Anyone noticed a problem starting in Reverse?

[CNCGeek]

I have never experienced the loss of power steering with the problem I had seen backing up. Do you know if the engine was running, and did it seem to be struggling, or did all this happen in EV?

I hope your dealer can find the problem.

[erwhitham]

I have never experienced the loss of power steering with the problem I had seen backing up. Do you know if the engine was running, and did it seem to be struggling, or did all this happen in EV?

I hope your dealer can find the problem.

I also never noticed a steering problem. Am starting to think it just may be a need to wait until the car is ready to reverse. I'll definitely bring this up with service dept.

[CNCGeek]

csavage7, have you seen this thread?

http://fordcmaxhybri...d-this-morning/

 

The latest on it was a probably bad fuse box under the hood. I think they were losing power steering as well, and the dealer noted some melted hardware according to the thread. It may be worth asking the dealer to verify it is not the same or similar issue.

Edited November 26, 2012 by CNCGeek

[shaners]

I wonder if the problem could be caused by the "hill holder" feature (especially if you shut the car off with the brake depressed). I have this feature turned off on my car and I am not saying that I may not sometime experiance this problem but so far everytime we have tried to back up after a start, the car has done what it is told to do.

[csavage7]

Thanks CNCGeek, I hadn't seen that.

 

I picked up the C-Max from the dealer yesterday. They had put more than 20 miles on it and were unable to reproduce the problem. They said there was nothing in the Ford technical alerts about such a problem having been reported/diagnosed.

 

I had no problem driving it home, and my wife yesterday had no problems running a series of errands.

 

But today she said it happened again backing out of the driveway and she emailed me a cell phone picture of the dash. It had what turned out to be the OBD (Onboard diagnostics) picture, which "indicators reveals a problem to the engine or to the gas emissions and required the car to be serviced."

 

But she is not sure the green icon indicating the motor was on before she started backing out. So before taking it in again I am hoping we can learn and watch more. Is it possible she is not depressing the brake pedal hard enough when pushing the ignition button, so the computer is coming on and it allows her to shift into reverse and move backwards by gravity when she releases the brake and emergency brake, but the engine was never on? Would that trigger an OBD icon when she tried to accelerate backward though?

[darrelld]

Thanks CNCGeek, I hadn't seen that.

 

I picked up the C-Max from the dealer yesterday. They had put more than 20 miles on it and were unable to reproduce the problem. They said there was nothing in the Ford technical alerts about such a problem having been reported/diagnosed.

 

I had no problem driving it home, and my wife yesterday had no problems running a series of errands.

 

But today she said it happened again backing out of the driveway and she emailed me a cell phone picture of the dash. It had what turned out to be the OBD (Onboard diagnostics) picture, which "indicators reveals a problem to the engine or to the gas emissions and required the car to be serviced."

 

But she is not sure the green icon indicating the motor was on before she started backing out. So before taking it in again I am hoping we can learn and watch more. Is it possible she is not depressing the brake pedal hard enough when pushing the ignition button, so the computer is coming on and it allows her to shift into reverse and move backwards by gravity when she releases the brake and emergency brake, but the engine was never on? Would that trigger an OBD icon when she tried to accelerate backward though?

 

Can you post the photo?

[csavage7]

Here you go.

 

[mtberman]

How is this for an answer: There's no reverse gear in your C Max. It's an electric car in reverse. Any car that uses the basic design that was initially created by Aisin (all Ford and Toyota hybrids) share this characteristic.

 

Reverse may feel strange vs a regular car, esp if the battery is low. The throttle will feel very non linear and "springy". Golf cart-like. Like one of those old bumper cars at the fair. It can be a little disconcerting because, in some cases, you may need to almost floor it before the car will move. The engine will come on and rev up to generate enough juice to power the electric motor and move the car, but there will be no relationship to the pedal position, the engine noise, and your speed. The whole thing will feel pretty disconnected under these circumstances.

 

I almost got stuck in my 2004 Prius doing this. I'd driven down a really steep loading ramp, nose first, at a friend's apartment building. I'd been driving in the parking garage on electric only, and the battery was pretty low. After we unloaded the car, it did not want to reverse back up the ramp. I had to floor it, at which point the engine raced and the car (slowly) backed up. I was a little panicked until someone explained that this was normal for the car.

 

To get a feel for this, find a safe place that is a steep driveway or ramp in a clear and safe area. Or a steep piece of private road or driveway with no traffic. Drive your car up it and note how it feels. The engine and battery will work together to power you up. Now turn around and go down, and then stop so that you're facing downhill. Now and try to reverse up the incline. The difference in "feel" should be pretty evident.

[FoutsNC]

But today she said it happened again backing out of the driveway and she emailed me a cell phone picture of the dash. It had what turned out to be the OBD (Onboard diagnostics) picture, which "indicators reveals a problem to the engine or to the gas emissions and required the car to be serviced."

 

But she is not sure the green icon indicating the motor was on before she started backing out. So before taking it in again I am hoping we can learn and watch more. Is it possible she is not depressing the brake pedal hard enough when pushing the ignition button, so the computer is coming on and it allows her to shift into reverse and move backwards by gravity when she releases the brake and emergency brake, but the engine was never on? Would that trigger an OBD icon when she tried to accelerate backward though?

 

csavage7,

 

I have only had my C-Max for a week now, but I have been following this thread since before I picked it up. The first time this happened to me, I thought that it was an issue with the car as well. Before I did anything, I looked at the dash and it looked exactly like your photo above (No Green Go light and the Check Engine Light). I put the car back into Park, depressed the brake pedal, and then everything worked as it should. I have since done this a couple of times now and each time it has been due to my lack of checking the dash and/or depressing the brake. The Check Engine (OBD) light will come on when you don't depress the brake and when you are in "Accessory" mode like it would with any other car. It's just indicating that the motor has not been started or engaged as in the case of the Hybrid. I could be wrong about some of the cases here, but I think mine so far has been completely my fault. I pay more attention to the "Ready to Drive" pop up and try not to touch the shifter until I see that banner. I have yet to see the banner and have this happen. I will surely provide an update if it does happen, but I think the problem was between the seat and the steering wheel in my case ;)

[Laurel]

You guys are wonderful with all this information. I will have lots filling my head when my car gets here.

[csavage7]

And now this: http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/index.php?/topic/597-driver-door-stuck/

[CNCGeek]

I wonder if the problem could be caused by the "hill holder" feature (especially if you shut the car off with the brake depressed). I have this feature turned off on my car and I am not saying that I may not sometime experiance this problem but so far everytime we have tried to back up after a start, the car has done what it is told to do.

I tend to agree that the hill climb assist is likely contributing to some of these reports. I have observed the car to seem to pop into motion while backing out, and I suspect that the hill assist is the cause. I have yet to park on a hill or steep incline however - though I could be turning it off with the brake depressed as you mentioned. It is probably the most annoying thing that happens regularly since the car is so damn quiet backing out, and the rear view is not the best. I will check the manual on how to disable this feature since I think I can safely live without it.

 

I'd still like to know more about the way the hill climb assist system senses the "hill", and if there are any sensors which actually sense the orientation, or if it is using some feedback from the motor and speed sensor to determine if it is on a hill. Even when I have parked on a slight incline, it has always been with the front end up, so going in reverse should not require an assist, but I have still had it kick in.

 

I don't think that the hill climb assist was the entire problem when it just would not go in reverse though (until the ignition was cycled). I would not rule out the possibility that I was still in the accessory position (did not turn the key far enough) which would explain possibly one or two occurrences, but I am not sure about the others.

 

I recall that the engine was running, and the battery was low when I first had the problem, and mtberman's post describing the engine in the Prius having to rev to get going up a ramp in reverse makes me think something similar could have occurred - even though the car should have rolled easily on the level surface in my garage - but if the vehicle computer thought it was on a hill, maybe the software was holding it back until it had sufficient juice to back up the perceived hill, which caused the engine to rev (I also recall that stepping on the gas seemed to cause it to struggle, which I cannot explain). The subsequent cycling of the ignition may have kicked it back to reality to see that the "hill" was really not there. FWIW I have not observed the problem recently however.

Edited December 1, 2012 by CNCGeek

[CNCGeek]

And now this: http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/index.php?/topic/597-driver-door-stuck/

Man, I feel for you. Yours may be the one that rolled off the line at 4:59pm on a Friday.

[Bob999]

The following information about Hill Start Assist is taken from the Owners Manual:

 

 

This feature will not operate if the parking brake is activated.

Hill start assist keeps your vehicle stationary long enough to move your

foot from the brake pedal to the accelerator pedal when your vehicle is

on a slope.

The brakes are released automatically once the engine has developed

sufficient drive to prevent the vehicle from rolling down the slope. This

is an advantage when pulling away on a slope, (for example from a car

park ramp, traffic lights or when reversing uphill into a parking space).

Using Hill Start Assist

1. Press the brake pedal to bring the vehicle to a complete standstill.

Keep the brake pedal pressed.

2. If the sensors detect that the vehicle is on a slope, the hill start assist

feature will be activated automatically.

3. When you remove your foot from the brake pedal, the vehicle will

remain on the slope without rolling away for approximately two or three

seconds. This hold time will automatically be extended if you are in the

process of driving off.

4. Drive off in the normal manner. The brakes will be released

automatically.

[AgentCMAX]

I have noticed something weird twice when starting in reverse out of my garage. I cannot recall the exact circumstances of the first time it happened (except that the battery charge was low and the engine turned on at startup). The problem re-occurred this evening, when I started the car the engine started up becuase the battery was low (about 25-30% charge). When I put it in gear for reverse and let off the brake nothing happened (which I have found is typical - sometimes it has to get a tap on the gas before it starts moving), well I tapped the gas and nothing. Checked the brake, it was not set and this is a level driveway/garage. Tapped down some more and the engine clearly reved, but no movement, I also noticed the engine seemed to struggle a bit so I let off the gas. I shifted back to Park and then back to Reverse and gave it some gas, this time it did start to move. The ambient temps were in the upper 80's, low humidity (no rain today and it did not feel humid, I think it was less than 50%), and the car had been setting for a day, but otherwise nothing out of the ordinary.

 

Has anyone else noted any weirdness like this?

Had this happened to me twice so far. I chalked the first occurrence as user error as I wasn't sure what happened. But second time was exactly as you described...although battery level was at 50% or so. First time it happened after car was off over night. The second time car was off for about one hour. Both times the car was on flat level garage and road.

 

After posting this, I read all the messages in this forum topic and now I am wondering if I turned off the car while depressing the brake. I need to test this out further.

Edited December 4, 2012 by AgentCMAX

[AgentCMAX]

This happened to me again yesterday after work. I started the car and waited for the go message to appear and disappear, then put the car in reverse and nothing happened. I tapped the gas pedal and still no movement. I then waited while still in reverse gear and about two seconds later the car abruptly reversed. It seemed like it was waiting for something to complete like a diagnostic some check or some reserve power to get charged up or so. I sent an email to my sales person and he wants to discuss it with me. I hope to get some time this weekend to call him.

Edited December 7, 2012 by AgentCMAX

[CNCGeek]

This happened to me again yesterday after work. I started the car and waited for the go message to appear and disappear, then put the car in reverse and nothing happened. I tapped the gas pedal and still no movement. I then waited while still in reverse gear and about two seconds later the car abruptly reversed. It seemed like it was waiting for something to complete like a diagnostic some check or some reserve power to get charged up or so. I sent an email to my sales person and he wants to discuss it with me. I hope to get some time this weekend to call him.

 

I have not recently observed the problem I initially had with it not moving at all, at least not in the past week or two.  But I have had the hesitation followed by a surge going in reverse - which can be dangerous in a busy parking lot.  I've observed this happen on a mostly level surface, and I suspect it may be due to the hill climb assist incorrectly thinking the vehicle is parked on a hill.  When I had the no-go problem, I think it may have been that the battery was too low, and the car decided it needed more charge before it would attempt to start moving (possibly also thinking incorrectly that it was on an incline) so it just ignored the accelerator input until it was ready, or I powercycled it - reverse is all electric, even though the engine may run to charge the battery IIRC.

Edited December 7, 2012 by CNCGeek

[Laurel]

This problem happened to me this morning backing out of my garage in EV mode. There was an engine light on the dash and I had no power steering. I power cycled the car and then the problem disappeared.

 

Is anyone from Ford reading this forum? It's ridiculous that I have to "reboot" my car to fix it. This type of problem should have been found in validation testing. Owners shouldn't be beta testing your vehicles.

I think the answer to this is that your car is in accessory mode only and not "ready to drive" mode.  Hubby has done this once and I have done it once.  Both times one of us was listening to the radio in the car on accessory mode, and then thinking we were in "ready to drive" mode because all the dash gauges,lights and music were on we put the car in reverse and it rolled back with no power steering.  It then dawned on us that we were in accessory mode only.  We stopped immediately, turned the car off, and then restarted it and drove off.  I am thinking that is what others with this problem are doing.

 

Edit:  That is my guess as the accessory mode without the engine running is almost impossible to tell apart from the "ready to drive" mode as there is no engine sound with either.  I think it would be very easy to assume that we are having a power failure of some sort.  When I did it, I felt kind of panicky thinking that my new car was having the same problem as others on this thread when it was me not looking for the "ready to drive".

Edited December 11, 2012 by Laurel

[darrelld]

I think the answer to this is that your car is in accessory mode only and not "ready to drive" mode.  Hubby has done this once and I have done it once.  Both times one of us was listening to the radio in the car on accessory mode, and then thinking we were in "ready to drive" mode because all the dash gauges,lights and music were on we put the car in reverse and it rolled back with no power steering.  It then dawned on us that we were in accessory mode only.  We stopped immediately, turned the car off, and then restarted it and drove off.  I am thinking that is what others with this problem are doing.

 

Edit:  That is my guess as the accessory mode without the engine running is almost impossible to tell apart from the "ready to drive" mode as there is no engine sound with either.  I think it would be very easy to assume that we are having a power failure of some sort.  When I did it, I felt kind of panicky thinking that my new car was having the same problem as others on this thread when it was me not looking for the "ready to drive".

This has happened to me at least 3 times now and I did not cycle the power or change the shift position. I simply wait for a second or two and the vehicle will engage on its own.

[AgentCMAX]

This has happened to me at least 3 times now and I did not cycle the power or change the shift position. I simply wait for a second or two and the vehicle will engage on its own.

 

My experience mirrors darreld's. What I have been doing lately is to simply wait longer during start up before shifting the gear into reverse and have not experience the stall since.

[erwhitham]

I've also decided to forego panic in favor of patience.

[Laurel]

I've also decided to forego panic in favor of patience.

I love that philosophy.  I am the gal that starts hitting enter on my computer before it connects up to wi fi.

[CNCGeek]

I've also decided to forego panic in favor of patience.

I don't think anyone is panicking here.  Indeed if it were considered to be panic, I would hate to know what walking out ones door in the morning would be. :)

Edited December 13, 2012 by CNCGeek

[ScooterS]

Welllll.... It happened to me this morning!

 

I had run the car for about 20 minutes and parked in front of a store with a slight downhill angle (nose down). I started the car normally and put it in reverse. I let off of the brake and it rolled forward. I applied the brake, shifted in and out of park and it did it again. I then moved it to Drive and back to Reverse and it backed up.

 

Most unfortunately, the car rolled forward and the underside of the nose scraped on the curb. As I finally got it into reverse, It pulled part of the trim off of the bottom of the front bumper.

 

I'm off to the dealer tomorrow to report the problem and insist that they replace the trim.

 

This is very, very not good!

[Laurel]

Well that stinks Scooter.  Good luck with the dealer.