Battery dead

[Hybrid dude]

And dead vehicle again just now, 3 min. on the simple start, back in action. All voltage back to normal, clock was a few hours off, as last time NPI.

[stevedebi]

As the OP of this topic, I had the pleasure of my 5th (or maybe 6th, as I've lost count) dead vehicle incident the other morning, as usual, after a night parked in my spot. Thanks to the Stanley simple start, I was up and running after only three minutes of charge into the cargo area 12V outlet. I was lucky, since the Stanley start had only about 20% full charge. My plug-in voltmeter indicated normal conditions once the vehicle was back up and running. When the vehicle was dead, the meter displayed nothing.

 

As a side note, I did request a buyback from Ford, which was denied because it didn't meet Mass. lemon laws, or something like that. I was offered a little peace of mind insurance (won't go into detail) but know it would only cover non-battery related problems, since it makes no difference when I have these dead-vehicle issues.  They won't authorize a check of the coolant pump connectors because it is not a known fix, and I'm not going to pay myself either.

 

As I've stated before, I really like a lot of things about the C-Max, handling, acceleration, room especially in the back seat, etc., but may leave the fold. I really didn't like other hybrid choices a few years ago, and don't know if I can ever go back to a non-hybrid. My overall MPG is only about 36, despite using various hypermiling techniques. The most recent tank was about 32, but remember it's getting cold in these parts.

 

I still have a hard time, despite other members explanations, that I have  that low an overall MPG, even with more than a third of my almost 30K miles on electric. 

 

If anyone can recommend another vehicle, feel free. I've even considered getting a 2014 C-Max, since there are quite a few rebates/incentives, it might be worth it.  

 

Frustrated.

Did you speak with a lawyer experienced in this sort of thing? You might have to sue.

[ptjones]

And dead vehicle again just now, 3 min. on the simple start, back in action. All voltage back to normal, clock was a few hours off, as last time NPI.

Maybe a different FORD Dealer could figure out the problem. :)

 

Paul

[Hybrid dude]

Thanks for advice, no, not hired a lawyer, don't really want to spend that kind of time. Going to another dealer would be a hassle, haven to explain entire story, etc.

 

If Ford had agreed to buyback, the lemon law here, plus the almost 30K miles I have on the vehicle would have resulted in a large amount of money deducted for 'use'. I have considered trading in for a 2014 C-Max, which as you may know has a large incentive now and might be an almost equivalent price with rebates, trade-in, etc.

[stevedebi]

Thanks for advice, no, not hired a lawyer, don't really want to spend that kind of time. Going to another dealer would be a hassle, haven to explain entire story, etc.

 

If Ford had agreed to buyback, the lemon law here, plus the almost 30K miles I have on the vehicle would have resulted in a large amount of money deducted for 'use'. I have considered trading in for a 2014 C-Max, which as you may know has a large incentive now and might be an almost equivalent price with rebates, trade-in, etc.

If you trade, consider the Energi. With state and federal rebates it was actually cheaper (by a little) for me when I bought, over the normal C-Max.

[Hybrid dude]

Yes, I've thought about a new 2014 Energi with all the rebate, tax deductions, state rebate, etc.. My dealer has a few on the lot which, from the window sticker code, were made in August.

[ptjones]

I just drove a 2015 FFH which should be the same as CMAX and I don't like not having LifeTime, at least a couple Smart Gauge displays are gone and Trip Gauges don't should gallons used now. IMO I would make them fix the car, it looks like the 2013 was the best year! :drop:

 

Paul

[stevedebi]

I just drove a 2015 FFH which should be the same as CMAX and I don't like not having LifeTime, at least a couple Smart Gauge displays are gone and Trip Gauges don't should gallons used now. IMO I would make them fix the car, it looks like the 2013 was the best year! :drop:

 

Paul

The trip guages have to be customize to show detailed data like gallons. I found that out in my 2014. Not sure if the 2015 is the same way.

[ptjones]

The trip guages have to be customize to show detailed data like gallons. I found that out in my 2014. Not sure if the 2015 is the same way.

I tried to change them, but couldn't find away to do it. 2013CMAX is also customizable on trip gauge. :) 

 

Paul

[stevedebi]

I tried to change them, but couldn't find away to do it. 2013CMAX is also customizable on trip gauge. :)

 

Paul

Now that is strange. How are folks supposed to figure their MPG?

 

EDIT: I mean, deleting the guage is useless - folks can figure the mileage from the odometer.

 

I wonder if the Energi version also deleted the KW used, which was in that same area. That would make it difficult to calculate MPGe, at least using the car features (as opposed to measuring the electric costs at the wall plug). But maybe the Energi is different.

Edited December 17, 2014 by stevedebi

[ptjones]

I was disappointed with the changes, it's like getting rid of a problem in stead of fixing it. Maybe cheaper. ;)

 

Paul

[stevedebi]

I was disappointed with the changes, it's like getting rid of a problem in stead of fixing it. Maybe cheaper. ;)

 

Paul

Ford has done a lot of that sort of thing, like removing MPGe because it shows a lower value than raw MPG. That rebate check really hit them, and they made a bunch of "perception" changes.

 

The one I hate the most is that they removed the dealer option to enable Daytime Running Lights on the 2014. It is automatically set at the factor for fleet sales, but cannot be set for retail sales. So the 2013 could have it, and the 2015 has it as a setting option that the owner can enable, but I cannot have it on my 2014. They even told the dealer (incorrectly) that it is illegal to go into the dealer accessable settings (it is illegal to HACK those settings, but not for the dealer to maniuplate them per factory instrucitons). I still get steamed about it, and I'm not sure about buying another Ford. It will just depend on how much I like this one after my lease runs out. To me it is a safety feature and should be enabled if desired - at least by the dealer. I try not to think about it - but I see DRL on cars every day (just not on mine).

 

It is not the DRL or lack thereof. It is the attitude displayed by their actions in this case. I've owned a lot of Fords in my life, and I like their engineering. But it may be back to Honda after this one, or maybe VW - my wife has a Passat, and the dealer and company has been great, plus it has great engineering.

 

EDIT: For those interested, what Ford did is remove the DRL setting from the Body Control Module (BCM) settings menu in the firmware. For the 2013, there was a setting that the dealer could simply enable. WHY they did it? I suspect because the DRL use a very small amount of electric energy and they didn't want any mileage impact - this despite the fact DRL is required in Canada, so it was engineered into the car.

Edited December 19, 2014 by stevedebi

[Adrian_L]

I'd go with Honda or Toyota.  The last three mechanics I had told me they'd never buy an Audi or VW.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/9815860/German-cars-lose-out-in-reliability-survey.html

[obob]

Ford has done a lot of that sort of thing, like removing MPGe because it shows a lower value than raw MPG. That rebate check really hit them, and they made a bunch of "perception" changes.

 

The one I hate the most is that they removed the dealer option to enable Daytime Running Lights on the 2014. It is automatically set at the factor for fleet sales, but cannot be set for retail sales. So the 2013 could have it, and the 2015 has it as a setting option that the owner can enable, but I cannot have it on my 2014. They even told the dealer (incorrectly) that it is illegal to go into the dealer accessable settings (it is illegal to HACK those settings, but not for the dealer to maniuplate them per factory instrucitons). I still get steamed about it, and I'm not sure about buying another Ford. It will just depend on how much I like this one after my lease runs out. To me it is a safety feature and should be enabled if desired - at least by the dealer. I try not to think about it - but I see DRL on cars every day (just not on mine).

 

It is not the DRL or lack thereof. It is the attitude displayed by their actions in this case. I've owned a lot of Fords in my life, and I like their engineering. But it may be back to Honda after this one, or maybe VW - my wife has a Passat, and the dealer and company has been great, plus it has great engineering.

 

EDIT: For those interested, what Ford did is remove the DRL setting from the Body Control Module (BCM) settings menu in the firmware. For the 2013, there was a setting that the dealer could simply enable. WHY they did it? I suspect because the DRL use a very small amount of electric energy and they didn't want any mileage impact - this despite the fact DRL is required in Canada, so it was engineered into the car.

 

FYI, as I recall, there is a thread around here that talks about a cludge for daytime running lights - something like put some opaque tape over the light sensor which my best guess is somewhere around the front dash.

 

The way I look at it, I bought a first model year car and this is what happens.  I suspect when I am getting ready for my next hybrid, the cars will be much better.  And I feel good about buying a car that puts Americans (North Americans) to work.

Edited December 23, 2014 by obob

[stevedebi]

FYI, as I recall, there is a thread around here that talks about a cludge for daytime running lights - something like put some opaque tape over the light sensor which my best guess is somewhere around the front dash.

 

The way I look at it, I bought a first model year car and this is what happens.  I suspect when I am getting ready for my next hybrid, the cars will be much better.  And I feel good about buying a car that puts Americans (North Americans) to work.

It is simpler just to turn on the headlights instead of covering the sensor - that is the daylight sensor, and all it does it turn on the headlights. I don't do this for two reasons. First, the main headlights use a lot more energy - the DRL are only 20% (as I recall) of the headlight energy. The second is that the headlights turn on the tail lights, which I find confusing to other drivers during the daytime. The DRL only turn on the forward lights - and make it much easier for others to see me when approaching. EDIT: I'm concerned about the energy use because I have a C-Max Energi, which has an EV mode - the less energy you use, the further it goes. Never the less, I am willing to part with the small amount of energy for DRL - safety first!

 

The problem I have with DRL is that the first year DOES have DRL - and so does the 2014. But only for fleet sales. My issue is that they won't allow it to be turned on by the dealer, and even removed the option of the dealer setting for 2014. Of course, for 2015 they made it avalabile to the operator in the left hand setup screens. But that doesn't help me.

 

But hey, what is one customer who may not repeat for Ford on the next purchase? I've gotten good service out of my dealer, and fortunately they sell several brands, including VW and Honda (my two next choices). But what this entire response to the C-Max MPG fiasco says about Ford corporate is not pleasant. They removed the MPGe, and DRL, and evidently removed the range indicator on the 2015 Energi as well - all because they apparently think the customer is not smart enough to figure out mileage themselves, and not smart enough to decide if DRL are needed or not. More than anything else, I have to be confident in the corporate philosophy behind the car I buy. That was solid before this car, and now it is shaky. As I said, it all depends on how I feel about the company in three years. It is no longer a solid "buy" for me.

Edited December 23, 2014 by stevedebi

[Adrian_L]

All very good points Steve, but there is no "Bambi" amongst car manufacturers.  Toyota misrepresented it's gas mileage.  Nissan was naughty too.  Don't get me started about GM.   Sad as it is, I enter a car dealership prepared to be misled and ripped off.  That way I'm pleasantly surprised when it doesn't happen. 

 

As for supporting the US economy by buying American brands?  Forget about it.   You'll put more money into Americans pockets by buying Honda.  Seriously.  I know this is tough news to the rednecks on the forum (you know who you are) and kind of reminds me of the guy who gets upset when a Belgian brewing giant took over Budweiser:  "Wild Turkey" for me from now on!!!"  Well the punch line was that Ricard/Pernod from France have owned Wild Turkey since 1980.  Sorry Billy-Bob.  

 

My first car was a 1993 Ford Festiva--good, solid American car.  No.....wait a minute---it's actually 100% Korean.  A Kia Pride with a Ford badge on the hood.  Nevertheless, it was a fun little car while it lasted.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Adrian_L

[stevedebi]

All very good points Steve, but there is no "Bambi" amongst car manufacturers.  Toyota misrepresented it's gas mileage.  Nissan was naughty too.  Don't get me started about GM.   Sad as it is, I enter a car dealership prepared to be misled and ripped off.  That way I'm pleasantly surprised when it doesn't happen. 

 

As for supporting the US economy by buying American brands?  Forget about it.   You'll put more money into Americans pockets by buying Honda.  Seriously.  I know this is tough news to the rednecks on the forum (you know who you are) and kind of reminds me of the guy who gets upset when a Belgian brewing giant took over Budweiser:  "Wild Turkey" for me from now on!!!"  Well the punch line was that Ricard/Pernod from France have owned Wild Turkey since 1980.  Sorry Billy-Bob.  

 

My first car was a 1993 Ford Festiva--good, solid American car.  No.....wait a minute---it's actually 100% Korean.  A Kia Pride with a Ford badge on the hood.  Nevertheless, it was a fun little car while it lasted.

Oh, I know each manufacturer has its issues - it is just that I've not had one with Honda or VW, and now I have had one with Ford. I've owned a lot of Fords in my life, and only a Honda and a VW otherwise. Anyway, it is interesting how a single event can color the perception. Of course, I'm getting to be older now, maybe that makes a difference!

[ptjones]

All very good points Steve, but there is no "Bambi" amongst car manufacturers.  Toyota misrepresented it's gas mileage.  Nissan was naughty too.  Don't get me started about GM.   Sad as it is, I enter a car dealership prepared to be misled and ripped off.  That way I'm pleasantly surprised when it doesn't happen. 

 

As for supporting the US economy by buying American brands?  Forget about it.   You'll put more money into Americans pockets by buying Honda.  Seriously.  I know this is tough news to the rednecks on the forum (you know who you are) and kind of reminds me of the guy who gets upset when a Belgian brewing giant took over Budweiser:  "Wild Turkey" for me from now on!!!"  Well the punch line was that Ricard/Pernod from France have owned Wild Turkey since 1980.  Sorry Billy-Bob.  

 

My first car was a 1993 Ford Festiva--good, solid American car.  No.....wait a minute---it's actually 100% Korean.  A Kia Pride with a Ford badge on the hood.  Nevertheless, it was a fun little car while it lasted.

We had this discussion a couple of years ago among Hybrids the CMAX has the highest percentage American/ North American made Parts of any Hybrid. :)

 

Paul

[Robert Fugate]

I don't own a Ford C Max yet, just curious have they finally come up with a fix for the dead battery issue?  I would think if it came down a circuit like the instrument panel or ECU.  

[raadsel]

I don't own a Ford C Max yet, just curious have they finally come up with a fix for the dead battery issue?  I would think if it came down a circuit like the instrument panel or ECU.  

 

There is a thread on a new customer service program that is battery related. It seems a bit unclear, from what I've seen so far, about what it actually does; it appears it could be a fix for it. I think we'll have to see what others report once they get this service done.

[Robert Fugate]

On top of checking current recalls out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF1gijj03_0

[obob]

Just had my third electrical shutdown this past Monday. 

 

My portable jumper worked fine.

 

Dealer couldn't work on car until Wednesday so at dealer now.

 

I assume they will do 15B04.

 

I am considering the lemon law option.

[tpowel2]

Has anyone else had to pay out of pocket to have TSB 14-0155 done?  My car has 42K Miles so it's out of warranty and dealership is quoting $1,000.00 to complete this TSB and replace the TCU.