them.

 

I've set the tire pressure at 48 psi. Generals ride and handle a lot better than my other two sets. The only negative is fuel economy which is down from the Michelin energy savers and Ecopias. I would expect you will loose 5-7% in FE with the Generals over the OEM tires.  I would buy the Generals again.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Plus 3 Golfer

[ptjones]

Just a reminder that when you rotate your tires(5-10k mi) do it in a X pattern, Right front to left rear, left front to right rear so direction of rotation is reversed every time you rotate the times.

This will minimize the noise issue. :)

 

Paul

[SnowStorm]

Actually, the manual (2013 anyway) says to rotate:

• front straight to back
• back to front crossing

This will move each tire to every location as well as change direction of rotation.  Be sure to do it the same way each time.  My second set is just shy of 70k miles with, I hope, about another 10k to go.

[plus 3 golfer]

IMO the tire noise is caused by the high negative rear camber causing inside tire wear and feathering.  When driving in a straight line, negative camber will increase tire wear on the inside edge of the tire.  High negative camber benefits cornering when driving agressively.  There is no rear camber adjustment on the C-Max.  I would say about 80% of our driving is high speed at 70+ mph.   So, I believe the inside rear edges are scuffing / feathering perhaps more than "normal" driving driving at lower speeds. 

 

Tire rotation doesn't prevent this but may mitigate the onset of the noise and miles until the noise is unbearable.  One would have to dismount the tire and reverse it on the rims to perhaps wear the edges more evenly and thus keep the noise at an acceptable level.  When one adds cost to the equation, it is not cost effective to dismount 4 tires, reverse mount and balance them every 5-10k miles to maybe squeeze out another 10k miles.

[ptjones]

IMO the tire noise is caused by the high negative rear camber causing inside tire wear and feathering.  When driving in a straight line, negative camber will increase tire wear on the inside edge of the tire.  High negative camber benefits cornering when driving agressively.  There is no rear camber adjustment on the C-Max.  I would say about 80% of our driving is high speed at 70+ mph.   So, I believe the inside rear edges are scuffing / feathering perhaps more than "normal" driving driving at lower speeds. 

 

Tire rotation doesn't prevent this but may mitigate the onset of the noise and miles until the noise is unbearable.  One would have to dismount the tire and reverse it on the rims to perhaps wear the edges more evenly and thus keep the noise at an acceptable level.  When one adds cost to the equation, it is not cost effective to dismount 4 tires, reverse mount and balance them every 5-10k miles to maybe squeeze out another 10k miles.

After getting 64k and 60k mi. on my first and second sets of tires and only 1/32" difference between inside and outside of Michelin Energy Savers and I could have gotten

another 5+k mi. but was going on Winter trips and wanted the extra tread so I replaced them. The feathering I'm seeing is making the noise and I think can be controlled by reversing the rotation every 5-10k mi. by using the crisscrossing the tires. :) 

 

Paul

[plus 3 golfer]

Perhaps the fact that you run 50+ psi lessens the inside tread wear and feathering.  In addition, my "unbearable" noise is at speeds of 72+ mph.  If I would drive at less than mostly 65 mph and with no 2000 mile cross country trips on the horizon, I could likely live with the noise for many more miles.   

 

Also, I rotated my Michelins myself and did the recommended rotation sequence about every 7500 miles which effectively means the reverse rotation happens every 15 k miles.  So, perhaps crisscrossing every tire rotation would help as that would provide 2X the opportunity to offset the feathering.