Ford Dealership Visits

[scottwood2]

 

Hi everyone.  Just thought I would share my experiences at a few local dealerships.  Found out that the advertised prices of under $20K for a cmax was only if you are A plan (employee or family of employee) and you also have to have a lease with some other company beside Ford.  

 

My best price was around $22K for basic options.  That is after rebates of $2500 but before taxes.   I also found out that they had great deals on the energy last month with over $8k in rebates.  Not an energy to be found here for sale.  That would have been a great deal and I might have taken that one had I known.

 

I do really like both the SE and the SEL.  The big touch screen is nice on the SEL but I don't like Leather seats and that is standard on the SEL.  I really liked the graphic showing the energy flow on the center screen.  Do others find they use this or is this something that you only use at first?  I think I can see similar usage on the left side of the gauges.  Does the connection to my phone have the same features with both trim levels?  I tried to stream something via my phone to the SE model and I could not get it to work.  Maybe it is just for phone use?  

 

I thought the radio sound was barely OK on the SE.   I did not try it on the SEL.  Is the sound quality the same?  

 

The climate controls are not my favorite.  Dual climate controls are nice and they are standard but I like the standard dial type.  Manual, but very easy to change and fast.  I can do it by feel and not have to look down to see if I pressed the same button enough.  Maybe using the voice system would help with this.  

 

I picked a model from stock for my SE test drive.  I played around with the gauges before I started driving.  When I went to set the clock it said "Low Battery" and the display shut down.  I could not get the car to drive after that but after trying a few things it started to work OK.  How does the 12v battery get charged up?  Is it only via the engine when it is running or does it charge from the large battery pack?  Where is the 12 v battery?  The salesman had no idea where it was.  

 

I like the car very much.  I am a little scared with the battery issues reported.  I think it is better now but seems to still to be there.  Not sure if this is what I saw on the test drive or not?  I also wonder about the whole package and wither the extra complexity is worth it?  The Prius has an awesome track record and the vote is still out on the Cmax.  I keep my cars a long time and this one is no different.

 

So waiting to see what happens with rebates and other deals.  I am also going to look at a Fit soon.  Totally different car.  Very basic, I think fun to drive and I can get a stick again which I like.   

[Kelleytoons]

I bought an SE with a package that included the large touch screen.  It handles streaming from my iPhone just great (that was indeed one of the things I bought it for), although I now find that I like the ability to play my music from a tiny (unnoticable) USB stick even better (for one thing I can use voice commands like "Play Album Rubber Soul" or "Play Playlist Jazz Singers").  In point of fact, the voice command response is so good I use it for a lot of things, including climate control ("Fan High", "Set Temp 74 degrees") and navigation "Find Address 5429 Disney Drive, Leesburg").  While some bemoan the MFT for it's touch (or lack of) I find it just great and far, FAR better than anything else out there (the Honda top of the line was a joke).

 

We also didn't want leather seats (which is why we went with the SE).  The audio is just fine -- perhaps it's because the car interior is so quiet but I like the sound much better than even my custom sound on our Durango (that I installed myself and still paid $$$ for).  Remember it depends on the source -- make sure you try it with a USB one to get best quality (bluetooth is about the next best, although FM HD is also very, very good).

 

The battery thing doesn't worry me.  Even if it's as high as, say, 5-10% the odds are still long that it will affect you, and there are things you can do (lemon law) to protect you if you are an unlucky one.  I have gotten a battery charger/jumper thing to put in the back just in case, though.  But that's just me -- if you talk with someone who's had the issue they will obviously have a far different opinion.

 

In my runup to getting this I drove six different cars for extended (some as long as a week) periods of time and no one was as fun AND economical to drive (the Prius was more economical, but much less fun, and others were fun but no where near as economical).  The only other car I might have considered would have been the Escape but, again, due to SYNC (which, if you are an IT guy or just like gadgets like I do, is a whole lot of fun).

[fordfan82]

We got an SE but with the winter package and MFT. The SEL was super nice but out of our budget. Sadly that is the game some dealerships play. They advertise a low lease price and that is if you have the A plan. Once you are there they figure you don't want to go some where else so you end up buying from them.

[scottwood2]

I bought an SE with a package that included the large touch screen.  It handles streaming from my iPhone just great (that was indeed one of the things I bought it for), although I now find that I like the ability to play my music from a tiny (unnoticable) USB stick even better (for one thing I can use voice commands like "Play Album Rubber Soul" or "Play Playlist Jazz Singers").  In point of fact, the voice command response is so good I use it for a lot of things, including climate control ("Fan High", "Set Temp 74 degrees") and navigation "Find Address 5429 Disney Drive, Leesburg").  While some bemoan the MFT for it's touch (or lack of) I find it just great and far, FAR better than anything else out there (the Honda top of the line was a joke).

 

We also didn't want leather seats (which is why we went with the SE).  The audio is just fine -- perhaps it's because the car interior is so quiet but I like the sound much better than even my custom sound on our Durango (that I installed myself and still paid $$$ for).  Remember it depends on the source -- make sure you try it with a USB one to get best quality (bluetooth is about the next best, although FM HD is also very, very good).

 

The battery thing doesn't worry me.  Even if it's as high as, say, 5-10% the odds are still long that it will affect you, and there are things you can do (lemon law) to protect you if you are an unlucky one.  I have gotten a battery charger/jumper thing to put in the back just in case, though.  But that's just me -- if you talk with someone who's had the issue they will obviously have a far different opinion.

 

In my runup to getting this I drove six different cars for extended (some as long as a week) periods of time and no one was as fun AND economical to drive (the Prius was more economical, but much less fun, and others were fun but no where near as economical).  The only other car I might have considered would have been the Escape but, again, due to SYNC (which, if you are an IT guy or just like gadgets like I do, is a whole lot of fun).

 I am a gadget guy and like tech.  I was just reading about tips on getting great MPG and some were using android apps to monitor RPM and fuel use.  I can see me doing that.  

 

So is this USB stick a bluetooth device?  I know that a lot of the cars seem to work with Apple much better than Android.  Having an external device like this is fine with me as well.  I have a bluetooth device that I use now in my cigarette lighter.  My plug is only powered when the car is on so when I get in my car I just hit the play button on the bluetooth device and it plays.  When I turn off the car it stops streaming because it lost the Bluetooth connection.   This device receives the bluetooth signal and transmits the audio via FM.  I do not have inputs so the FM transmitter works for me. 

 

I have drove 3 so far.  How did you drive these for an extended time?   Was it a rental or did the dealer let you take one?  I would love to have one for a week or even a weekend.  The more I find out about this car the more I like it.  

 

Thx for the reply

[scottwood2]

We got an SE but with the winter package and MFT. The SEL was super nice but out of our budget. Sadly that is the game some dealerships play. They advertise a low lease price and that is if you have the A plan. Once you are there they figure you don't want to go some where else so you end up buying from them.

I think this is what I am leaning towards now that I see I can get the MFT on a SE.   :)

 

The winter package would be nice here in Michigan.  

 

Thx for the reply

[Kelleytoons]

A USB stick is just a small drive -- sorry for the terminology mix up.  I have this one in the car (the 64gb size which holds all the music I ever want to hear there):

 

http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Cruzer-Low-Profile-Drive--SDCZ33-016G-B35/dp/B005FYNSZA/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1406973657&sr=8-8&keywords=usb+drive

 

I also stream from my iPhone via bluetooth and it connects terrifically -- sometimes it connects so fast I can be talking on the phone and it suddenly switched to the car before I've even had a chance to sit down.  As I said, the advantage with the USB media play is that you can use voice commands to select music unlike from bluetooth but if you are listening to some streaming stuff (like Pandora on my phone) then you don't need to do that anyway.

 

I didn't drive the C-Max extended -- what I drove were cars my neighbors had lent me as ours had died.  They were various mixes of things we were interested in and some (like the Prius) we could cross off the list right away (the Prius was a *horrible* car, although we didn't tell our friends that :>).  We only took the usual test drive of the C-Max but by that time I had a pretty good idea what I was looking for in a car.  The Escape was our first choice but our Ford salesman (who was terrific, by the way -- no pressure compared to all the other sales folk from other companies) said he considered the C-Max the hybrid version of it and I do think he's right (it's not an exact analogy but pretty close).  Compared to the Prius it has tremendous drivability and while the mileage isn't quite as good it's certainly a ton better than the Escape.  And I really do think Ford got SYNC right -- it's certainly not perfect, but compared to all the other tech in the other brands we looked at it's miles ahead (as I said, I really do love using the voice commands which work very well.  Even Siri can't do as well).

 

I think you just need to define what's important to you.  If you want a hybrid that will narrow it down and there aren't any hybrids out there that I know of that will handle like this one.  If gas mileage isn't that important your choices get wider.  For me the tech and gas mileage were the top two things I was interested in, all in a vehicle that was fun to drive.  C-Max is that car for me, but YMMV (literally and figuratively :>).

[hybridbear]

Hi everyone.  Just thought I would share my experiences at a few local dealerships.  Found out that the advertised prices of under $20K for a cmax was only if you are A plan (employee or family of employee) and you also have to have a lease with some other company beside Ford.  

That's dirty! Did you report that dealership? I would report them to Ford, your local BBB & leave a bad review on dealerrater.com. That practice is at the very least unethical & I believe it is illegal to advertise a price that most buyers will not qualify for.

 

 

I do really like both the SE and the SEL.  The big touch screen is nice on the SEL but I don't like Leather seats and that is standard on the SEL.  I really liked the graphic showing the energy flow on the center screen.  Do others find they use this or is this something that you only use at first?  I think I can see similar usage on the left side of the gauges.  Does the connection to my phone have the same features with both trim levels?  I tried to stream something via my phone to the SE model and I could not get it to work.  Maybe it is just for phone use? 

The Energy Flow graphic is very informative. It allows you to see how the car is operating. If you are comparing an SE without MFT to an SEL with MFT there will be differences. For example, with MFT the car can read your text messages to you when they arrive or display them on the screen if you're not moving. Some phones (I believe Android only) the car can even compose a reply for you. If you don't have MFT you cannot do this. Your voice commands for controlling the radio, climate, etc are very limited if you get an SE without MFT.

 

 

I thought the radio sound was barely OK on the SE.   I did not try it on the SEL.  Is the sound quality the same?

The SEL radio is Sony, the SE radio is unbranded. The SEL also has more speakers. Our Focus Electric has the Sony audio & our Fusion Hybrid has the unbranded system. I do not have a good ear for music so I don't notice a real difference in sound quality when listening to Bluetooth audio, a CD or an iPod. HD FM radio versus normal FM radio is a big improvement in sound quality with the SEL Sony radio versus the SE unbranded radio.

 

 

The climate controls are not my favorite.  Dual climate controls are nice and they are standard but I like the standard dial type.  Manual, but very easy to change and fast.  I can do it by feel and not have to look down to see if I pressed the same button enough.  Maybe using the voice system would help with this.  

You can control just about everything climate control related with voice commands if you have MFT. If you do not have MFT you only have the one set of climate buttons and there are zero voice commands for climate.

 

 

I picked a model from stock for my SE test drive.  I played around with the gauges before I started driving.  When I went to set the clock it said "Low Battery" and the display shut down.  I could not get the car to drive after that but after trying a few things it started to work OK.  How does the 12v battery get charged up?  Is it only via the engine when it is running or does it charge from the large battery pack?  Where is the 12 v battery?  The salesman had no idea where it was.  

 

I like the car very much.  I am a little scared with the battery issues reported.  I think it is better now but seems to still to be there.  Not sure if this is what I saw on the test drive or not?  I also wonder about the whole package and wither the extra complexity is worth it?  The Prius has an awesome track record and the vote is still out on the Cmax.  I keep my cars a long time and this one is no different.

The 12V battery is charged via a DCDC converter from the HVB anytime the car is in "Ready to drive" mode. The Energi models also charge the 12V battery while plugged in to the wall. There is no alternator, in fact, there are no belt-driven accessories. Everything is electric in the C-Max, and electricity is much more efficient. Likely you didn't have the car in "Ready to drive" mode when you were playing with the gauges so you were draining the 12V battery. Once it gets low the car goes into "Battery saver" mode to protect the 12V. If the 12V goes completely dead you won't be able to unlock the doors, etc since it powers the computers. If the 12V should somehow die while driving the car won't be affected since the 12V has nothing to do with starting the ICE. When the ICE needs to start the car uses power from the HVB to spin the ICE up to speed with the generator motor and then it starts injecting fuel into the cylinders once it is spinning at speed. If you use the Engage screen on the dash you can see this spike in EV power right as the ICE starts.

 

It seems that most owners who drive their cars every day for longer trips have no issues with low 12V battery SOC. Those who don't, like us, often need a battery maintainer to prolong the life of the 12V battery. It's a sad reality of many hybrids that the manufacturer fits a tiny 12V battery since it isn't used to crank the ICE but then that tiny battery cannot keep up with all the computers since the hybrid has more computers & tech running when the car is off compared to a conventional vehicle. If you drive a lot of short trips and few miles daily then the Energi is the best fit and it should never have low 12V battery issues.

 

The powertrain of these hybrids is actually quite simple. The eCVT design of combining two electric motors with the ICE through a planetary gear set is much, much simpler than an automatic transmission. Electric power steering, AC and a DCDC converter to charge the 12V battery is much simpler than having a belt driven power steering pump, AC compressor and alternator. Electric components like these are also much more efficient and reliable. You also don't have to worry about changing a belt ever and the electric water pump should be much more durable than a belt driven water pump.

[scottwood2]

That's dirty! Did you report that dealership? I would report them to Ford, your local BBB & leave a bad review on dealerrater.com. That practice is at the very least unethical & I believe it is illegal to advertise a price that most buyers will not qualify for.

 

 

The Energy Flow graphic is very informative. It allows you to see how the car is operating. If you are comparing an SE without MFT to an SEL with MFT there will be differences. For example, with MFT the car can read your text messages to you when they arrive or display them on the screen if you're not moving. Some phones (I believe Android only) the car can even compose a reply for you. If you don't have MFT you cannot do this. Your voice commands for controlling the radio, climate, etc are very limited if you get an SE without MFT.

 

 

The SEL radio is Sony, the SE radio is unbranded. The SEL also has more speakers. Our Focus Electric has the Sony audio & our Fusion Hybrid has the unbranded system. I do not have a good ear for music so I don't notice a real difference in sound quality when listening to Bluetooth audio, a CD or an iPod. HD FM radio versus normal FM radio is a big improvement in sound quality with the SEL Sony radio versus the SE unbranded radio.

 

 

You can control just about everything climate control related with voice commands if you have MFT. If you do not have MFT you only have the one set of climate buttons and there are zero voice commands for climate.

 

 

The 12V battery is charged via a DCDC converter from the HVB anytime the car is in "Ready to drive" mode. The Energi models also charge the 12V battery while plugged in to the wall. There is no alternator, in fact, there are no belt-driven accessories. Everything is electric in the C-Max, and electricity is much more efficient. Likely you didn't have the car in "Ready to drive" mode when you were playing with the gauges so you were draining the 12V battery. Once it gets low the car goes into "Battery saver" mode to protect the 12V. If the 12V goes completely dead you won't be able to unlock the doors, etc since it powers the computers. If the 12V should somehow die while driving the car won't be affected since the 12V has nothing to do with starting the ICE. When the ICE needs to start the car uses power from the HVB to spin the ICE up to speed with the generator motor and then it starts injecting fuel into the cylinders once it is spinning at speed. If you use the Engage screen on the dash you can see this spike in EV power right as the ICE starts.

 

It seems that most owners who drive their cars every day for longer trips have no issues with low 12V battery SOC. Those who don't, like us, often need a battery maintainer to prolong the life of the 12V battery. It's a sad reality of many hybrids that the manufacturer fits a tiny 12V battery since it isn't used to crank the ICE but then that tiny battery cannot keep up with all the computers since the hybrid has more computers & tech running when the car is off compared to a conventional vehicle. If you drive a lot of short trips and few miles daily then the Energi is the best fit and it should never have low 12V battery issues.

 

The powertrain of these hybrids is actually quite simple. The eCVT design of combining two electric motors with the ICE through a planetary gear set is much, much simpler than an automatic transmission. Electric power steering, AC and a DCDC converter to charge the 12V battery is much simpler than having a belt driven power steering pump, AC compressor and alternator. Electric components like these are also much more efficient and reliable. You also don't have to worry about changing a belt ever and the electric water pump should be much more durable than a belt driven water pump.

I tried to find look for "Ready to Drive" mode but could not find anything.  When is the car in "Ready to Drive" mode?  Is it based off of the gear shifter?  I wonder why Ford would not want to just charge the 12 V all the time and not just when in "Ready to Drive" mode?  

 

So I guess the heater is also electric?   I would think that would take a lot of power to do that.  I heard that winter driving FE goes way down.  I guess that is one of the main reasons?  It would be nice to get almost instant heat though and not have to wait for the ICE to heat up.  

 

Are the locks only power?  I would think that there has to be someway to get into the car with a dead battery?   I thought I saw a post that stated there was a special tool with the SEL and the key would work on the SE.  BTW where is the 12 v battery on this car?  

 

Thx for the reply.

[hybridbear]

I tried to find look for "Ready to Drive" mode but could not find anything.  When is the car in "Ready to Drive" mode?  Is it based off of the gear shifter?  I wonder why Ford would not want to just charge the 12 V all the time and not just when in "Ready to Drive" mode?  

 

So I guess the heater is also electric?   I would think that would take a lot of power to do that.  I heard that winter driving FE goes way down.  I guess that is one of the main reasons?  It would be nice to get almost instant heat though and not have to wait for the ICE to heat up.  

 

Are the locks only power?  I would think that there has to be someway to get into the car with a dead battery?   I thought I saw a post that stated there was a special tool with the SEL and the key would work on the SE.  BTW where is the 12 v battery on this car?  

 

Thx for the reply.

"Ready to drive" just means the car is on. There is a little green car symbol with arrows under it which indicates when the car is "Ready to drive". This is the same as any other car being "on".

 

The heater in the Energi is electric. The heater in the hybrid is a conventional heater core design. The electric heater in the Energi uses a resistance heater to heat the coolant. Electric heaters are not very efficient. Heating is one thing that ICE cars do well since an ICE very effectively turns gasoline into heat. Heat suffers in any hybrid because of how much time the ICE is off. You can help this by using the Engine Block Heater & grille covers along with maximizing your use of heated seats & minimizing your use of HVAC.

 

Winter efficiency drops because of many reasons but a couple of big ones are:

• increased rolling resistance due to stiffer rubber in tires, snow/ice on road, lower tire pressure due to colder air temps, etc
• increased aerodynamic drag since cold air is more dense than warm air

All C-Maxes come with a key and there is a way to use the key on the driver's door if the 12V battery is dead. If the car does not recognize the key the SEL can be started by putting the key in a special spot & then pushing the start button.

Edited August 3, 2014 by hybridbear

[drdiesel1]

^^^^^^^^^ The Energi only uses the heating element when in EV. The system has a coolant bypass loop to

avoid heating the entire coolant system. When the ICE is running the loop opens and the element is turned off

to allow the ICE heated coolant to enter the heater core.

[scottwood2]

So this sounds like it works very much like the Prius where if you need heat the ICE is running unless you have the Energi.  Does the ICE also run in cold weather to warm up the motor even if there is no call for heat? I think this is true of the Prius. 

 

Thx for the replies

[drdiesel1]

So this sounds like it works very much like the Prius where if you need heat the ICE is running unless you have the Energi.  Does the ICE also run in cold weather to warm up the motor even if there is no call for heat? I think this is true of the Prius. 

 

Thx for the replies

No. The ICE will not run while you have EV battery power.

The heater uses EV battery to operate the A/C compressor and the heating(ICE/ECT cold) element.

Regardless of HVAC use, the ICE will come on after the EV battery has been depleted the same as all hybrids.

The heating element will not be used to provide heat after the ICE is turned on.

It will use the engines heat the same as any ICE vehicle.

Edited August 4, 2014 by drdiesel1

[scottwood2]

So there

 

No. The ICE will not run while you have EV battery power.

The heater uses EV battery to operate the A/C compressor and the heating(ICE/ECT cold) element.

Regardless of HVAC use, the ICE will come on after the EV battery has been depleted the same as all hybrids.

The heating element will not be used to provide heat after the ICE is turned on.

It will use the engines heat the same as any ICE vehicle.

So there is a heating element as well as the standard heater core system??  I thought only the Energi had that? 

 

Thx

[jdbob]

So there

 

So there is a heating element as well as the standard heater core system??  I thought only the Energi had that? 

 

Thx

 

drdiesel1 was describing the Energi. The Hybrid doesn't have the heating element so the only source of heat is the ICE.

[DaveofDurham]

drdiesel1 was describing the Energi. The Hybrid doesn't have the heating element so the only source of heat is the ICE.

 

My impression with the hybrid is that when you have the heat on the car will still go into EV mode (no ICE) and the ICE will come back on when either 1) the ICE is needed to keep the car moving OR 2) the ICE is needed to heat the coolant to keep providing heat.

[fbov]

drdiesel1 was describing the Energi. The Hybrid doesn't have the heating element so the only source of heat is the ICE.

+1

 

My impression with the hybrid is that when you have the heat on the car will still go into EV mode (no ICE) and the ICE will come back on when either 1) the ICE is needed to keep the car moving OR 2) the ICE is needed to heat the coolant to keep providing heat.

There's an "efficiency/power distribution" display on the dash (car outline with power channels) which will tell you why the ICE is running, due to:

- acceleration

- heater setting

- normal operation.

 

Sadly, they work in that order... If you back off the gas, it keeps running to keep you warm. If you turn off the environmental controls, it tells you it's normal operation. It's maddening to be driving down a hill with a full battery, and the !@#$%^& ICE won't stop! It's a 2-stage thing from cold start, too... just because it let you into EV once, there's no guarantee it will the next time! All driven by coolant temperature, which you can access (via unmarked gauge) in "My View" if you've gotten that far into dash displays...

 

And regardless if you're a new owner or still shopping, ETIS is your friend. Enter the VIN of your car, or prospect, in the Vehicles tab and then select the  "minor features" list at the lower right. Anyone north of Florida would benefit from an "immersion heater" but my Ohio-purchased car lists "less immersion heater" and my winter mileage reflects it. pjones in Atlanta has looked into retrofits, and retrofitting Ford's solution is $$$ compared with an oil pan heater, with commensurate improvement in effect (warm oil does not a warm engine make)

 

Welcome, and have fun,

Frank

[mlsstl]

I know this thread has sat quietly for the last 9 months, but the title seemed like a good place to recount my experiences this week. 

 

We've started shopping for what is going to replace our Mini Clubman and the C-Max is back in play. However, as the primary driver of the Mini, my wife has a much larger say in how this goes. 

 

The interesting part is last weekend I stopped by a Ford dealer -- the 2nd closest to my house -- and was told there were no C-Maxes in stock. That evening, when I checked their web site, it said they had three in inventory. In a subsequent phone call they assured me they had plenty for me to look at -- things changed quickly when they found they had screwed-up with an on-site customer visit. 

 

Then, yesterday afternoon, I finished a work appointment early and stopped by the Ford dealer closest to my house on the way home. They said they had none (though I did peruse the Escapes), but, again last evening, they showed a red C-Max as being in stock. (My experience in buying a car last fall indicated that dealers were very good about keeping their web sites very current as respects inventory.) The story was "they can't keep them in stock" even though that red C-Max SE has been in their inventory for months now. Weird, but I guess that is how car salesmen get and keep their reputations. 

 

So, the saga continues in a similar vein to my prior experience -- just not much C-Max enthusiasm or awareness from the dealers.

[stevedebi]

I know this thread has sat quietly for the last 9 months, but the title seemed like a good place to recount my experiences this week. 

 

We've started shopping for what is going to replace our Mini Clubman and the C-Max is back in play. However, as the primary driver of the Mini, my wife has a much larger say in how this goes. 

 

The interesting part is last weekend I stopped by a Ford dealer -- the 2nd closest to my house -- and was told there were no C-Maxes in stock. That evening, when I checked their web site, it said they had three in inventory. In a subsequent phone call they assured me they had plenty for me to look at -- things changed quickly when they found they had screwed-up with an on-site customer visit. 

 

Then, yesterday afternoon, I finished a work appointment early and stopped by the Ford dealer closest to my house on the way home. They said they had none (though I did peruse the Escapes), but, again last evening, they showed a red C-Max as being in stock. (My experience in buying a car last fall indicated that dealers were very good about keeping their web sites very current as respects inventory.) The story was "they can't keep them in stock" even though that red C-Max SE has been in their inventory for months now. Weird, but I guess that is how car salesmen get and keep their reputations. 

 

So, the saga continues in a similar vein to my prior experience -- just not much C-Max enthusiasm or awareness from the dealers.

The "In Stock" listings at most dealer sites include cars ordered by Ford but not yet delivered. I don't know if they are en route, or just ordered. But it doesn't mean on the lot.

[mlsstl]

"En route" did not apply in either situation noted above. The first dealer later assured me on the phone the three cars were all on their lot and they were quite embarrassed that one of their salesmen didn't know their inventory. At the second lot, I've seen the red C-Max on their lot for months as I've driven by -- I think one of the salesmen was driving it on his day off Thursday.

 

My whole point is that many Ford dealers just don't seem very prepared to sell this particular car.