Has anyone traded their Hybrid in for an Energi

[RMS13]

Just wondering if anyone out there has traded their hybrid in on the Energi? I don't think I would ever recover the cost difference but we do more short trips that medium or long. Most trips would be covered by the 20 mile EV range.

[fotomoto]

Kinda'.  Sorta'.   :confused:

 

I got the hybrid first and an energi a few months later so now we have twins (identical SEL's with 302a) and the wife drives the hybrid

 

 

 

 

 Previously, I had a Volt and was really missing the plug and EV driving.  I typically drive 40-70 EV miles a day with extra charging from a level two (240v) cord at home.   :superhero:    People have asked me which one I'd recommend and I say without hesitation the Energi IF trunk space isn't an issue.   At nearly 6 months in, I'm at 115 MPGe lifetime or about 445 mpg and excluding the complimentary dealer's tank I've spent $10.71 on gas (keeping 3 gallons of premium in it)!   :rockon:   My typical roundtrips average 10-18 miles.

 

As you said, the price premium would be very hard to overcome but I actually paid less for the NRG than the hybrid due to end of the year incentives by Ford, the dealer, and the $4,000 tax incentive.  

Edited April 23, 2014 by fotomoto

[PJFW8]

My Energi is my 3rd Hybrid but 1st plug-in.  Previous vehicles were a Lexus 400h and 2010 Fusion Hybrid.  Both were great cars! I got the Energi instead of the Hybrid version out of curiosity. I am hooked on plug-in cars.  The Energi has 11,000 miles 65% of which have been electric. Go for it!

[xanotos]

Hi all.

I'm thinking of doing this also, trading in my fully loaded SE for a SEL Energi.

But I got the car for 26K and more than likely the trade-in will be worth 18K and with rebates and credits and cash-back with the Energi, it's hard to lose so much in the deal.

And if I keep waiting, I'll lose more into my trade-in and maybe even the state and federal credits will run out!

decisions...... decisions....

Edited April 23, 2014 by xanotos

[Jus-A-CMax]

LOL, I was at Galpin for my 30K service and I talked with an Energi owner who had electronic issues, poor guy. He was asking me what I thought of my hybrid - and I told him I hated it, I wanted to get a Prius....

 

j.k.

 

...did someone lose their sense of humor? lol, nah...I told him I loved it.

 

 

He was wishing he bought a regular hybrid instead of the money on the Energi. He didn't think the 20 miles were worth it for the charge but he did say he drove it a lot, clocking something silly like 11,000 miles in 4 months (if I recall correctly). I told him I wished I had his battery, theres so many times I could have used the extra capacity...maybe we should have swapped cars.

 

Anyway, jus my 2c...carry on, nuthin to see here.... ;)

[Edsel]

The money you lose on the trade will likely pay for all of the gas you will use in the hybrid.(maybe even more)  I didn't do the math, but I bet I'm not far off.

[plus 3 golfer]

RMS13, I have been doing extensive research analysis on PHEVs, HEVs, and EVs for several years (since 2008) hoping to find a PHEV or EV that met my needs at a reasonable price - I couldn't.  These are just a couple things I considered when looking at the NRG vs the Hybrid.

 

1) EV Range - at a nominal 20 mile range if one can only charge once per day (my case), that would mean that one's annual EV plug-in miles would be about 7300 miles maximum annually. Although some days when we make multiple trips, I could perhaps charge 2X a day but there would likely be many more days when the car was not driven.

 

2) Cost of Plug-in Energy - I feel most underestimate this cost neglecting the energy losses in charging and the cost of a higher level charger.  The NRG comes with a level 1 charger that plugs into 120 VAC which is not very efficient (around 70+%).  A level 2 charger (240VAC) will require additional equipment plus perhaps installation (not insignificant costs) but is 80+% efficient.

 

3) Cost of Non-EV miles - I don't know what the average FE might be in non-EV mode for the NRG but given the shorter transmission final drive and extra weight, I've got to believe that at freeway speeds the NRG will likely get poorer FE than the Hybrid.  I believe a 2-5% reduction would be reasonable. We take many longer trips a year.

 

Bottom line for me was that I'd save about $300 per year on 20k miles of driving per year on an NRG vs a Hybrid.  It would have cost $2300 more (after Federal tax credit) to buy a base NRG vs my base SEL Hybrid in Dec. 2012 not counting a level 2 charging equipment.  Add say $700 for a DIY installation.  That puts the total cost at around $3000 with savings of around $300 per year or a payback of 10 years.  Payback could be less but best case would be gas prices increase more than electric prices and I don't buy the level 2 charger.  I could possibly have seen a payback in less than 7 years.  If you only drive 7k miles a year or can recharge twice a day and extend the EV range to 40 miles per day, the savings could be $400 - $800 a year.   

 

We haven't even factored in depreciation on the trade. I don't believe many could TRADE their Hybrid in for an NRG and come out ahead (assuming no state Tax credit for the NRG). Depreciation even with very low miles on a Hybrid will add several thousand $ to the cost difference and as Edsel says "The money you lose on the trade will likely pay for all of the gas you will use in the hybrid.(maybe even more)  I didn't do the math, but I bet I'm not far off".   Does it make sense loosing $3k and probably more on the trade in depreciation alone?   

Edited April 24, 2014 by Plus 3 Golfer

[HPRifleman]

It really depends if someone is buying the car based on purely dollar return or for other reasons. My guess is that no one is buying a personal car based solely on ROI.

 

For me, with a 7 mile one-way commute, an Energi would be perfect even if I only charge at home. Unfortunately the reduction in cargo space made that model impractical for my needs.

[C-MaxSea]

As you said, the price premium would be very hard to overcome but I actually paid less for the NRG than the hybrid due to end of the year incentives by Ford, the dealer, and the $4,000 tax incentive.

 

  :hat_tip: Smart money Foto .......................... sooooooooo worth repeating.  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Edited April 25, 2014 by C-MaxSea

[C-MaxSea]

.......... and I worry about our ICE in our simple hybrid getting enough use to stay healthy - :headspin: silly me.   Hmmm, what's better, an ICE used 50% of the time, or an ICE used 10% of the time................... yes it all depends on ......................  miles driven, space needs............................ still lusting after an umbilical cord and more svelte hybrid batteries. ;)
 
nick

Edited April 25, 2014 by C-MaxSea

[plus 3 golfer]

It really depends if someone is buying the car based on purely dollar return or for other reasons. My guess is that no one is buying a personal car based solely on ROI.

 

For me, with a 7 mile one-way commute, an Energi would be perfect even if I only charge at home. Unfortunately the reduction in cargo space made that model impractical for my needs.

Economics is only one factor for me (and down on the list) but I and the OP are comparing virtually the same car but for plug-in capability (and hatch space if that is an issue).  If the OP wants a greener car, then trade for the NRG.  The original post is very clear on what is being considered. This thread is not on whether "no one is buying a personal car based solely on ROI" but on making up the cost difference between similar cars.

 

To your point though, I guess that's why people are still buying Leafs - save the environment not their pocketbook.  IMO, the current Leaf make little economic sense as the Leaf has a significant HVB degradation problem especially in hotter climates which will significantly limits their range until the HVB is replaced (again and again) at big $$$.  There are similar / better cars available (C-Max for one).  To get around this degradation issue it seems NIssan has good short term lease deals on MY 2013 and also has offered a $100/month HVB replacement lease / extended warranty. So, IMO, the Leaf with the HVB degradation issue is a "throw away" car - lease it 2 years / 20k miles to save likely $40-$80 a month in fuel costs over a 50 - 30 mpg vehicle and then "throw" it back to Nissan lest you want to buy it by paying a residual value higher than current resale values indicate it will be worth and then start paying $100 / month for the battery lease.  But people will do it. :confused:

[RMS13]

I appreciate the comments. First off I am not a "greenie" nor do I try to save every penny. Sometimes convenience and future costs are part of the equation. Its just you don't know all the factors. I have looked at the costs of getting a new 2013 Energi over my Hybrid. It will not pay for itself in the time I plan to keep the car. Including all the 13 incentives and the tax credit the loss will not be much, ~$ 4K which I'll be able to save about $ 800 per year on gas. I figure the price of gasoline will continue to go up, $4 by year's end and over $5 in three. The CMax is mainly used for short trips and the 20 mile range of the battery will normally not be exceeded. My main issue with the Energi is the lack of cargo area. Usually at most three ride in the car and normally only 2 ride in the car. With this we can fold down the rear seat and have enough space for my wife's purchases. This cargo issue what I am still considering. Of course the price differential negotiation with the dealer will be another unpleasant experience.

[plus 3 golfer]

Well, if you want to hedge your bet on gas prices get the NRG but EIA (April 8, 2014) shows this as their short term forecast.  Looks pretty flat with seasonal variations.  Long term forecast do not show $5 gas and in real terms show a declining price for gasoline.  There is plenty of natural gas and crude oil to meet projected demand. But, WWIII could change this. :) 

 

 

 

[RMS13]

I am thinking about the spot shortages last year when a couple of the refineries had issues plus I don't see the US economy and especially the US government moving in a positive direction for growth. Its hard to stay the same, very hard to grow, but easy to go down as we have gone in the last few years.

[fotomoto]

 My main issue with the Energi is the lack of cargo area.

 

Grocery shopping for a family of four is no problem in the NRG.   It's a three mile trip. 

 

[Tdefny]

I love my Energi, but I doubt I would trade in a perfectly good C-Max prematurely for an Energi. Better to get your money's worth from the hybrid. You would take a bath on the trade and it would be difficult to recover the difference, at least in NY, where gas miles and EV miles cost similar due to high electric rates.

 

Having said that, i love making my daily drive on one charge. I especially love doing a local trip without lighting up the ICE. That always drove me crazy on my Prius.

[JohnnOhio]

Maybe in a couple of more years we can buy replacement batteries with twice the range and be the same size as our regular  hybrid battery. Or we could just trade up to the latest and greatest.

[timwil56]

I also wouldn't recommend someone trading in a 1-2 year old Hybrid for an Energi, unless you can sell to a private party for more money than you owe, because a dealership is going to low ball you. When I considered purchasing my Energi, I thought about how I was going to use it and if I would maximize the 20-25 miles of EV for my daily use. If I don't have to run any errands after work, I can make my 19 mile round trip on EV. This morning I used 3.2 miles of ICE because it was cold as &)%# and raining so I needed heat and defrost. I'll be retiring in 3 years to Sun City, AZ and between trips to the grocery, golf course, rec center, restaurants, Home Depot, which are all within 1/2 to 10 miles from my house, I should rarely need to run the ICE. That's what I believe a person needs to consider when deciding between a PHEV and an HEV, can you maximize the full electric for your daily needs. I like to maximize regen, but don't worry about it too much, because I plug in every night. I haven't purchased gas since 3/23 after a 200 mile road trip and the only reason it's now just below 1/2 tank, is I intentionally burned gas to maintain 1/4 - 1/2 tank to lighten the load and keep it fresh.

[RMS13]

I know the trade-in would be a bummer but the $4,000 tax credit will offset the beating. Looks like the monthly cost of the NRG would be $100. That is the monthly payment less the gas savings.