2013 vs 2014 C-Max Engine Oil Specs

[plus 3 golfer]

Ford has a new oil spec out for the 2014 C-Max as shown below.  The spec for the 2013 C-Max is WSS-M2C945-A  which is met by Motorcraft XO-5W20-QSP/QFS.  The question: does the new spec supersede the old spec for the 2013s?  

 

On the surface it appears that the change is to the viscosity of the oil which likely helps in FE especially during warm-up.  I can not find any other manufacturers' engine oils that meet the 2014 Ford spec. The new Ford spec. may be too new for manufacturers to list / develop an oil that meets the new spec.  Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0W20 meets or exceeds the requirements of  WSS-M2C945-A. 

 

Edited February 10, 2014 by Plus 3 Golfer

[fotomoto]

We discussed this on the Energi forum last month and the Ford rep. advised to stick with what's stated in your respective OM.  But I'll add, OM do get revised.   ;)

[plus 3 golfer]

And the Ford rep will be the last to know (tell).:) I wouldn't expect them to say anything different. Maybe they can post PDF files of both specs?

 

It wouldn't surprise me if the Mobil1 0W20 AFE meets both specs.

[drdiesel1]

I've been using 0W20 since my 500 ICE miles oil change. Using Royal Purple 0W20.

My ICE make much less rattling noise than it did on the factory oil. I'm sure the break-in

has a factor on noise levels too.

Edited February 11, 2014 by drdiesel1

[Smiling Jack]

I've been using 0W20 since my 500 ICE miles oil change. Using Royal Purple 0W20.

My ICE make much less rattling noise than it did on the factory oil. I'm sure the break-in

has a factor on noise levels too.

 

"500 miles" ?

[hybridbear]

The 2nd printing of the 2014 FFH OM calls for 0W-20 oil. 1st printing 2014 FFH OM and all 5 revisions of the 2013 FFH OM have called for 5W-20 oil. The document found here calls for 0W-20 in all 2.0L Atkinson cycle Ford engines, 2013 and 2014, hybrid and Energi. There has been a lot of discussion the past few days about this on the FFH Forum and we're waiting for Ashley to get us an official answer about if the chart linked above supersedes what the OM says. All 2014 FFHs have come with an oil filler cap under the hood which says 5W-20 oil, even the ones that came from the factory with an OM stating 0W-20 say 5W-20 on the oil cap under the hood. 

[plus 3 golfer]

hybridbear, you've found the official Ford answer to the 0W20 Motorcraft engine oil question but I would like to see the actual specs for Ford's 0W20 and 5W20. The Motorcraft document is as official as it gets.  Mobil1 site says basically they don't have the specs for the 2013 / 2014 C-Max (probably the same for all 2L Atkinson Engines as I didn't check) so Mobil can't recommend an engine oil.  I thought that was odd as the site at one time showed that their 0W20 was recommended for the 2013 C-Max.  

 

As I said before Ford's "front line of defense" is always the last to find out or can't tell until something has officially been released. :)   It wouldn't surprise me if it takes a while for Ford to make the revision to the 2013 Owner's Manual. 

 

I'm about ready for my 20k OC and will use Mobil 1 0W20 as I did for my 10k OC.

[fotomoto]

Mobil1 site says basically they don't have the specs for the 2013 / 2014 C-Max (probably the same for all 2L Atkinson Engines as I didn't check) so Mobil can't recommend an engine oil.  I thought that was odd as the site at one time showed that their 0W20 was recommended for the 2013 C-Max.  

 

Nothing has changed AFAICT:

 

Mobil 1 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy synthetic oil meets or exceeds the requirements of:

ACEA A1/B1

API SN, SM, SL, SJ

ILSAC GF-5

Ford WSS-M2C945-A

 

 

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_0W-20.aspx#

[plus 3 golfer]

Nothing has changed AFAICT:

 

Mobil 1 0W-20 Advanced Fuel Economy synthetic oil meets or exceeds the requirements of:

ACEA A1/B1

API SN, SM, SL, SJ

ILSAC GF-5

Ford WSS-M2C945-A

 

 

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_0W-20.aspx#

 

Not the spec. That doesn't link to the 2013 C-Max anymore.   If you let Mobil decide what oil is best for your car by entering the 2013 C-Max you get the quote below.  Months ago (don't recall how long ago), the site came back with the 0W20 AFE.  Now it's as if Mobil doesn't have the spec for the MY2013 C-Max.

 

 

The data available to us for the vehicle you selected is insufficient for us to make a product/viscosity match. For new model years, there may be a delay in receiving data for all makes/models. Please try again later.

 

Edited February 11, 2014 by Plus 3 Golfer

[drdiesel1]

"500 miles" ?

Yep!  When my ICE had 500 miles on it, I changed the oil. I never run the break-in oil past 500 miles on any of my vehicles.

The Energi has a EV use readout, so I used it to determine the 500 mile point on my ICE.  It was about 1500 or was it 1900

miles on the odometer.

[Alex Sams]

I'd bet that other makers 0W20s- like Amsoil, Royal Purple, or Mobil do meet Ford's spec. I have a warning for people who want to use Amsoil. It's good stuff, but all cars I've ever used it in used some oil (1/2 qt) by 10k miles. Never fill and forget when it comes to oil. You should check it weekly if not daily. If you overheat, or run the engine temp high regularly, that breaks oil down, and it should be taken into account when considering oil change interval. 

 

PCV and oil breather factory designs mean that engines will always use some oil- it might be a miniscule amount, but it will still get "used".

[plus 3 golfer]

I wouldn't characterize that 1/2 quart low every 10k miles is "using" oil.  Engine oil contains volatiles which will evaporate / burn off - some oil more than others and engine operating temperatures can affect this.  Most vehicle manufacturers don't consider ones engine to be "using" oil until about one quart per thousand miles for warranty claims.  IIRC, Honda recently settled a class action lawsuit on excessive oil consumption where people were using about a quart or more per thousand miles.

 

Yes, check your oil level frequently.    Most manufacturers recommend checking ones oil level every fillup. 

[FordService]

Hi everyone,

 

I have confirmation that you should use 5W-20 for the 2013. For 2014, 0W-20 is recommended, but you can still use 5W-20 if you'd like.

 

Ashley

[fotomoto]

Part numbers on both the 2013 and 2014 CMax'es are the same according to fordparts.com for the following items:  short block, long block, engine complete assembly, piston, and piston rings.  

 

http://www.fordparts.com/Default.aspx?gnav=nav:home

[Smiling Jack]

Part numbers on both the 2013 and 2014 CMax'es are the same according to fordparts.com for the following items:  short block, long block, engine complete assembly, piston, and piston rings.  

 

http://www.fordparts.com/Default.aspx?gnav=nav:home

 

Fotomoto:  Thank you for the great job of clear thinking, investigation and reporting.  I think that this puts to rest the speculation that some unknown "design change" for 2014 may have specifically accommodated the 0W20, and that you have conclusively shown us that we may safely use the 0W20 in our 2013 engines..

 

Ashley:  This issue is not going to go away.   At this point, quoting the manual to us is not going to suffice.  You would do us all a great service if you could go all the way back to HQ engineering and get them to give us the green light for 0W20 in our 2013's based on the fact that the 2013 and 2014 engines are identical, as discovered by Fotomoto.  Thanks in advance for the effort.

[BIG ROCCO]

Yep!  When my ICE had 500 miles on it, I changed the oil. I never run the break-in oil past 500 miles on any of my vehicles.

The Energi has a EV use readout, so I used it to determine the 500 mile point on my ICE.  It was about 1500 or was it 1900

miles on the odometer.

 

EV miles of 2+ times the ICE miles is excellent - we average ~1X...in other words, EV miles are approximately 1/2 the total miles (so ICE miles ~ EV miles)

[FordService]

Fotomoto:  Thank you for the great job of clear thinking, investigation and reporting.  I think that this puts to rest the speculation that some unknown "design change" for 2014 may have specifically accommodated the 0W20, and that you have conclusively shown us that we may safely use the 0W20 in our 2013 engines..

 

Ashley:  This issue is not going to go away.   At this point, quoting the manual to us is not going to suffice.  You would do us all a great service if you could go all the way back to HQ engineering and get them to give us the green light for 0W20 in our 2013's based on the fact that the 2013 and 2014 engines are identical, as discovered by Fotomoto.  Thanks in advance for the effort.

 

Smiling Jack,

 

The recommendation I shared comes from engineering. You are welcome to choose another oil outside of the Ford recommendation, but if there is any damage or wear as a result, it may not be covered under warranty.

 

Ashley

[Smiling Jack]

Smiling Jack,

 

The recommendation I shared comes from engineering. You are welcome to choose another oil outside of the Ford recommendation, but if there is any damage or wear as a result, it may not be covered under warranty.

 

Ashley

 

 

Ashley,

 

Thanks for sticking with us on this, but could you be good enough to go back to them again and get them to give us an explanation of how that recommendation makes sense with the engines being identical?

[FordService]

Ashley,

 

Thanks for sticking with us on this, but could you be good enough to go back to them again and get them to give us an explanation of how that recommendation makes sense with the engines being identical?

 

Smiling Jack,

 

Vehicle design processes and engineering specifics are considered proprietary info, and are not available to the public.

 

Ashley

[PJFW8]

Ashley is caught in the middle.  Recommendations are not just engineering but involve avoiding customer confusion, dealer profit concerns and other practical concerns.  The best example is the oil change interval.  In Europe no one would change oil every 3,000 miles.  It is considered irresponsible and environmentally reckless.  Every 10,000 or even 20,000 is common. In the US Mercedes was 20,000 plus, but dealers and customers had trouble accepting such long intervals.  I know for a fact that Ford engineers think 7,500 or even 10,000 is not necessary!

That being said, I have trouble going beyond 7,500. Oil is cheap. I'm sure 0W-20 is fine. Mobil 1 and other name brand synthetics exceed the viscosity range listed but I will use 5W-20 to save my warranty. Thanks, Ashley, for your help!  This debate has no end. (Try asking a Ford engineer what they really think of Premium fuel in an 2.0L Ecoboost engine !)

[plus 3 golfer]

...... Mobil 1 and other name brand synthetics exceed the viscosity range listed but I will use 5W-20 to save my warranty. Thanks, Ashley, for your help! This debate has no end. (Try asking a Ford engineer what they really think of Premium fuel in an 2.0L Ecoboost engine !)

I would argue that Mobil 1 0W20 AFE encompases the grade range of the Motorcraft oil (exceeds may be confusing implying something is wrong). Mobil 1 is better on the low end (cold start viscosity or winter "W" viscosity) and the same grade on the high end (100*C viscosity). But the more relevant numbers with respect to viscosity are the actual viscosity index and Cst numbers for the oils. As long as Mobil 1 meets or exceeds the Motorcraft spec WSS-M2C945-A , there is no warranty issue. The grades of oil have little meaning (except to the consumer as a relative measure), the grades encompass a range of kinematic viscosities. Also, it doesn't appear that Motorcraft has a full 0W20 oil. I would be more worried as to the TBN of the Motorcraft oil (fbov did a UOA at about 10k which showed a very low TBN of 0.5). I haven't been able to find the virgin TBN of the Motorcraft oils but Mobil 1 has an initial TBN of 8.8. Here's a comparison of Mobil 1 with the Motorcraft oil with respect to viscosity.

 

--------------------cSt@40C -cSt@100c -- Viscosity Index

0W20 Mobil 1 -- 44.8 ----------- 8.7 ------------- 173

 

5W20 Full ------- 45.9------------ 8.3 ------------- 159

5W20 Blend----- 50 -------------- 8.7 ------------- 164

0W20 Blend --- 44.69 --------- 8.52 ------------- 169

 

With respect to viscosity, I want a lower cSt@40*C for winter performance, a higher cSt@100*C for hot weather, and a higher viscosity index as that is a calculated value from Cst numbers to indicate viscosity change to temperature (higher means less change in viscosity for temperature difference).

 

But, I believe the bottom line is that by following the oil life monitor, checking oil level regularly, using spec oil (likely even with non-spec quality oil) one will not have an engine issue related to the lubricating oil. I also seriously doubt one will see a measurable FE improvement among the oils above. For comparison, one might see a FE difference is one used Motorcraft 5W30 oils with these viscosities:

 

5W30 Blend --- 65 ------------ 10.8 -------------163

5W30 Full ------ 60 ------------ 10.5 ------------ 166

Edited February 16, 2014 by Plus 3 Golfer

[Smiling Jack]

Smiling Jack,

 

Vehicle design processes and engineering specifics are considered proprietary info, and are not available to the public.

 

Ashley

But if there were actually any changes, the 2014 engine certainly SHOULD have a different part number, ant it apparently does not.  (The part numbers are in the public domain; so the fact that there was no design change is therefore publicly available info.)

[plus 3 golfer]

Here's a graph I found that might help in explaining why one wants an oil with a high Viscosity Index other things be the same.  The Green line could represent Motorcraft 5W20 Blend.  The Red line could represent Mobil 1 0W20.  Both have the same viscosity at 100*C but Mobil 1 has a higher VI.  Thus, there is the potential for fuel economy savings at temps below 100*C and better durability above 100*C using Mobil 1 vs Motorcraft 5W20 blend.  The olive colored dashed line might represent Motorcraft 5W20 full synthetic as its 100*C viscosity is lower than the Red and Green curves at 100*C but the slope would be slight better than what's depicted.  It's slope would be tilted more towards the Red line. 

 

Edited November 30, 2014 by Plus 3 Golfer

[fbov]

Two comments on a nice description.

 

There are two ways to achieve a high VI, by starting with a high VI base fluid, or by adding VII's - viscosity index improvers - to a low VI fluid. You want high VI, but in the base oil, not as a result of VIIs.

 

The olive line looks more like aged dino-juice than new 5W20 synth.

- same slope, but you agree it should be lower

- lower viscosity @ 100C, which means it's not 20 grade, as one suspects from the labeling.

 

I would expect Mobil 1 5W20 and Motorcraft Synth 5W20 to have very similar properties on a chart like this. I don't see a techincal basis for assuming otherwise.

 

Have fun,

Frank

[webcontrol]

From I read, Toyota Prius owners have been using 0W20 Mobile-1 full syn oil with great success. I think Ford should be fine, too. I saw some manufactures made changes to its parts, but still give same part number, Ford might do that here.  Even through 2013 and 2014 engine labeled with same part number, they are probably different in some detailed spec, like cylinder tolerance range, etc.  Using 0W20 oil in 2013 C-MAX might cause engine knocking.  I will stick with 5W20 full oil for my C-MAX 2013.

 

However, I am not sure I understand the reason some the posting saying that Mobile-1 full syn oil not as good as Motorcraft one's.