Does it ever get fixed?

[Cowspotdog]

I have just had my 8th flat battery ....every time it happens I take it back to my Ford dealer, they run diagnostics, update software and say it is fixed but it never is. It would of have happened even more than 8 times  but I have learned to listen to the car when I turn it off....if it is still 'humming'  I know it hasn't turned off properely and I just restart the car and turn it off again. Yesterday it went into to have a recall repair done on it - and today flat battery. I am seriously thinking I will have to buy a portable battery charger to carry with me at all times as one of these days it is going to happen when I am not at home.  Thankfully to date it has always gone flat between 2.30-3,00 am.

[FordService]

I have just had my 8th flat battery ....every time it happens I take it back to my Ford dealer, they run diagnostics, update software and say it is fixed but it never is. It would of have happened even more than 8 times  but I have learned to listen to the car when I turn it off....if it is still 'humming'  I know it hasn't turned off properely and I just restart the car and turn it off again. Yesterday it went into to have a recall repair done on it - and today flat battery. I am seriously thinking I will have to buy a portable battery charger to carry with me at all times as one of these days it is going to happen when I am not at home.  Thankfully to date it has always gone flat between 2.30-3,00 am.

 

Cowspotdog,

 

Let me lend you a hand. PM me your name, phone number, VIN, mileage, and dealer info. I'll take a look.

 

Ashley

[DaveofDurham]

Cowspotdog

 

Sorry about your persistent 12v problem.  Have you thoroughly studied the "Battery dead" thread?  If all your dealer has done is to run diagnostics and update software, they have not done all they should be doing.  Go to http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/361-battery-dead/page-64  start with excellent post #1261 (re leaky electrical connectors) from earlier today and start working your way back.

[Cmax lover]

This is the 2nd time I've had a dead battery.  No answers from Ford. I love my CMAX and am very upset this is happening.  My car sits at my dealer (not where I bought it) which is close to me while I have a temporary loaner.  I've asked the local rep to have Ford supply me a rental car, but no answer so far from her.  This problem is supposed to be resolved by the 3rd quarter of this year (end of Sept.).  So what do I do until then?  My rep said to keep having it towed???? It's my only car.  Do I have it towed 2 more times and proceed with the lemon law or start a buyback from Ford.  Confused about all of this.  PLEASE HELP!!

[Cmax lover]

Cowspotdog,

 

Let me lend you a hand. PM me your name, phone number, VIN, mileage, and dealer info. I'll take a look.

 

Ashley

Can I give you mine too??? :)

Edited July 12, 2014 by Cmax lover

[ptjones]

Can I give you mine too??? :)  I don't know how to PM you unless you're on facebook!!!

Just click on her Avatar and private message her. Would recommend a jumper battery to save you time. :) 

 

Paul

[FordService]

Can I give you mine too??? :)

 

I sent you a reply earlier this morning, Cmax lover!

 

Ashley

[banditb17]

I haven't had this happen once even... but it worries me a bit. Maybe I should get a portable jump kit.

 

What are the factors that cause this kind of thing to happen? Heat? Humidity? State of battery bank at end of drive?

[kostby]

I haven't had this happen once even... but it worries me a bit. Maybe I should get a portable jump kit.

 

What are the factors that cause this kind of thing to happen? Heat? Humidity? State of battery bank at end of drive?

 

I'm not a Ford representative. These are my opinions, and this is my attempt to summarize what I've learned, based upon several months of C-MAX SE ownership and a lot of reading in these forums and elsewhere. 

 

Most of the over 60,000 C-MAX Hybrid and C-MAX Energi owners have never experienced even one dead 12-volt battery. The 12-volt dead battery problems reported do not seem at all related to the lithium-ion High Voltage Battery (HVB) used to power the car in electric-hybrid mode.

 

To summarize briefly, as of today, July 14th, 2014, of the 100 or so 2013 C-MAX owners reporting dead 12-volt batteries in this unscientific 2013 'dead battery poll' within these forums, the majority (about 60 of the 100) who experienced problems have the 2013 C-MAX SE, with either Equipment Group 200A (base car) or Equipment Group 201A (adds power tailgate, reverse object sensing, ambient lighting).

 

The other 40 owners reporting problems were spread pretty evenly among the other SE and SEL and Energi SEL models and option groups with no more than about 5 in any other group.

 

Cars built early in the 2013 model year, especially those built between the summer of 2012 and the summer of 2013 seem most affected.

Very few 2014 C-MAX owners of any model or equipment group have reported multiple occurrences of dead batteries in these forums.

 

There are several corrective actions taken by Ford that have, individually or collectively remedied many of the repeated dead battery problems experienced by many of the 2013 C-MAX owners who have posted messages in these forums:

1. Replacement of the factory-installed 12-volt battery. In some cases, the cars sat for long periods of time at the dealerships before being sold, or the 12-volt batteries were defective.

2. Customer Satisfaction Program 13B12, reprogramming one of the on-board computers.

3. Several corrective actions related to water intrusion of electrical connectors and/or the electric coolant pump under the front of the vehicle near the engine. Driving in wet weather or using a car wash can cause water intrusion in some connectors or electric-powered accessories near the engine. When wet, these can 'drain' the 12-volt battery power, eventually running the battery down as quickly as overnight, or over a few days. At that point, the remote unlocking no longer works, and the car must be opened with a key blade. In most cases, a jump start gets the 12-volt systems powered up and then the vehicle can be started again.

 

This is not an exhaustive list of all the corrective actions and recalls taken with every vehicle, just the ones most frequently mentioned.

 

Sometimes software updates do not 'take' correctly the first time.

Apparently not every Ford dealer is well-equipped to address every Hybrid customer concern.

 

So Ford corporate has three direct representatives who frequent these forums to offer assistance, FordService (Ashley) for most C-MAX issues and FordIVTteam (Rebecca) with Ford Sync issues. Canadian owners can contact FordServiceCA. If you're new to the forums, you must post at least 5 messages before you can use the Private Messaging (PM) feature to send any of them a private message directly. You can always post a public message in these forums asking for their assistance.

Edited July 15, 2014 by kostby

[banditb17]

Thanks for the info. I think I fit into the 201A group with an early 2013 SE model.

 

Crossing my fingers!

[kostby]

Thanks for the info. I think I fit into the 201A group with an early 2013 SE model.

 

Crossing my fingers!

 

Ford is constantly trying to help dealer service departments diagnose and correct customer issues.

Don't forget Ford provides 5 years of free roadside assistance from date of purchase too.

 

Be certain you've gotten all the software updates, any recall notices, keep in touch with your dealer service department,  check these forums at least occasionally, and watch for imminent signs that your 12v battery is losing power. 

 

If you travel out of cellular-service range, far from service stations, or keep a tight schedule where waiting 30 minutes or an hour for a service vehicle to give you a jump start is not convenient, I recommend purchasing a small jump-starter battery for about $50 as 'insurance'. The car actually uses the High Voltage Battery to start the engine, but the car electronics need to be powered up for that to happen. 

 

We've owned our 'early' 2013 SE built in April 2013 with Equipment Group 201A and purchased new in March 2014 for almost 4 months.

I've kept a log ever since we brought it home. We don't drive it every day, and some times we drive only short distances for days on end. Thus far we've had two dead battery incidents, both at home in the garage overnight, and the car hadn't been driven for at least the previous 24 hours or longer. Each time, I simply plugged in my trickle charger, and with power to the 12-volt battery, the car started immediately.

 

As I'm learning more about the symptoms and causes, I'm NOW seeing correlations in my log when seemingly random occurrences now point to a low 12-volt battery charge, especially following a trip to the car wash, or driving on a rainy day.

 

I'm still accumulating sufficient battery log data and soon I'll schedule an appointment with the dealer service manager to reprogram the restraints module per the recent recall notice, and hopefully address what appears to be a water intrusion issue causing battery discharge, in just one visit.

 

You can check the actual voltage of the 12v using the 'Diagnostics' mode of the left steering wheel control buttons.

To enter diagnostics mode, hold down the Left OK button while turning the key to 'on'.  Keep holding OK until you see the 'Diagnostics' screens.

Then use the up/down buttons on the left side to page through the dozen or so display screens until you see the Battery voltage screen as attached.

 

When the car is 'on' but NOT in 'Ready to Drive' mode, the voltage should be 12.5 volts or greater.

 

When the car IS in 'Ready to Drive' mode, it should show 13.9 or 14 volts or higher

 

 

Here are some definite warning symptoms when the 12v battery charge is dropping in OUR car:

• The radio/CD player may suddenly give a 30 second warning that it is shutting down, especially when you listen to the radio or CD or when the car is linked to your phone via bluetooth after you've turned off the car but remained inside.
• When double-clicking the remote to lock the car, the horn gives a very weak beep.
• The rear lift gate may fail to power open or fail to power close and lock completely. If you try to lock the car with the lift gate or a door ajar, you'll get a double beep of the horn.
• The High Voltage Battery indicator icon in the left screen in our C-MAX SE goes completely blank (no blue at all, just a white outline) at least several hours before the voltage drops so low that the car won't unlock or start, yet the car drives properly in Hybrid mode. If driven far enough to recharge the battery, (10 or more miles of interstate highway driving) the indicator returns to normal the next time the car is started, and further low-voltage symptoms go away.
• The radio might not change stations at each button press, change stations with a long delay, or might not store stations properly.
• The center display clock might not have or keep the correct date and time.

Edited July 15, 2014 by kostby

[banditb17]

This post is very helpful. Thanks!

[Max Power]

This car is maddening.  Such a pleasure to drive and I get 44.8 MPG while driving aggressively on mountainous roads.  But alas today another dead car.  No response to key fob and a continual brrt, brrt, brrt noise from the back when I turned the key back.

 

I called roadside and had it towed to the dealer today and will have to contact them in the morning.  Not sure what to do since I moved states since buying it but I am in Virginia now and they state the same problem three times in the first 18 months make it a lemon.  PA law is a joke.

I bought the SE (base except winter package) in Feb of 2013 and had to call roadside the next day to get it jumped.  I figured it was just from sitting on the lot but it happened again.  I jumped it myself which the dealer acknowledged and applied TSB 13-7-yadda yadda yadda to it at my next visit.

 

After moving to VA the dealer again updated the software and replaced the 12V at my last oil change because they stated it failed to charge fully. I think they reapplied 13B12 the time before. Less than two thousand miles later on a brand new 12V battery leads up to today. I'm curious if they applied a wrong update?

 

 I really like this car but I need it to be reliable.

 

I guess I'll PM Ashley.

 

I vaguely recall the up and down HV battery arrows not appearing on my display the day before this happened so kostby might be on to something.  The darn car knows the 12V is low, why doesn't it tell me?

[Saul Kravitz]

First some advice:   If you experience this problem once, I recommend equipping yourself with this handy device  (MAXMADE® 11000mAh Dual USB Power Bank/Car Jump Starter Made of 400A-Peak-Current LiFePO4 Battery Up to 15 Ignition Times at Full Charge Perfect for Starting Your Car in Emergency with Ultra-bright LED Flashlight And Dual USB Output Also Charge for Apple and Android smartphones, tablets, and other USB-charged devices (White) -- on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K7UXT2O/ref=pe_385040_121528360_TE_dp_1 ).    This will give you the peace of mind that you will never be stranded.

 

I've struggled with this one on my (otherwise beloved) 2013 CMAX Energi.     One additional tell tale sign of impending doom were the Activity messages on MyFordMobile, along with associated text messages warning "12V battery is low".   Yesterday my dealer (Lindsay Ford in Wheaton, MD) ran battery diagnostics,  then replaced my 12V battery, and ran some (unspecified) software updates.   Now, I'm hoping for the best.

 

@Ashley:   Could you please connect with me, and check that all of the appropriate service bulletins have been applied to my car?

 

I think my usage pattern for the CMAX may stress the 12V battery.   I drive about 55 miles per day roundtrip, charging overnight, and at work.   So my net mileage on the ICE is only 4-6 miles.  My guess is that the 12V battery does not get charged when the car is plugged in to charge.   Can anybody confirm/deny this guess?   If confirmed, it would seem an odd design choice.  Buying gas once a month is a big win.

 

I'm hoping I can get past the dead battery issue, since otherwise, I'm VERY happy that I got upsold to the Energi (I originally intended to buy the hybrid).

Things my dealer did NOT tell me:

    1) MD offers HOV stickers for plug-in EVs....this saves me a little bit of time, but gives me immense pleasure

    2) MD offers an excise tax rebate, even for lessors.

[bro1999]

First some advice:   If you experience this problem once, I recommend equipping yourself with this handy device  (MAXMADE® 11000mAh Dual USB Power Bank/Car Jump Starter Made of 400A-Peak-Current LiFePO4 Battery Up to 15 Ignition Times at Full Charge Perfect for Starting Your Car in Emergency with Ultra-bright LED Flashlight And Dual USB Output Also Charge for Apple and Android smartphones, tablets, and other USB-charged devices (White) -- on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K7UXT2O/ref=pe_385040_121528360_TE_dp_1 ).    This will give you the peace of mind that you will never be stranded.

 

I've struggled with this one on my (otherwise beloved) 2013 CMAX Energi.     One additional tell tale sign of impending doom were the Activity messages on MyFordMobile, along with associated text messages warning "12V battery is low".   Yesterday my dealer (Lindsay Ford in Wheaton, MD) ran battery diagnostics,  then replaced my 12V battery, and ran some (unspecified) software updates.   Now, I'm hoping for the best.

 

@Ashley:   Could you please connect with me, and check that all of the appropriate service bulletins have been applied to my car?

 

I think my usage pattern for the CMAX may stress the 12V battery.   I drive about 55 miles per day roundtrip, charging overnight, and at work.   So my net mileage on the ICE is only 4-6 miles.  My guess is that the 12V battery does not get charged when the car is plugged in to charge.   Can anybody confirm/deny this guess?   If confirmed, it would seem an odd design choice.  Buying gas once a month is a big win.

 

I'm hoping I can get past the dead battery issue, since otherwise, I'm VERY happy that I got upsold to the Energi (I originally intended to buy the hybrid).

Things my dealer did NOT tell me:

    1) MD offers HOV stickers for plug-in EVs....this saves me a little bit of time, but gives me immense pleasure

    2) MD offers an excise tax rebate, even for lessors.

 

I also have a 2013 Energi. Build date was June 2013. I leased it this past March. There have been stretches where I have not run the ICE for weeks at a time, and so far I've never had a 12v battery issue. So I don't think minimal usage of the ICE has anything to do with the 12v problems. I've also made several 100+ mile drives in my NRG, and no problems whatsoever, besides having to burn dino juice. ;) I've been told the Energi charges the 12v when the HVB is charged, which is a reason the NRG's haven't been plagued by the 12v battery issue as much as the hybrids.

 

What is the build date of your C-Max?

Edited August 27, 2014 by bro1999

[Adrian_L]

Good points but don't forget you automatically get the SEL trim/model with the Energi.  .

[plus 3 golfer]

...

 

I think my usage pattern for the CMAX may stress the 12V battery.   I drive about 55 miles per day roundtrip, charging overnight, and at work.   So my net mileage on the ICE is only 4-6 miles.  My guess is that the 12V battery does not get charged when the car is plugged in to charge.   Can anybody confirm/deny this guess?   If confirmed, it would seem an odd design choice.  Buying gas once a month is a big win.

....

ICE charges the HVB not the 12 V battery.  There is a DC/DC converter that supplies power from the HVB to the 12 V system.  There is no alternator on ICE.  My understanding is that when charging the Energi, the 12 V system is active and used to power necessary control modules needed when charging the HVB and thus the DC/DC converter is active.which should keep the 12 V battery charged. 

[RobMax]

Thanks for the info. I think I fit into the 201A group with an early 2013 SE model.

 

Crossing my fingers!

 

Be aware that poll is likely showing nothing more than a correlation between the total number of those models sold. If more SE models are sold than any other model, then it stands to reason it would show the most problems, not necessarily that that model itself is more prone to the issue. 

 

...I think my usage pattern for the CMAX may stress the 12V battery.   I drive about 55 miles per day roundtrip, charging overnight, and at work.   So my net mileage on the ICE is only 4-6 miles.  My guess is that the 12V battery does not get charged when the car is plugged in to charge.   Can anybody confirm/deny this guess?   If confirmed, it would seem an odd design choice.  Buying gas once a month is a big win...

 

I believe I read that drdiesel and others verified the 12V does indeed get charged by the HBV/Charger when plugged in. In fact, I'm almost certain they said the 12V charging system works better after the most recent software upgrades. This was in the "dead battery" thread I think.

 

Cowspotdog, you should definitely have someone at the dealership who's qualified to look at the 12V battery thoroughly test it. Sounds like it's likely damaged and won't hold a charge properly at this point. A replacement that has been fully charged properly may be in order. Also, ensure the dealership looks up any battery TSBs and upgrades all modules to the latest code to minimize the likelihood of older code causing the discharge issues.

Edited August 27, 2014 by RobMax

[RobMax]

...Thankfully to date it has always gone flat between 2.30-3,00 am.

 

I'm curious how you verify this is when the 12V battery gets drained to the point of failure. Can you elaborate on this? I ask because it coincides with another member who verified a full 12.5V at ~1:30am but 8.5hrs later he read 5.2V.

Edited August 27, 2014 by RobMax

[Max Power]

No, it doesn't get fixed.

 

The CSM assigned to me doesn't respond.

 

The dealership schedules a repair and then says they don't have time, five hours after I dropped the car off.

 

My car currently has 3 recalls and a TSB for the dead 12v.  This is after a previous recall for the headliner, 4 dead batteries, and a service call to replace the canistor valve.

 

And now the creaking noise has begun.

 

I feel bad for recommending this car to other people at this point.

[ptjones]

Max Power you might look at my "Possible solution for Dead 12v Battery"  thread. It would be nice if someone with 12v battery problems tried this out to see if it wouldn't solve the problem. IMO :)

 

Paul

[RobMax]

No, it doesn't get fixed.

 

The CSM assigned to me doesn't respond.

 

The dealership schedules a repair and then says they don't have time, five hours after I dropped the car off.

 

My car currently has 3 recalls and a TSB for the dead 12v.  This is after a previous recall for the headliner, 4 dead batteries, and a service call to replace the canistor valve.

 

And now the creaking noise has begun.

 

I feel bad for recommending this car to other people at this point.

 

After an entire month and a half goes by between your updates and you say it's still not fixed I'm beginning to think you're making this stuff up to scare people away from the vehicle, troll-like. If not, you need to make more noise at the dealership and Ford Corporate level asap!

Personally I would have made such a scene 6 weeks ago they'd have given me a free rental while the work was done and had it completed weeks ago. Get on it if you're serious.

[Max Power]

After an entire month and a half goes by between your updates and you say it's still not fixed I'm beginning to think you're making this stuff up to scare people away from the vehicle, troll-like. If not, you need to make more noise at the dealership and Ford Corporate level asap!

Personally I would have made such a scene 6 weeks ago they'd have given me a free rental while the work was done and had it completed weeks ago. Get on it if you're serious.

 

I've been posting since Feb of 2013.  Long backstory for a troll, no?

 

Other than the 12V, these things do get fixed.  My problem is that every time one thing gets fixed there is another problem found.  I've been working on a timeline to illustrate the shear number of random problems my 2013 has had in addition to recalls.  I'll post it when it is done. To be fair to Ford, they are generally responsive it's just that the pile of things I need to manage doesn't get any smaller. I think I have had one oil change where I got my car back as expected. 

 

I still recommend Ford and I would still recommend the two dealerships I have dealt with. I just don't recommend buying a 2013 C-Max

[Max Power]

Max Power you might look at my "Possible solution for Dead 12v Battery"  thread. It would be nice if someone with 12v battery problems tried this out to see if it wouldn't solve the problem. IMO :)

 

Paul

I'm leaning towards thinking it is a harness short somewhere in interior. Hopefully TSB 14-0155 does the trick for me.  It's a good thing we have this forum or I would have had no clue about it.

[RobMax]

I've been posting since Feb of 2013.  Long backstory for a troll, no?

 

Other than the 12V, these things do get fixed.  My problem is that every time one thing gets fixed there is another problem found.  I've been working on a timeline to illustrate the shear number of random problems my 2013 has had in addition to recalls.  I'll post it when it is done. To be fair to Ford, they are generally responsive it's just that the pile of things I need to manage doesn't get any smaller. I think I have had one oil change where I got my car back as expected. 

 

I still recommend Ford and I would still recommend the two dealerships I have dealt with. I just don't recommend buying a 2013 C-Max

 

Dunno, about your post count, but I've seen trolls survive longer than that on other more-policed forums. I have 88 posts in less than 2 months and have helped far more than I've complained, so post count doesn't do much to prove anything. If the issues are so clear to you, but you haven't yet taken control of the dealership or the manufacturer by now then I'd certainly recommend you finally do so. Don't play the victim, just simply get whatever done that you think needs to get done. Take control. Lemon law the car if you've had that much trouble with it -- I know I would have. Your 1st post in this thread said, "I guess I'll PM Ashley". After that many problems, and apparent lack of response by anyone to resolve your problems, don't guess. You also state you would still recommend Ford and the dealership(s) in this thread and the separate thread you created, yet you say they don't do the work in a timely fashion and the CSM doesn't respond. That is the oddest thing I've seen written in quite awhile. Again, do not be a victim and get things taken care of, or get the vehicle lemon-lawed. Simple choice really.

 

I have no brand or model allegiance myself. Based on your posts you're well past being able to prove to car should be taken back, but based on my own and others' experiences you're either simply trolling or the least involved, and most taken advantage of owner I've ever seen posting. Again, I would recommend to anyone that has as many apparent problems as Max Power, to take control of the situation and ensure you don't get taken advantage of.