Dead Battery for the fifth time

[wab]

Maxy if you don't want to have 12v batt. problems just connect a 12v Batt. Charger every nite set on low amp charge,only takes about a minute to do, problem solved. Then the only time you're going to have a dead 12v batt. is when it fails or when you are away from home for a extended period of time and jumper battery will solve those problems. Only down side to this is that the real problem isn't being solved. I guess you could update the CMAX every-time FORD comes up with a new solution. I'm charging up my jumper battery as I write this so I'm ready if I need it. I have had a few incidents where other people needed a jump and I didn't have it with me. :)

 

Paul

 

Possibly a better Band-Aid  fix would be a battery maintainer.

The battery clips stay on the car (no opening of the hood or hatch every night) the maintainer stays on your work bench.

Supper easy install and supper easy hook-up every night.

20$ on Amazon, search "12V Battery Charger/Maintainer"

 

[ptjones]

Paul.

That is what I do every week. I do it because of desperation, and not from a joy of owning trouble free brand new car.

In my mind this is not how new car experience should be, and I do not recall it been that bad with my other new car purchases. 

Maxy, good luck with your buy back. Please keep us informed on how this process going.

dmk2000 It seems to me you are over stating the issue, when it happens once every 2-6months and can be easily solved in about five minutes with jumper battery. Most New Cars have minor issue that sometimes aren't even worth bothering the dealer about. I think the FORD Dealer should be notified every time you have a dead battery because that is the only way they will know if they have solved your issue or not. :)

 

 

Possibly a better Band-Aid  fix would be a battery maintainer.

The battery clips stay on the car (no opening of the hood or hatch every night) the maintainer stays on your work bench.

Supper easy install and supper easy hook-up every night.

20$ on Amazon, search "12V Battery Charger/Maintainer"

I think we have talked about this before and there was a concern that the drain on the battery could be more than a battery tender could put out, but it could make the 12v battery last longer which might be good enough. :)

 

Paul

[Maxy]

Just got a call from the service department. They found dead battery, replaced it. Monitored it it for the two days and found no other problems, ready to pick up. Second battery replacement in 4 month, obviously something is a miss.....

[Adrian_L]

My wife just went out to find our 2013 C-Max Hybrid dead again at 11:00 PM.  This is the third time it has happened at her work.  It happened twice at home and once in Seattle.  The dealer says Ford hopes to have a solution soon.  The dealer has tried all the suggested tech bulletans.  The Seattle Ford dealer had nothing diffferent than our Portland Dealer.

 

The Seattle  tow truck driver says he does several a day and the State of Washington is talking about returning their C-Max cars.

 

We are considering the Lemon Law.  We don't want to wait for this car to have the value of the Pinto.  I have been a loyal ford fan and have owned any fords but enoughh is enough

 

Has anyone had this problem and was it resolved?

 

Does anyone know someone we can contact at Ford?

 

The Seattle tow truck driver says he jump starts several C-maxes per day?!   I find that very, very hard to believe.

 

Last month, when I took my C-max in for its first service in Vancouver, BC's largest Ford dealership, none of the service guys had heard of any C-maxes having any battery problems.

[Maxy]

The Seattle tow truck driver says he jump starts several C-maxes per day?!   I find that very, very hard to believe.

 

Last month, when I took my C-max in for its first service in Vancouver, BC's largest Ford dealership, none of the service guys had heard of any C-maxes having any battery problems.

 

It is not in their best interest to admit it.

[ptjones]

It is not in their best interest to admit it.

I find most FORD Dealer service writers pretty forthcoming about problems when I talk to them. They don't work for FORD and they want to help their customers as much as they can, it's in their best interest to create good will with their customers. :)

 

Paul

[Adrian_L]

Agreed.  They genuinely seemed surprised and asked me a few questions.  Dead battery?  When?  From a parasitic drain?  etc. etc.

[jomebrew]

I am still waiting for the tow truck to haul my 2013 C-MAX SE to the dealer, so I am cross posting on this thread too :)  I have had the problem ever few months for over a year.  It started about 7 or 8 months after I got the car.  The first couple time I assumed it was something I did.  It became clear it is some defect with the electronics.  

 

--- 

 

 

My battery has died 6 or 7 times now.  Today is another gem of a day.  Last time, the dealer had the car a few days but never found anything.  Told me to call next time it happened so they can investigate immediately.  They boasted how advanced the car electronics are and every event that could possibly happen is logged but for some reason, the power drain and slow death s not logged.

 

I only live 30 seconds from the dealer and they could actually pop right over and poke around my dead car but they haven't gotten around to calling back.  They actually wanted to do that  and asked me to not jump it when it happened again.  A couple months go by and they lost interest.

 

Past observations:

 

- The electronics kept running.  I assumed it would shut off.  battery eventually died.

- Car automatically rolled the windows down (in the rain of course) and batter eventually died.  Happened twice.  Once I caught it.

- Automatic headlights never shut off. ( i heard the sound but didn't realize it was the lights on sound because they were on automatic).  battery died.

- Accidentally hit the emergence alarm on the remote.  Then hit lock and shut off the alarm.  battery was dead when it was time to drive home.

- Other times, no apparent event preceding the dead battery

[ptjones]

jamebrew "- Accidentally hit the emergence alarm on the remote.  Then hit lock and shut off the alarm.  battery was dead when it was time to drive home."  I didn't know there was an emergency alarm on the remote. :)

 

Paul

[jomebrew]

Well, my wallet did it!

 

So, had my car towed dead to the dealer ot look it it in the dead state.  The factory trained service technician asked me if I left the keys in the ignition with it on all night.  I asked "Why would I do that then call the service department, wait a couple hours for a tow truck then wait even longer, walk to the dealer and be 5 hours late for work?".  I really wished he had said, he sees an odd code that looks like the car was left with the keys in the ignition and left on until the battery drained.  But he just waled away while I described each of the other events and the times I just jump it and got to work or home.  Instead, I think he treats me like an idiot. 

[ptjones]

Well, my wallet did it!

 

So, had my car towed dead to the dealer ot look it it in the dead state.  The factory trained service technician asked me if I left the keys in the ignition with it on all night.  I asked "Why would I do that then call the service department, wait a couple hours for a tow truck then wait even longer, walk to the dealer and be 5 hours late for work?".  I really wished he had said, he sees an odd code that looks like the car was left with the keys in the ignition and left on until the battery drained.  But he just waled away while I described each of the other events and the times I just jump it and got to work or home.  Instead, I think he treats me like an idiot. 

Apparently he has had customers that have left the keys in the car so he is trying to cover all the bases. I think this is a common problem and the easiest to fix from their perspective. I would also think he was trying to get as much info to figure out the next step. IMO Thank goodness for jumper battery's in the mean time. :)

 

Paul

[FordService]

Just got a call from the service department. They found dead battery, replaced it. Monitored it it for the two days and found no other problems, ready to pick up. Second battery replacement in 4 month, obviously something is a miss.....

Keep me posted on how your battery is doing, Maxy.

 

I am still waiting for the tow truck to haul my 2013 C-MAX SE to the dealer, so I am cross posting on this thread too :)  I have had the problem ever few months for over a year.  It started about 7 or 8 months after I got the car.  The first couple time I assumed it was something I did.  It became clear it is some defect with the electronics.  ...

Your vehicle is currently at the dealer, jomebrew? Please send me a PM with your best contact number, VIN, current mileage, and dealer info; I'll see how I can help.

 

Rachel

[The Jeaner]

Our 2013 C-Max has had dead battery problems, too. Today we went to our Ford Dealership and learned about Customer Satisfaction Program 13B12. A CSP is not the same as a recall, and it as an expiration date, in this case December 30, 2014.

 

The issue that this CSP addresses is described as "On your vehicle, under certain conditions, an electronic module fails to transition to "sleep" state. Instead, the module status stays in "awake" mode and keeps other vehicle modules in "awake" mode. This can significantly increase the current drain on the battery, cause the 12-volt battery to discharge, and may prevent the engine from starting." It goes on to say that the Ford dealer will reprogram the Multifunction Display Computer to correct the battery discharge condition, and will check the condition of the 12 V battery, replacing if necessary.

[ptjones]

Our 2013 C-Max has had dead battery problems, too. Today we went to our Ford Dealership and learned about Customer Satisfaction Program 13B12. A CSP is not the same as a recall, and it as an expiration date, in this case December 30, 2014.

 

The issue that this CSP addresses is described as "On your vehicle, under certain conditions, an electronic module fails to transition to "sleep" state. Instead, the module status stays in "awake" mode and keeps other vehicle modules in "awake" mode. This can significantly increase the current drain on the battery, cause the 12-volt battery to discharge, and may prevent the engine from starting." It goes on to say that the Ford dealer will reprogram the Multifunction Display Computer to correct the battery discharge condition, and will check the condition of the 12 V battery, replacing if necessary.

Let us know how it works out. I hope you have a jumper battery in the mean time. :)

 

Paul

[stevedebi]

Our 2013 C-Max has had dead battery problems, too. Today we went to our Ford Dealership and learned about Customer Satisfaction Program 13B12. A CSP is not the same as a recall, and it as an expiration date, in this case December 30, 2014.

 

The issue that this CSP addresses is described as "On your vehicle, under certain conditions, an electronic module fails to transition to "sleep" state. Instead, the module status stays in "awake" mode and keeps other vehicle modules in "awake" mode. This can significantly increase the current drain on the battery, cause the 12-volt battery to discharge, and may prevent the engine from starting." It goes on to say that the Ford dealer will reprogram the Multifunction Display Computer to correct the battery discharge condition, and will check the condition of the 12 V battery, replacing if necessary.

I'm wondering if that MDC flash will remove MPGe from your car displays. I'm sure you would prefer losing that to having dead batteries!

[kaptnk228]

We recently bought a 2013 Ford C-Max.  The day after the navigation system was fixed, I found our loved C-Max in the driveway dead.  I tried starting it with our boat battery but it would not continue to run.

 

I charged the battery until my charger showed 75% and tried to drive it to the dealer 15 mins away.  IT DIED ABOUT 8-10 MINS LATER.  60 seconds before it died on the road, the battery light came on.  THE BATTERY WAS COMPLETELY DEAD.

 

As an Engineer this is what I believe happened.

 

A 12 Volt battery is not 12 Volts but rather it is 12.8 Volts when fully charged and the charging system normally floats 13.5 Volts on the battery.  There is no alternator and the system simply uses a transformer type of system to lower the Li Ion battery voltage to the desired DC voltage.

 

PERHAPS THE PROGRAMMER PROGRAMMED THE LOW BATTERY LIGHT TO COME ON AT 12 VOLTS LIKE IT DID IN OUR CASE.  IT SHOULD COME ON AT 12.8 VOLTS TO WARN  OF A FAILED CHARGING COMPONENT.  

 

SMALL PROBLEMS IN AIR PLANES HAVE COST 10,000'S OF PEOPLE THEIR LIVES.

 

WE GOT NO WARNING OF THE  FAILURE OF THE CHARGING SYSTEM OR BATTERY UNTIL JUST BEFORE THE CAR DIED.  IN THE PAST WE WOULD GET AN ALTERNATOR LIGHT TO COME ON as soon as the charging system failed.  I know that there is a battery light NOW simply fix the problem with a simple program update ASAP.

 

WHEN ONE DESIGN'S NEW CONCEPTS SOME OF THE OLD IDEAS MUST BE RE-EVALUATED.  THE CHARGER COMPONENT IMHO MUST BE RE-DESIGNED TO BE MULTI-COMPONENT.  THAT IS TO SAY FOR EXAMPLE, HAVE 3 OR 4 PARALLEL SYSTEMS WITH INDIVIDUAL WARNING LIGHTS.  WHEN ONE SYSTEM FAILS, WE WOULD BE NOTIFIED THAT WE MUST MONITOR THE OTHER TWO.  WHEN 2 FAIL IT IS TIME TO REPLACE THAT MODULE.

 

IN THE C-MAX ALL OF YOUR STEERING, BREAKING FLASHERS QUIT WHEN YOU LOSE THE 12 VOLT SYSTEM.  THIS CAN NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN.

 

Summary: 26 October 2014

 

1. Immediately fix the warning system of a fault with the 12 volt battery system.

2. Re-design the step down charger to be fault tolerant, ie build at least 3 if not 4 step down devices in parallel so if one or two fail, we will live and can go to dealer to get it replaced.  As it is taking over 5 days to get spare parts, this is a good idea.  Also design the system to last longer 

3.0 RE-DESIGN THE SYSTEM ONCE STARTED TO BE ABLE TO RUN WITHOUT THE 12 VOLT BATTERY UNTIL YOU TURN THE CAR OFF.  THIS WILL PREVENT THE MORE SERIOUS CONDITION OF A DEAD CAR AT SPEED LIKE WHAT OCCURRED TO US.

4.0 ALL OWNERS OF THE C-MAX MUST WRITE FORD AND PERHAPS SOME GOVERNMENT SAFETY BRANCH TO LOOK INTO THIS.

5.0 FORD SHOULD ADD ONE OF THEIR GREAT LOOKING PANELS ON THE LEFT SIDE TO MONITOR BATTERY VOLTAGE IE 13.5 VOLTS AND ALSO SHOW ENGINE COOLANT TEMPERATURE WHICH IS ALSO MISSING.

 

This is a relatively small problem with HUGE CONSEQUENCES.  IF THIS HAPPENS AT 70 MPH AND YOU DON'T HAVE ANY POWER BRAKES, OR STEERING OH MY GOD!!!!

 

Retired Professional Engineer 26 October 2014

 

WHAT TO DO UNTIL FORD FIXES THIS PROBLEM?

 

BUY A VOLTAGE METER AND A SMALL ADAPTER TO USE THE CIGARETTE LIGHTER POWER SUPPLY TO MONITOR THE SYSTEM.  YOU SHOULD THEN SEE THAT THE CHARGING SYSTEM IS WORKING.  A NORMAL CAR BATTERY FULLY CHARGED IS ABOUT 12.8+ VOLTS.  A DEAD 12 VOLT BATTERY OCCURS AT ABOUT 12 VOLTS LIKE IT DID IN OUR CASE.

 

The C-Max looks like a great car that just needs a few very important but small changes.

 

Retired Mechanical Engineer who works on his car for the past 48 years.

[kaptnk228]

Daniel, welcome aboard.  What model do you have? If SE, do you have My Ford Touch large display upgrade? Have you had the software upgrades for dead batteries?  How did you get it started?  Many carry / have a rechargeable jump start or jumper cables.

 

The dead battery issue seems to be an issue with some C-Maxes.  I doubt the same issue carries over to the Transit.  But I understand how any model specific issue affects brand loyalty and the likelihood of buying that brand again.   

What upgrade.  We had all upgrades done on Last Thursday and I haven't yet seen any battery monitoring or coolant monitoring system display.  Here is my case:

 

We recently bought a 2013 Ford C-Max.  The day after the navigation system was fixed, I found our loved C-Max in the driveway dead.  I tried starting it with our boat battery but it would not continue to run.

 

I charged the battery until my charger showed 75% and tried to drive it to the dealer 15 mins away.  IT DIED ABOUT 8-10 MINS LATER.  60 seconds before it died on the road, the battery light came on.  THE BATTERY WAS COMPLETELY DEAD.

 

As an Engineer this is what I believe happened.

 

A 12 Volt battery is not 12 Volts but rather it is 12.8 Volts when fully charged and the charging system normally floats 13.5 Volts on the battery.  There is no alternator and the system simply uses a transformer type of system to lower the Li Ion battery voltage to the desired DC voltage.

 

PERHAPS THE PROGRAMMER PROGRAMMED THE LOW BATTERY LIGHT TO COME ON AT 12 VOLTS LIKE IT DID IN OUR CASE.  IT SHOULD COME ON AT 12.8 VOLTS TO WARN  OF A FAILED CHARGING COMPONENT.  

 

SMALL PROBLEMS IN AIR PLANES HAVE COST 10,000'S OF PEOPLE THEIR LIVES.

 

WE GOT NO WARNING OF THE  FAILURE OF THE CHARGING SYSTEM OR BATTERY UNTIL JUST BEFORE THE CAR DIED.  IN THE PAST WE WOULD GET AN ALTERNATOR LIGHT TO COME ON as soon as the charging system failed.  I know that there is a battery light NOW simply fix the problem with a simple program update ASAP.

 

WHEN ONE DESIGN'S NEW CONCEPTS SOME OF THE OLD IDEAS MUST BE RE-EVALUATED.  THE CHARGER COMPONENT IMHO MUST BE RE-DESIGNED TO BE MULTI-COMPONENT.  THAT IS TO SAY FOR EXAMPLE, HAVE 3 OR 4 PARALLEL SYSTEMS WITH INDIVIDUAL WARNING LIGHTS.  WHEN ONE SYSTEM FAILS, WE WOULD BE NOTIFIED THAT WE MUST MONITOR THE OTHER TWO.  WHEN 2 FAIL IT IS TIME TO REPLACE THAT MODULE.

 

IN THE C-MAX ALL OF YOUR STEERING, BREAKING FLASHERS QUIT WHEN YOU LOSE THE 12 VOLT SYSTEM.  THIS CAN NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN.

 

Summary: 26 October 2014

 

1. Immediately fix the warning system of a fault with the 12 volt battery system.

2. Re-design the step down charger to be fault tolerant, ie build at least 3 if not 4 step down devices in parallel so if one or two fail, we will live and can go to dealer to get it replaced.  As it is taking over 5 days to get spare parts, this is a good idea.  Also design the system to last longer 

3.0 RE-DESIGN THE SYSTEM ONCE STARTED TO BE ABLE TO RUN WITHOUT THE 12 VOLT BATTERY UNTIL YOU TURN THE CAR OFF.  THIS WILL PREVENT THE MORE SERIOUS CONDITION OF A DEAD CAR AT SPEED LIKE WHAT OCCURRED TO US.

4.0 ALL OWNERS OF THE C-MAX MUST WRITE FORD AND PERHAPS SOME GOVERNMENT SAFETY BRANCH TO LOOK INTO THIS.

5.0 FORD SHOULD ADD ONE OF THEIR GREAT LOOKING PANELS ON THE LEFT SIDE TO MONITOR BATTERY VOLTAGE IE 13.5 VOLTS AND ALSO SHOW ENGINE COOLANT TEMPERATURE WHICH IS ALSO MISSING.

 

This is a relatively small problem with HUGE CONSEQUENCES.  IF THIS HAPPENS AT 70 MPH AND YOU DON'T HAVE ANY POWER BRAKES, OR STEERING OH MY GOD!!!!

 

Retired Professional Engineer 26 October 2014

 

WHAT TO DO UNTIL FORD FIXES THIS PROBLEM?

 

BUY A VOLTAGE METER AND A SMALL ADAPTER TO USE THE CIGARETTE LIGHTER POWER SUPPLY TO MONITOR THE SYSTEM.  YOU SHOULD THEN SEE THAT THE CHARGING SYSTEM IS WORKING.  A NORMAL CAR BATTERY FULLY CHARGED IS ABOUT 12.8+ VOLTS.  A DEAD 12 VOLT BATTERY OCCURS AT ABOUT 12 VOLTS LIKE IT DID IN OUR CASE.

 

The C-Max looks like a great car that just needs a few very important but small changes.

 

Retired Mechanical Engineer who works on his car for the past 48 years.

[homestead]

I charged the battery until my charger showed 75% and tried to drive it to the dealer 15 mins away.  IT DIED ABOUT 8-10 MINS LATER.  60 seconds before it died on the road, the battery light came on.  THE BATTERY WAS COMPLETELY DEAD.

You may have had a heavy load rapidly draining the battery rather than a charging problem.

[ptjones]

I'm wondering if that isn't a grounding problem like corrosion on the battery cable connection. It could be a bad cell in the 12v battery. It will be interesting  to see what the FORD Dealer comes up with.I would think they would replace the 12v. IMO :)

 

Paul

[dolciek]

Got my 2013 exactly 2 years ago today. In the last year the battery has died 6 times. This last time it died while I was at work, so it was sitting for 8 hours. It's also now had attempted repairs 4 times. I am not confident Ford actually knows what the problem is. Last winter the solution was to re-program. Now it's to apply tape to prevent chaffing and ask the consumer to unplug all charging cords (not just devices). I find it hard to believe a USB left plugged in would drain my battery in 8 hours.

 

It now qualifies for my states Lemon Law. Going to send Ford a replacement request. Love the car. Hate that it's been to the dealer 8 times in 2 years for problems.

[Kelleytoons]

Sorry to hear about your issues and hope you get some satisfaction through the state system.

 

Yes, a USB plugged in should NOT drain your battery, even if it was charging (way too low a load).  And I have several USB devices plugged in all the time and even when we haven't driven Maximis a few days there is no problem.

[ptjones]

Got my 2013 exactly 2 years ago today. In the last year the battery has died 6 times. This last time it died while I was at work, so it was sitting for 8 hours. It's also now had attempted repairs 4 times. I am not confident Ford actually knows what the problem is. Last winter the solution was to re-program. Now it's to apply tape to prevent chaffing and ask the consumer to unplug all charging cords (not just devices). I find it hard to believe a USB left plugged in would drain my battery in 8 hours.

 

It now qualifies for my states Lemon Law. Going to send Ford a replacement request. Love the car. Hate that it's been to the dealer 8 times in 2 years for problems.

I still think adding another battery would solve the problem for the most part and it is a simple solution. :)

 

Paul

[joe]

I just found this presentation about portable jump start systems on CNET. http://www.cnet.com/products/bolt-power-d28-portable-car-jump-starter/

[Katrina Ferland]

My first dead battery happened today at home, I worry about it happening after work. Will call dealer first thing in AM. This may seem far-fetched, what if it has something to do with time change & system updates?

[ptjones]

My first dead battery happened today at home, I worry about it happening after work. Will call dealer first thing in AM. This may seem far-fetched, what if it has something to do with time change & system updates?

I don't think so or you would have heard about it from other people. What model do you have, SE or SEL and do you have a jumper battery? When was it built?  My SYNC system did do a system maintenance today which I was surprised to see. :)

 

Paul