Battery dead

[salman]

Bought a CMAX SE last Monday, battery dead Sunday. Jumped by roadside assistance. Still starts tdoday. Bringing it to service on Wednesday. (I have not used the USB or other outlets. I do not have push button start).

 

Having read this and several other threads it is clear that there is a common problem afflicting more than a dozen owners who have posted on the web. How many more cars have exhibited similar problems is impossible to say. This is a common problem.

 

The problem is either defective batteries from a sub-par supplier or, possibly, an electrical malfunction elsewhere that discharges and fries the 12 volt battery. Whatever the root cause is, it is clearly a manufacturer's defect rather than a random problem. It is happening too often.

 

I have written to Ford and all who encounter this problem should also write to Ford about the problem. Go to the dealer for service, too, of course, but letting Ford hear about it should push them toward finding a  solution.

[Laurel]

Battery dead for me again this morning. Dealership didn't find any issues with it last time I took it in, battery was testing at factory standard. My rear hatch light was flickering when I got into the car this morning, which gave me the feeling it wasn't going to start.

 

I know for a fact I didn't have the brake pressed when I shut it off yesterday... nothing plugged in the outlets.

 

With that flickering hatch light, wouldn't that indicate that the hatch wasn't closed fully and that drained the battery?  I think that I have read another person found the battery dead after a door wasn't fully closed.  One wouldn't think that the battery should die with a door ajar or a hatch not fully closed, but it looks like that may be happening.

Edited December 25, 2012 by Laurel

[PWBarrett]

After reading all of these, I just went out and bought a rechargeable jump-starter.

Maybe that'll get Murphy's law to work in my favor and prevent the problem from happening.

(I know, Murphy's law doesn't work that way.)

[Laurel]

Hubby was watching the Shopping Chanel and bought two of these.  Mixed reviews about whether they actually work, but I have one in my C-Max  http://www.theshoppingchannel.com/Tools-Gadgets/Mighty-Jump-Avenger-2-Pack/pages/productdetails?nav=R:510483

[andrewwx]

I bought my portable jumper at Costco. I have had to use it three times so far. It works great. Since it does not have to turn a starter motor it actually needs very little juice from the portable jumper.

 

I thought I had the problem licked when they found that my original battery had a fault in it. I will bring it in again and hope they can find the deeper problem.

[valkraider]

Make sure to call Ford about this. This is way way wrong on a new vehicle.

 

Also - if you can, call Ford roadside assistance and let them come "jump-start" you. Maybe the more exposure Ford gets about this the sooner they will act.

[mbedit]

More of an update. My C-max has been in the dealer shop for 3 weeks now, and it looks like it will be a full month with no resolution of the problem. They are seeing an intermittent spike, but have been unable to trace the actual source of it down. Ford has had a Service engineer down from Detroit Twice now, and even the FSE has said that if they run out of ideas they will sign off on a buyback. 

 

I never brought up the buy back, so I decided I need to find a Lemon Law Lawyer and get a consultation. I think I'm at the point that if they can't get the problem resolved after being in the shop for a month, its time to move on. 

 

If it makes any difference, mine was just a base model, using a key, w/no start/Stop button. 

 

I've heard that with a start/stop, if you forget to press the stop you can drain your battery, but I don't see how that can be the case with a keyed version. 

 

and as Valkraider says, be sure and call Ford to log the case, if they don't have the data, they don't think there is an issue.

[darrelld]

More of an update. My C-max has been in the dealer shop for 3 weeks now, and it looks like it will be a full month with no resolution of the problem. They are seeing an intermittent spike, but have been unable to trace the actual source of it down. Ford has had a Service engineer down from Detroit Twice now, and even the FSE has said that if they run out of ideas they will sign off on a buyback. 

 

I never brought up the buy back, so I decided I need to find a Lemon Law Lawyer and get a consultation. I think I'm at the point that if they can't get the problem resolved after being in the shop for a month, its time to move on. 

 

If it makes any difference, mine was just a base model, using a key, w/no start/Stop button. 

 

I've heard that with a start/stop, if you forget to press the stop you can drain your battery, but I don't see how that can be the case with a keyed version. 

 

and as Valkraider says, be sure and call Ford to log the case, if they don't have the data, they don't think there is an issue.

 

I would take the buy back as soon as possible.

 

What do you plan to replace with?

[salman]

Dear mbedit

 

Would you please (if you feel comfortable doing so) post some more information about your contacts with Ford? For example, the name and contact info for the Service Engineer or anyone else at Ford you think was helpful? Or the name of the dealership you have been using for service?

 

My CMAX SE is at the shop today. On Sunday the 12 volt battery was dead. It was jumped by roadside assistance on Sunday and it started on Monday, Tuesday, and today. I told the service manager what had happened and also told him that at least 15 reports of battery problems have been loggedon forums. His computer shows no service advisories from Ford.

 

Thanks

[FoutsNC]

Make sure to call Ford about this. This is way way wrong on a new vehicle.

 

Also - if you can, call Ford roadside assistance and let them come "jump-start" you. Maybe the more exposure Ford gets about this the sooner they will act.

 

I haven't had any issues yet (knocking on wood) with my battery, yet I have to second what valkraider is saying here.  Don't just jump the car, call Ford Roadside Assistance and have them jump you.  If nothing else, I would call and log the issue and then callback to cancel the call once you jump it.  You may also want to call into your local Ford Service Department and let them know.  If they don't know what's going on, they can't react to it.  Ford wants their hybrid line to be successful and I think they are doing what they can to make it right.

[salman]

 I am on the phone with Ford corporate customer service (800-392-3673) telling them about my problem and telling them that I know they sent a service engineer to work on a similar problem in Wilmington NC. The agent has taken my information and has me on hold now while I gather she is talking to someone about it.

 

Please call and write to Ford. Writing is always better because it gives you a paper trail. I have written once already and will write again now that I know they have already heard about the problem enought to send a service engineer to one dealer.

 

I'll post an update when I have more info.

[salman]

Ford corporate says a customer service manager will call me back tomorrow. They will check their database for reports of battery/electrical trouble.

 

I did find out that Ford maintains a "hotline" for service departments to call Ford for technical advice. It probably makes sense for anyone with a battery problem to ask their dealer's service department to call this hotline.

[Jeffrey]

We have had our CMAX for a month, and 1 morning totally dead.  Ford Roadside assistance was great and a tow truck jumped it.  No signs of anything left on overnite.  Now the windows aren't going up correctly and drivers door doesn't lock with the remote.  Car going to dealer next week.  I've read somewhere of faulty instrument panels, anybody else have similar problems?

 

Thanks for your reply.

[salman]

Jeffrey

 

Please call Ford's corporate customer service in addition to going to your dealer. There is obviously a battery and/or electrical flaw in the CMAX and Ford needs to hear about it. So far, Ford has not alerted its dealers & service centers to any issues, and the service centers think each car coming in is a unique case.

 

My car is spending the night at the dealer. The service rep told me the battery tested within specs but was not fully charged. They charged it and want to run the car for a day to see what happens. They have not yet tested the alternator or the rest fo the electrical system to figure out why the battery did not have a full charge, but I have asked them to do so, and also to call Ford Manufacturing's hotline for its service centers.

[valkraider]

On Ford vehicles there is a procedure to reset the power window behavior. Look for that, I don't know what it is though.

[dtorres]

After 4000 miles and three months I had my first dead battery this morning too.

 

Like someone else mentioned my hatch/dome lights were flashing. Dash displays and radio would not turn on. After a jump from my wife's car everything seemed fine. I hope it doesn't happen again.

[Laurel]

See page 97 of the owner's manual. It says you must re-set the bounce-back memory for each window after the battery has been disconnected (maybe dead battery too?). I guess your car needs to have the bounce-back features if page 97 is to apply to your situation which I gather would only be SEL.

[dtorres]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Laurel" data-cid="4742" data-time="1356582517"><p>

See page 97 of the owner's manual. It says you must re-set the bounce-back memory for each window after the battery has been disconnected (maybe dead battery too?). I guess your car needs to have the bounce-back features if page 97 is to apply to your situation which I gather would only be SEL.</p></blockquote>

 

After my battery died this morning the auto up/down feature of the windows wasn't working (on an SE model). I had to follow the procedure in the manual to reprogram each window one at a time. :-[

[salman]

Update on my CMAX SE:

 

The service manager did not know that the battery gauge on the dashboard is for the high voltage Lithium Ion battery for the hybrid engine and not for the 12 Volt!!!! So all he has done is charge the 12 volt with a plug in charger and declared that he cannot find a problem. I asked him to check the alternator to make sure it is charging the 12 volt battery and to check the electrical system for a power drain or short - I do not think he is doing it.

 

I called Ford corporate customer service again to update my file. Ford's central number is 800-392-3673. They say they will call me back today by 3PM Pacific Time.

 

Please be sure to call Ford directly about any problem with the battery and/or electrical system. Call Ford as well as your dealer. It is Ford's central corporate and manufacturing arm that has to figure out the problem and the solution.

[darrelld]

Update on my CMAX SE:

 

The service manager did not know that the battery gauge on the dashboard is for the high voltage Lithium Ion battery for the hybrid engine and not for the 12 Volt!!!! So all he has done is charge the 12 volt with a plug in charger and declared that he cannot find a problem. I asked him to check the alternator to make sure it is charging the 12 volt battery and to check the electrical system for a power drain or short - I do not think he is doing it.

 

I called Ford corporate customer service again to update my file. Ford's central number is 800-392-3673. They say they will call me back today by 3PM Pacific Time.

 

Please be sure to call Ford directly about any problem with the battery and/or electrical system. Call Ford as well as your dealer. It is Ford's central corporate and manufacturing arm that has to figure out the problem and the solution.

 

Thanks for the update. If available, should we look for a Ford Certified EV dealer for these types of issues? Might be a good question for Ford Corporate to answer and save owners a lot of hassle.

Edited December 27, 2012 by darrelld

[salman]

Yes, one of the questions I have pending in my file at Ford HQ is whether the service personnel have been trained to handle hybrids. My guess is that they must have been trained. Ford has sold hybrids for several years already. But clearly there are flaws in the systems, both the training system and the electrical systems.

 

By the way, I am doing some more searching on the web and it looks to me like the Ford Focus CMAX that has been sold in the UK as a gas & diesel engine model has reports of its 12 volt battery going dead, too. Posters on those UK blogs say that there is a "smart" charging system in the engines ECU. I wonder if there is a clue in that story. Depends on whether the sysytem was changed for the  new hybrid models sold in the US.

[Bob999]

 I asked him to check the alternator to make sure it is charging the 12 volt battery and to check the electrical system for a power drain or short - I do not think he is doing it.

 

The CMAX doesn't have a traditional alternator.  As I understand the system the high voltage battery is charged by motor generators located in the transaxle.  Then there is an electronic circuit that converts the high voltage power to charge the 12 v battery.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Bob999

[salman]

The CMAX doesn't have a traditional alternator.  As I understand the system the high voltage battery is charged by motor generators located in the transaxle.  Then there is an electronic circuit that converts the high voltage power to charge the 12 v battery.

 

 

Thanks. That is helpful - something i did not know and the service manager apparently also did not know. I am going to try to do some reading about this. The converter that charges the 12 volt battery from the high voltage Lithium Ion battery would seem to be one of the first things to check when 12 volts start washing ashore dead.

[darrelld]

Here is a pdf that describes some of the electrical components.

 

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=21F166D7103540!4208&authkey=!APyFF4INq4NvEZQ

 

Page 7 briefly describes the DC/DC converter that charges the 12v battery. Seems like a rudimentary check to make certain this works.

Edited December 27, 2012 by darrelld

[salman]

yes, hybrids generally charge the 12 volt battery with a step down converter that converts power from the high voltage battery.

 

seems like one of the first things to check after bench testing a battery.