C-Max Failed Emissions Test for Inspection Sticker

[drdiesel1]

http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/diagnostics/pdf/OBDSM1402_HEV.pdf for the PODCx stuff, that's free.

 

B10AF:19 - Blower Fan Relay: Circuit Current Above Threshold - that's from the online service manual, which isn't free.

Thanks! I see the other was a PDF on the hybrid system and it was free. Just imagine trying to read that

HVAC DTC with a generic tool, if you can't even find it. It's my point. Those code readers are blind

to these systems and people who use them think they have no DTC's stored, but the light is still on.

 

I see this a lot on vehicles that come into the shop. The owner says the MIL is on, but there are

no codes stored. I use the factory tool and pull up 5 codes and they're surprised. Happens a lot ;)

Edited January 9, 2015 by drdiesel1

[plus 3 golfer]

Unfortunately this is incorrect information.  It's completely false and you shouldn't

make such erroneous and misleading statements making others think it's possible.

 

I can assure you and everyone else, it's NOT POSSIBLE with cheap code readers.

Maybe I wasn't clear. OBDII compliant code readers will read codes that cause the Check Engine Light to illuminate which is what the discussion / my post is about.  That's a requirement of an OBDII reader.  If it can't read the those codes then it's not an OBDII reader.  The discussion is not about reading modules and proprietary codes that do not set the Check Engine Light. One does not need a Ford VCM with the latest IDS to read codes that illuminate the check engine light.  

[plus 3 golfer]

Here's a little test for the code readers. What are these DTC's related to ?

Can you find any info on these. I know they can't read them, but, I just thought

I would see how much info anyone can find without paying for it.

 

These are Ford C-Max proprietary DTC's.

 

Click to view:

Untitled-2.jpg

Please find a code that illuminates the check engine light that an OBDII code reader can't read.   We know there are many proprietary codes that an OBDII reader can't read.  But that's not what this thread, JulieB and my post are about. ;)  It's about failing emissions.

[drdiesel1]

Please find a code that illuminates the check engine light that an OBDII code reader can't read.   We know there are many proprietary codes that an OBDII reader can't read.  But that's not what this thread, JulieB and my post are about. ;)  It's about failing emissions.

It's about wasting money to buy a useless code reader :drop:  and they won't read all the DTC's that can trigger

the MIL to come on. You're uniformed.................. :spend:

[plus 3 golfer]

It's about wasting money to buy a useless code reader :drop:  and they won't read all the DTC's that can trigger

the MIL to come on. You're uniformed..................

Have you read the Federal Register on the requirements of OBD?  This is what Ford says:  "The MIL notifies the driver the PCM has detected an on board diagnostic (OBD) emission related component or system concern. When this occurs, an OBD DTC sets."  

 

All such OBD DTC must be able to be read by Non-Proprietary OBDII readers (EPA requirement). There may be other codes that may further define issues but only emission related component or systems will trigger the MIL.  Can it be any clearer than that. 

 

There are likely very old code readers (prior to OBDII) that only read the original OBD codes but since mid to late 2000s all readers that I'm familiar with will also read the enhanced OBDII codes (I believe those are P0 and P1 codes). 

 

In any event, I'm still waiting for a code that is not emission related that triggers the MIL ;)  :) .  

[jdbob]

In any event, I'm still waiting for a code that is not emission related that triggers the MIL ;)  :) .  

 

Sounds like a good way to get into a semantics war  :rant2:

 

Here are some DTC's related to the two potentiometers on the accelerator pedal:

 

P0122, P0123 – TP A circuit continuity (MIL, wrench light)

P0222, P0223 – TP B circuit continuity (MIL, wrench light)

P2135 – TP A / TP B correlation (non-MIL, wrench light)

 

All 3 light up the wrench light, but only 2 light up the MIL. Makes no sense to me :headscratch:

[Adrian_L]

It's about wasting money to buy a useless code reader :drop:  and they won't read all the DTC's that can trigger

the MIL to come on. You're uniformed.................. :spend:

 

Might I suggest that if you're going to insult someone, take the time to spell the word correctly.  "uninformed".

 

I sure hope you are more polite to your customers than you are to us know-nothings you share the forum with.

[plus 3 golfer]

Sounds like a good way to get into a semantics war   :rant2:

 

Here are some DTC's related to the two potentiometers on the accelerator pedal:

 

P0122, P0123 – TP A circuit continuity (MIL, wrench light)

P0222, P0223 – TP B circuit continuity (MIL, wrench light)

P2135 – TP A / TP B correlation (non-MIL, wrench light)

 

All 3 light up the wrench light, but only 2 light up the MIL. Makes no sense to me  :headscratch:

 

We're not trying to make sense out of it or play with semantics.   Systems and components that affect emissions (including continuity of circuits if appropriate) set the MIL and OBDII compliant code readers will read P0 and P1 codes and a lot all P codes and other control modules.  If JulieB failed emissions (excluding trying to reset the readiness bits by driving the car), there will be a DTC code stored.

 

When the MIL comes on, there will always be a OBDII DTC.  Again we are not trying to determine whether we believe some codes should set the MIL and others should not.   Remember this discussion is about failing emissions.  The EPA wants to make sure that issues that can affect vehicle emissions get fixed.  States are responsible for implementation of the emissions testing pursuant to the EPA rules and regulations. States and areas within states may have different or no emissions testing.

 

In essence, there won't be a code that triggers the MIL that is not by definition "emissions related."   It's the regulations.  I've seen similar stuff (lack of knowledge on the regs, misunderstanding what is being said) on  EPA emissions certification of vehicles and their EPA fuel economy rating.

 

Edited January 21, 2015 by Plus 3 Golfer

[drdiesel1]

We're not trying to make sense out of it or play with semantics.   Systems and components that affect emissions (including continuity of circuits if appropriate) set the MIL and OBDII compliant code readers will read P0 and P1 codes and a lot all P codes and other control modules.  If JulieB failed emissions (excluding trying to reset the readiness bits by driving the car), there will be a DTC code stored.

 

When the MIL comes on, there will always be a OBDII DTC.  Again we are not trying to determine whether we believe some codes should set the MIL and others should not.   Remember this discussion is about failing emissions.  The EPA wants to make sure that issues that can affect vehicle emissions get fixed.  States are responsible for implementation of the emissions testing pursuant to the EPA rules and regulations. States and areas within states may have different or no emissions testing.

 

In essence, there won't be a code that triggers the MIL that is not by definition "emissions related."   It's the regulations.  I've seen similar stuff (lack of knowledge on the regs, misunderstanding what is being said) on  EPA emissions certification of vehicles and their EPA fuel economy rating.

 

Incorrect. Transmission faults can set the CEL. ABS faults, Module Communication faults, IPC faults can set the CEL.

Shall I continue.  The FACT is any module is capable of setting the CEL without it being an emissions related fault.

 

Read this with your 10 dollar waste of money.

[plus 3 golfer]

Yes, faults related to the power train (transmission, communications and so forth) can be deemed "emissions related" because such faults can cause the vehicle to exceed emissions standards.  Again, by definition faults that set the MIL are  "emissions related."   Just read the Ford's shop manual which is where I pulled the quote above from.  Just to be clear MIL is commonly referred to as a CEL. Since this started with failing TX emissions, here's a quote from the TXDPS:  "Remember: The transmission is part of the vehicle's power train, so a transmission problem will turn on the MIL and can cause the vehicle to exceed emissions standards."

 

Yes, as far as reading detailed DTC that further define the issue, code readers may not scan all modules.  But, there should be a manufacturers' enhanced code stored in the PCM for the issue like a code in the P17XX range for a transmission problem. AFAIK, a code must be stored in the PCM if the MIL is set.   I'm not aware of any change to that requirement of OBDII.  

 

The benefit of a high priced code reader to most is virtually zero because they aren't going to be able to fix the issue anyways.   A less expensive OBDII code reader may not give as much info but it will give the owner an idea of the component / system that set the MIL.

 

 

 

[drdiesel1]

Yes, faults related to the power train (transmission, communications and so forth) can be deemed "emissions related" because such faults can cause the vehicle to exceed emissions standards.  Again, by definition faults that set the MIL are  "emissions related."   Just read the Ford's shop manual which is where I pulled the quote above from.  Just to be clear MIL is commonly referred to as a CEL. Since this started with failing TX emissions, here's a quote from the TXDPS:  "Remember: The transmission is part of the vehicle's power train, so a transmission problem will turn on the MIL and can cause the vehicle to exceed emissions standards."

 

Yes, as far as reading detailed DTC that further define the issue, code readers may not scan all modules.  But, there should be a manufacturers' enhanced code stored in the PCM for the issue like a code in the P17XX range for a transmission problem. AFAIK, a code must be stored in the PCM if the MIL is set.   I'm not aware of any change to that requirement of OBDII.  

 

The benefit of a high priced code reader to most is virtually zero because they aren't going to be able to fix the issue anyways.   A less expensive OBDII code reader may not give as much info but it will give the owner an idea of the component / system that set the MIL.

Incorrect, again.  Just not so and you just don't/won't/can't get it.

 

An IPC com error won't cause an emissions related problem. Same with a trans shift indicator fault, but they can

both cause the MIL/CEL to be activated. An ABS com fault with the PCM can do the same, but it won't cause an

emission failure.  You are misinformed and keep repeating the same misinformation, like it's some how gonna

magically change. It won't and never will. Not all MIL/CEL activations are emissions related.

 

Again, incorrect. If the cheap code reader can't read the code, how will it help anyone? I explained this

already, but you still aren't able to accept the facts. If the crappy reader is blind to the DTC, it shows no

codes stored, but the light is still on. WHY?????  Because it can't read the DTC and is a useless POS!

Edited January 22, 2015 by drdiesel1

[plus 3 golfer]

Incorrect, again.  Just not so and you just don't/won't/can't get it.

 

An IPC com error won't cause an emissions related problem. Same with a trans shift indicator fault, but they can

both cause the MIL/CEL to be activated. An ABS com fault with the PCM can do the same, but it won't cause an

emission failure.  You are misinformed and keep repeating the same misinformation, like it's some how gonna

magically change. It won't and never will. Not all MIL/CEL activations are emissions related.

 

Again, incorrect. If the cheap code reader can't read the code, how will it help anyone? I explained this

already, but you still aren't able to accept the facts. If the crappy reader is blind to the DTC, it shows no

codes stored, but the light is still on. WHY?????  Because it can't read the DTC and is a useless POS!

It's clear to me you don't understand / comprehend what is being said.  I can't make it any clearer. A communication error can be an emission related problem because without communications there is no way of knowing if components and systems pass.   Your credibility continues to fall IMO.  I'm done with this and won't respond anymore. The readers can decide what they want to believe.  Here's what Ford says with my highlighting and note in red pointing to the applicable text. ;)

 

[drdiesel1]

It's clear to me you don't understand / comprehend what is being said.  I can't make it any clearer. A communication error can be an emission related problem because without communications there is no way of knowing if components and systems pass.   Your credibility continues to fall IMO.  I'm done with this and won't respond anymore. The readers can decide what they want to believe.  Here's what Ford says with my highlighting and note in red pointing to the applicable text. ;)

 

No, it's not and you are still stuck believing it. Enjoy!

Your generic information is as useless as your generic code reader.

Edited January 23, 2015 by drdiesel1